Stealth Instant Fail?

[Lampda]

My stealth is at 70, (higher when using stealth items)
I always get an instant fail at stealth when I go against coil spiders near Pheak and sometimes around lunatics and others..

Works for some, doesn't for others.

Is this a bug or are their particular things within your equipment that need to be used/removed when going stealth?

[King Fossil]

That means your stealth is too low. Spiders have really high detection so they're hard to hide from. Gotta get it higher.

[Qiox]

I think you need at least 175 to 200 to avoid instant fails around coil spiders. Maybe more.

[tymon2701]

I managed to find the exact stealth number you need for coil spiders: - it's 116 effective stealth

[Serendipitous]

Originally posted by gh0stwizard:

Stealth must be maxed or skipped. In the end of the game, even Stealth over 300 does not working all the time.

Completely wrong. On many characters i get by with ~50 points in stealth, it allows you to sneak by plenty of things or at least get better position for engagement.

Game can be difficult enough for new players even without getting bad advice. Let's not make it harder than it should be.

[manystarredcloak]

150 effective stealth is good enough to allow avoiding or gain advantage by alpha striking in most of encounters, even in dominating. You can also add a cloaking device to boost it to 200+ on a few more difficult to stealth encounters

[Tamiore]

Yea, 200+ stealth scores are mostly for just ridiculous ♥♥♥♥ (like looting faction bases dry without anyone noticing).
For "normal" gameplay (scouting on enemies that you intend to kill, etc), 150-200 effective is sufficient.

[Serendipitous]

Originally posted by gh0stwizard:

In a case where you may sneak to start a fight, you also may just enter combat mode, sprint, do your job. Ofc, you may play with AGI 3 and put several points to Stealth, just because you have not the Sprint feat.
There are only a few cases where Stealth is really, really useful. So, you could not survive otherwise.

No, that's so wrong i am starting to have a suspicion that you intentionally trying to mislead people. First of all there are plenty of actions that you can't do in tb mode, second, if enemy notices you in tb, you just gonna start a fight, but without benefit of good alpha strike since you already wasted plenty of AP and MP to move. Stealth allows for much better engagements than turning on TB mode from beyond enemy sight and running towards them. That is also a waste of Sprint that could've been used on something more useful.

Just because you are bad at using stealth, doesn't mean it's useless. Git gud.

[Tamiore]

Originally posted by gh0stwizard:

Originally posted by carashi:

<snip> without benefit of good alpha strike since you already wasted plenty of AP and MP to move. Stealth allows for much better engagements <snip>

I would like to hear real problems from others, like Stealth mode without Interloper feat do zero all MP, even with best tabi boots which grants you around 70-80 MP without Sprint. Let's wait others.

Fundamentally, it's simple: if you are ok with reloading every so often when caught out of stealth at the wrong moment, you don't actually need stealth. If you want to keep the reloads to the minimum, stealth is almost obligatory.

[Tamiore]

Originally posted by gh0stwizard:

Originally posted by Tamiore:

Fundamentally, it's simple: if you are ok with reloading every so often when caught out of stealth at the wrong moment, you don't actually need stealth. If you want to keep the reloads to the minimum, stealth is almost obligatory.

True, or you may enter TB mode before looking each corner: you lose nothing.

There isn't really an "or" here. If you enter TB mode before looking around the corner and an enemy sees you, the only thing you've got is an equivalent of having won the initiative. You are still forced into combat and you will still have to reload if you wanted something other than entering combat then and there with an initiative advantage.

[Tamiore]

Originally posted by gh0stwizard:

Originally posted by Tamiore:

There isn't really an "or" here. If you enter TB mode before looking around the corner and an enemy sees you, the only thing you've got is an equivalent of having won the initiative. You are still forced into combat and you will still have to reload if you wanted something other than entering combat then and there with an initiative advantage.

True.

Anyway, my main point is: instead of 70 Stealth it is better to have 70 Chemistry to make IV tier grenades. Especially I would like to see in eyes of a (wo)man, who will understood this at DC: being with 70 Stealth and 0 Chemistry. Which leads to waiting for updating stores many hours. BUT wait, you could safely look around of corner!!! Then, running across whole DC and getting funny "eye of hell". Multiple times, I guarantee.

This is exactly what I got after completing the game at first time. Still, I see how people suggesting their builds with 80 Stealth and by some reason 50 Chemistry and telling that's a best build for them. LMAO.

Again, it burns down to reloads:
If you want to minimize them, high-tier grenades are NOT exactly your best friends.

[happybjorn]

I don't understand the obsession some people have in treating stealth like it's a combat skill. It gives access to more areas (and more loot), more options for completing quests, more options for avoiding combat and saves time.

Yes, some feats give increased combat effectiveness based on stealth, and yes, it gives a powerful tactical advantage, but you could take away all the combat stuff and it would still be good.

[manystarredcloak]

Originally posted by happybjorn:

I don't understand the obsession some people have in treating stealth like it's a combat skill. It gives access to more areas (and more loot), more options for completing quests, more options for avoiding combat and saves time.

Yeah, I managed to sneak past the bunch of goliaths near DC elevator with stealth. Trying to go toe on toe with them is not impossible, but will cost you some bear traps/gas grenades/molotov and they keeps respawning.

[Voroff]

Originally posted by Tamiore:

Yea, 200+ stealth scores are mostly for just ridiculous ♥♥♥♥ (like looting faction bases dry without anyone noticing).
For "normal" gameplay (scouting on enemies that you intend to kill, etc), 150-200 effective is sufficient.

At the Institute, to pass the Tunneler and see what's on the other side : how much stealth is needed ?

Originally posted by manystarredcloak:

Yeah, I managed to sneak past the bunch of goliaths near DC elevator with stealth. Trying to go toe on toe with them is not impossible, but will cost you some bear traps/gas grenades/molotov and they keeps respawning.

Managed ? Try putting a TNT in a corner, and stealth yourself in another corner : all of the things will go investigate the square where the noise happened. Just dont be in the way and you'll be fine passing them.

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by Voroff:

Managed ? Try putting a TNT in a corner, and stealth yourself in another corner : all of the things will go investigate the square where the noise happened. Just dont be in the way and you'll be fine passing them.

Beetles don't investigate noise so that doesn't work.

[Voroff]

Originally posted by King Fossil:

Originally posted by Voroff:

Managed ? Try putting a TNT in a corner, and stealth yourself in another corner : all of the things will go investigate the square where the noise happened. Just dont be in the way and you'll be fine passing them.

Beetles don't investigate noise so that doesn't work.

So much for me then.