Scalability / Viability of Knife build?

[PhamTrinli]

I am currently playing a thief melee build with knives and I just got to crossroad city and am starting to see some alarming damage falloff relative to how effectively I can kill enemies.

Is a pure knife/stabby build not viable end-game? Or does it just struggle mid-game?

Here is my build (at level 9)

https://underrail.info/build/?CQcKCAMFAwYAAAA3Nzc3GS0AAB4AAAAeAAAAAC0tMTYdAAZB

[Zeem]

Level 9 might be a little too low for Rail Crossing.
Why didn't you dump Perception and Strength? The former gives zero benefits to melee builds and the latter only marginally improves knife damage. Ideally you'd want to max out Dexterity, since it gives you more crit chance (which knives absolutely rely on), lowers AP cost of your attacks (since knives are considered light weapons) and improves your melee skill scaling.
The lack of actual attack feats is the biggest problem here. Expose Weakness is pretty much mandatory on any melee weapon outside of sledges and sometimes spears, Taste For Blood is a massive multiplier for your damage and Fancy Footwork allows you to retreat behind cover after attacking a target - a must for a Constitution and high Agility type of character.

[Karina]

Knifes are pretty good, but you will have issues fighting enemies with high physical protection. Also, i was told that Expedition is very unfriendly to melee only builds - so consider leveling up throwing or taking versatility and using pistols. If you go with pistols - that will open up Gun Fu for you. Honestely, bullet pistols are better melee weapon then knifes.

[King Fossil]

What Zeem said, except you're also missing ripper. Knives are crit reliant so ripper is a big boost. Except you don't have the will for it and it's probably too late to get it now. Not with dexterity already lower than it should be. Sad times.

[King Fossil]

Also get some throwing. Grenades are really strong as long as you're not on dominating. And they're still pretty strong even then. You have good dexterity so it's not like that's a problem.

[ptirodaktill]

For some reasons i can`t use underbuilder, so i just post it here.
3 STR, PER, CON . Useless stats for you, dump them.
5 Will for Reaper perc
6 Int for Weaponsmith, Cheap shots and premeditation
10 AGI for Blitz and MP
10 Dex and max dex .
Start with Expertise and Recklessness , then add Opportunist and work toward mobility percs. Skip Cripling strike and Cut-troath they are not worth the effort.
I used temporal manipulation+Trought control as PSI support . Initialy, with 10 Agi i wanted to add doge/eva for build, but ended up point starved so skipped them.

[Karina]

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

For some reasons i can`t use underbuilder, so i just post it here.
3 STR, PER, CON . Useless stats for you, dump them.
5 Will for Reaper perc
6 Int for Weaponsmith, Cheap shots and premeditation
10 AGI for Blitz and MP
10 Dex and max dex .
Start with Expertise and Recklessness , then add Opportunist and work toward mobility percs. Skip Cripling strike and Cut-troath they are not worth the effort.
I used temporal manipulation+Trought control as PSI support . Initialy, with 10 Agi i wanted to add doge/eva for build, but ended up point starved so skipped them.

Con is never a useless stats, agility itself is overrated for mp. You only need 7 agility for fancy footwork and even that is not mandatory. You can go an opposite way and be a beefcake instead - there are good leather armors in the game and mobility can come from good boots.

Strength will let you wear serrated metal armor - with it you rack up Taste for Blood and Infected Wounds stacks much faster. Also high quality super steel armor with sturdy vest will let you survive things you shouldnt, even as a conlet, even without additional plates.

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by Esteban Failsmore:

Con is never a useless stats, agility itself is overrated for mp. You only need 7 agility for fancy footwork and even that is not mandatory.

Going 8 for uncanny dodge is useful if you ask me. There are a lot of scary melee enemies in the game and you can't stay out of range and shoot like ranged can. Being able to automatically dodge a whole turn of deathstalker or whatever attacks is nice.

