[spoilers] Debriefing of Ice Tower

[Voroff]

Hello all derrailled :)

About the Utility tower also know as the Ice Tower :
first, a bug : there are 3 containers that will always be marked as non-searched when you enter their map (one barrel on the second "open" area / two file lockers on the magasin of the lowest level. The problem is that one of the filer lockers always contain loot when you go back to it (go to the lowest level and pick the loot, go to the roof or out to Marty, go back to the locker : loot is again here). I my case, its an [Aluminised cloth of 119 qual], have 3 of them now. If i want i have an endless source of ... that thing.



Then, the tower itself, i feel i missed something vital, because for me the journey was not just hard, but harduous like a death walk; while i enjoyed the exploration, the new mecanics, the new graphics and the feel of the snow, the ending was akin to an abusive relationship. The basis is not to stand in the frozen gaz, right ? Even using and abusing the combat system to run throught a big patch of gaz for the free "turn", or throught the outdoors sections. Is there anything else ?

Because the first time i tried, i of course rapidly backed off, underequipped as i was.

Came back with some coal/lighter assigned to a quick-slot, a custom Bison boots and armor, both with extra cold insulation, the metathermic fire aura and food 15% cold resist. This time is, after a gruelling journey, got to the top. On the way in looted everything, murdered everything that was a threat to humans, even "solved" the triple lockers rooms with a wild guess and got a modicum of stange medication, why not, because while doing all that i was drained of health items and ammo just to advance, level after level. Then the boss ...

The boss ... is much harder than it have any rights to be, even if you dont fight him at all xD Chilled all along, tried and tried and tried : A) not enought ammo left to finish even if i still have a good stack in the beginning of the battle B) Chill status is not fun at all C) the suppression of combat mode have a lot of effects on the battle D) Too much ice ? No, that is ... excpected. But that durable ? I'm level 25 and use pistols of every kind, i still have to shoot one block of ice 2 to 3 times with the heaviest hitter in my arsenal to break it. E) the 2 lures are total BS, when i get one i have to go to the OTHER side of the room because the two bodies near just cycle the lure between them. I loose just 1 second but 4 times each body until moving on ... and im dead, not fun.


Ok, i go back to home to lick my wounds ... craft another Bison leather - infused this time (thank the dudes from the wiki or i would have not known the fact that infused bison immunize you against things) - now i cant be frozen, chilled, a starting cold resistance ...
... more coal, more AMMO. My energy shield + 3 others backup shields, fully charged, ready to be equipped.
And even that prepared, i lagged and genuenly ragequit one time.
Finally, i did it and triomphed. Got a feat, climb back down, regrouped thoughts, read on the forums, read about a ... ghost that after the boss battle have a dialog option to transport you to the entrance or something ? Got back in there to explore that "ghost" i didnt see, found a 3 XP curio collectible instead - no spirit, no more lore.
I "triomphed" ... really by the skin of my teeths. And i dont like that fact, is there a mecanic i totally ignored or something ? One could be able to win with no infused bison leather specifically i imagine, by playing smart, fast and acurrately, but i just dont see how, as even with infused and all i lagged so hard. The chill, the boss wailling on you ... just how one do that without bashing his head in the wall ?
And for the last thing, the last Ice blocks from the boss battle stays on the map ? What is that BS ? :D To get to the exit i had to bulldozer a lot more, getting some useless cold from time to time damages even with the fire aura metathermic thing ... the battle is over, but i'm still bleeding out ressources to heal, to break blocs, to cast psymagic, to relit the fireplace ... thats some BS, here you can't disagree with me :p => That's kinda the same feeling when you win a random battle with a bit of luck, but are poisonned/bleeding/beartrapped, near death, and sadly the healing is still on cooldown for more turns that you'll survive. Kinda but worse.


----------- So ...

- The last platform, from where Demise comes, i feel its missing something, some visual storytelling piece, more than "Demise just coalesce here to enter the tower" and there is just a nice view but nothing else to see, at least a big blood stain on wall, a body kneeling in a prayer or whatever to "top off the ice cake". At least i didnt see anything more than a cliff face facing the terrasse, maybe i'm missing something ? The big chunky metal pipe near that exit at the top invites me to climb even higher ...
- The curio, i completely passed it when i clamb back - and now im thinking about the fact i never used the chute in the end, always by stairs but i just wont go back just to try it ... :/
- The bug with the endless aluminized cloth.
The two last should be fixed, the first is just a feeling that just ONE more thing can be crammed into the end of the tower to wrap it up. Otherwise, it was a blast even if a slog to go throught the tower and explore what is underrail some more, until the last level where i died and died and frustration mounting, died some more. The last battle is creative and original, that thing cant be understated ^^


And, finally ... i usually dont question game design, but here i have three (open) questions.
1) Why so f*cking hard ? xD
2) One of the bodies riddles is about map coordinates. I dont get why "north" (slavic folklore maybe ?); another of the bodies want to have its feet removed from a cold surface - what is the logic for those two ? I solve them by bruteforce, but i'd like to understand the logic behing solving them.
3) But really. Why. Why in all h*lls are the minions spirits or whatever cold specters (aimlessly wandering the last levels and inflicting the debuff on contact, you see the ones i speak of ?), why are they ... not human ? I mean, crawlers, ok why not, but the ... ... i mean ... industrial bot ... cold ... ghost ... Industrial ... bot ... ghost ... WHAT ? EXPLAIN THAT ONE !!!

... if you can, because apparitions and robots kinda dont ... mix ? Please help ? And if you can't explain the last one, what are YOUR thoughts on this original dongeon ?

[Tamiore]

I finally got to exploring the Ice/Utility Tower more thoroughly the other day.

My thoughts, in no particular order:

- It's less about high-quality equipment and more about understanding the mechanics so that you bring the right equipment, even if it's pretty average in quality.

- { Ancient rathound leather armor + Insulating Foam Padding + Aluminised Cloth } was completely adequate.

- I'd argue that the "Aluminised Cloth" in your armor is actually MORE important than cold resistance/DT, as that allows you to stand in fire you created and take both no damage from fire (because Aluminised Cloth gives fire DT) and no damage from cold (because fire itself keeps the cryo gas away and constantly removes all stacks of cold-related debuffs).

- Thermodynamic Destabilization works on ice blocks just fine.

- Exothermic Aura = fire on demand + effective immunity to most cold effects for the duration. More convenient than Molotov Cocktails, too.

- I haven't seen any ghosts (outside of the boss itself). Might have something to do with the fact that I didn't kill any of the frozen animals/bots on the lower levels.

- The boss is largely trivialized by bringing a shield with really good low frequency shielding, as that simply deflects it's cryo shards away.

- Having "Doctor" feat tells you how to treat each "victim" in plain text. No guesswork required.

- "Shattered Will" is applied based on proximity to boss, rather than just the melee attacks.

- The final part forcing you OUT of combat mode means you can both recharge the shield and use bandage as much as you want.

- Yet another dungeon where psychosis psi builds are at an outright disadvantage, because most things you actually want to damage are immune to crits.

Originally posted by Voroff:

And, finally ... i usually dont question game design, but here i have three (open) questions.
1) Why so f*cking hard ? xD

Not really, once you understand the mechanics. I'll agree this is probably the hardest dungeon in the game, but it's not super-hard per se.

Originally posted by Voroff:

2) One of the bodies riddles is about map coordinates. I dont get why "north" (slavic folklore maybe ?); another of the bodies want to have its feet removed from a cold surface - what is the logic for those two ? I solve them by bruteforce, but i'd like to understand the logic behing solving them.

The logic is explained with "Doctor" feat in plain text. "The north" specifically works because the victim is asking for fresh air, and north is where the balcony (leading to "fresh air") is. This also somewhat answers your other question about the balcony.

Originally posted by Voroff:

3) But really. Why. Why in all h*lls are the minions spirits or whatever cold specters (aimlessly wandering the last levels and inflicting the debuff on contact, you see the ones i speak of ?), why are they ... not human ? I mean, crawlers, ok why not, but the ... ... i mean ... industrial bot ... cold ... ghost ... Industrial ... bot ... ghost ... WHAT

As I haven't even seen them, I'd venture a guess it's just whatever you've killed on the lowered levels. I guess bots have some kind of dim psychic presence as well. Not exactly uncommon in sci-fi.

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by Tamiore:

- I haven't seen any ghosts (outside of the boss itself). Might have something to do with the fact that I didn't kill any of the frozen animals/bots on the lower levels.

That's interesting. Must remember to test that next time.

[Voroff]

I did it with a second chara down the line, still not fan, but there are less mystery and "did i do something wrong" feeling. When you know what you're doing it's more streamlined, but the whole game is after all : metaknowldge helps.

Originally posted by Tamiore:

I finally got to exploring the Ice/Utility Tower more thoroughly the other day. (...)
- It's less about high-quality equipment and more about understanding the mechanics so that you bring the right equipment,(...){ Ancient rathound leather armor + Insulating Foam Padding + Aluminised Cloth } was completely adequate. (...) "Aluminised Cloth" in your armor is actually MORE important (...)