[ptirodaktill]

Metal armor is nice, but with high str you probably want to dump knife , grab that Balor hammer and smash stuff.

[PhamTrinli]

which is ultimately better overall protection? 0% armor penalty and maxed evade/dodge with nimble? or abandon evade/dodge completely and just maximize your armor protection through gear and conditioning perk?

[Zeem]

Best protection is being out of enemy attack range/breaking LoS. Dodge/evasion is only really useful if you invest at least a bit into Constitution (7 should be the sweet spot) and have some armor to be able to tank the attacks do hit you. Your best bet as a knifer would be to lean into stealth and mobility and try to take out enemies one by one or in small groups.

[Karina]

Originally posted by PhamTrinli:

which is ultimately better overall protection? 0% armor penalty and maxed evade/dodge with nimble? or abandon evade/dodge completely and just maximize your armor protection through gear and conditioning perk?

With evasion/dodge you either dont take damage at all or you take so much damage that you die. Especially if you go with 3 con. You should not expect to survive for long with just evasion, eventually you will get hit and die. As guy above said - you best bet is to kill enemies faster then they can kill you. Also, evasion/dodge eats up A LOT of skill points.

When it comes to heavy armor - your choices are either leather or metal. Keep in mind that you can reduce armor penalty with perks and maintain some degree of evasion/dodge. Needless to say, you need CON to make any use from heavy armor. Ideally 10.

Metal provides best protection possible against mechanical attacks and decent protection against energy and heat, but its very heavy and needs at least 8 strength to be worn. Metal armor has the potential of making you almost immune to physical damage, but dont except to run anywhere. Metal armor also can mount spikes or serrated blades that aid you in melee combat.

Good leather armor does not exist until mid game. Best leather armor requires you going into DLC areas - end game basically. Its not as protective as metal but its much lighter and anyone can wear it. Certain leather armors can be almost as heavy and protective as metal while not having any strength requirements - its more like a bone armor at this point.

[ptirodaktill]

Originally posted by PhamTrinli:

which is ultimately better overall protection? 0% armor penalty and maxed evade/dodge with nimble? or abandon evade/dodge completely and just maximize your armor protection through gear and conditioning perk?

The best protection is to kill/disable/immobilise enemies and make sure nothing can even attack you. Heave armor work till some W2C sniper land a aimed shot on you for 2.5k dmg or 8.6mm AR burst you down. Doge/evasion is nice and all till some trough control boy unload a few crits directly in your head.
Generaly tincans feel nice and safe against crawlers/burrowers/light weapons stuff like this but once big guns and psy get intro action your armor mean nothing.
Doge boys can ignore most ranged dmg, but once psy come in play you can`t doge. And a unlucky hit from sledgehammer would kill you for sure.
Pseudo-spacial projection can turn any character intro some sort of doge if you invest in trough control, have a innervation slot for it and AP/mana to cost it in first place.

[Zeem]

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

Originally posted by PhamTrinli:

which is ultimately better overall protection? 0% armor penalty and maxed evade/dodge with nimble? or abandon evade/dodge completely and just maximize your armor protection through gear and conditioning perk?

The best protection is to kill/disable/immobilise enemies and make sure nothing can even attack you. Heave armor work till some W2C sniper land a aimed shot on you for 2.5k dmg or 8.6mm AR burst you down. Doge/evasion is nice and all till some trough control boy unload a few crits directly in your head.
Generaly tincans feel nice and safe against crawlers/burrowers/light weapons stuff like this but once big guns and psy get intro action your armor mean nothing.
Doge boys can ignore most ranged dmg, but once psy come in play you can`t doge. And a unlucky hit from sledgehammer would kill you for sure.
Pseudo-spacial projection can turn any character intro some sort of doge if you invest in trough control, have a innervation slot for it and AP/mana to cost it in first place.

There are no enemies using W2C ammo outside of Joe De Pacino and Protectorate Dreadnoughts.