Yep, i didnt mentionned it but aluminized everything overalls are the way to go. Still, infused bison armor + antigel padding are a good safety net, the cold DT itself is fun but overall if the debuff stacks ... and it stacks quick enoguht to be worried about molotov's cooldown.
Rage-inducing with the end of the boss fight when you have a whole map of ice blocks to clear. Even more if you're not melee, as you have to wait for the attack animation to end before starting a new one : with the right timming, your ranged chara can stay almost idle :)

Melee bashes as fast as you can clik on the other hand. And its far more efficient to have 4 melee weapons to swap than wasting 500 bullets on inanimate objects : "anyone willing to go into Ice Tower", consider putting 10 points into melee to raise the hit chance to the max and have a easier time manoeuvering around.

Originally posted by Tamiore:

- The final part forcing you OUT of combat mode means you can both recharge the shield and use bandage as much as you want. (...) The logic is explained with "Doctor" feat in plain text. "The north" specifically works because the victim is asking for fresh air, and north is where the balcony (leading to "fresh air") is. This also somewhat answers your other question about the balcony.

Yep, that why i brought 4 charged shields at the end (3 taken on some randos) : why recharge when you can hot-swap ? :D // Ho, ok, thanks.

Originally posted by Tamiore:

- I haven't seen any ghosts (outside of the boss itself). Might have something to do with the fact that I didn't kill any of the frozen animals/bots on the lower levels.

With the second chara i didnt kill much (just what was in the way of loot, because the loot from the bodies was not worth the confrontation itself), and still got some wraith-bots homing to me to inflict me a single stack of debuff, in the higher levels of the tower. You may be right still, need more datas to confirm or infirm. There are unfrozen crawlers at the very entrance, isnt, do they count ?

Anyway, i'm taking every guess on why robot-ghosts : psionic influence, cold-induced madness, old shrooms that were not meant for eating, influence of "the brew", guilt about killing frozen animals/bots ... i'm taken anything that can make sense :D Except for "robots have a psychic presence, thanks" :p We're not talking about asimov's works, but industrial bots with flamethrowers for arms (for ... reasons) :p

[Tamiore]

Originally posted by Voroff:

There are unfrozen crawlers at the very entrance, isnt, do they count ?

I didn't kill anything in the tower, frozen or not. Spooders at the entrance aren't in your way anyway.

Originally posted by Voroff:

Anyway, i'm taking every guess on why robot-ghosts : psionic influence, cold-induced madness, old shrooms that were not meant for eating, influence of "the brew", guilt about killing frozen animals/bots ... i'm taken anything that can make sense :D Except for "robots have a psychic presence, thanks" :p We're not talking about asimov's works, but industrial bots with flamethrowers for arms (for ... reasons) :p

I mean, why would robot-ghosts be any different from crawler-ghosts or spider-ghosts?

There is no real indication in the game that psionic phenomena can't interact with robots.

And neither there is any indication that those ghosts are not born from character's own subconscious mind (or something like that), which also wouldn't really treat "memories of robots" differently from "memories of spiders".

As for "robots having a psychic presence", I give you RimWorld lore.

[Voroff]

Originally posted by Tamiore:

As for "robots having a psychic presence", I give you RimWorld lore.

I'm rolling with 40K Angry Marines Lore; there are enought Deamon engines and Abominable Intelligence to be happy. Smashing-happy. But in this universe ? Beh, we dont even know if we're on Earth, but i'm kinda sure the rusty buckets of bolts (edit : those from Biocorp) are not psy-active or sentient or whatev' :D

[JohnMcHobo]

For question number 1)
I guess its hard because its completely optional and to evoke the feeling of dread a mountain climber might experience while his ressources dwindle and the way back becomes as lethal as the way ever further up.

The idea to make the cold itself the greatest enemy also adds to the atmosphere of it all.

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by King Fossil:

Originally posted by Tamiore:

- I haven't seen any ghosts (outside of the boss itself). Might have something to do with the fact that I didn't kill any of the frozen animals/bots on the lower levels.

That's interesting. Must remember to test that next time.

Tested, confirming this seems correct. Didn't kill anything, didn't get any ghosts.
It's not a huge deal either way since the ghosts don't really do much, but it's still something. If you want to farm the frozen animals it's pretty simple to clear the tower and then go back to the bottom levels to kill them anyway.

[Voroff]

Originally posted by King Fossil:

Originally posted by King Fossil:

That's interesting. Must remember to test that next time.

Tested, confirming this seems correct. Didn't kill anything, didn't get any ghosts.
It's not a huge deal either way since the ghosts don't really do much, but it's still something. If you want to farm the frozen animals it's pretty simple to clear the tower and then go back to the bottom levels to kill them anyway.

Ho, thanks for looking into it; nice to know, even if as you said that dont change much in the end.

Ok, so robot-ghosts are somehow cannon xD