I wouldn't recommend the game and here is why.

[Susdowner]

Honestly this game is amazing in everything but the gameplay. The world of this game and art around it really good the lore is really good and this game boosts on of the best and most fun crafting systems ive seen around but its game i really can't honestly recommend. There are two major problems with the game in my prospective and they are combat and replayablity
Ill start with replayability because its the easiest to explain. Imagine skyrim's helegen sequence but its 8 to 8+ hours and you get this games intro before it lets you roam freely around the world, its an insanely bad design decision and one of the reasons i don't see me coming back to this often.
As for gameplay it feels like it takes bad aspects of others games combining them hoping to make something great but ending at a mess making combat mostly feel like a repetitive cycle where you have to grind out a victory instead of being able to deal with things as they come , All enemys are fallout levels of bullet spongy and you fight them in a system similar to Xcom games. Death has no real consequences other then repetition making almost all of combat a boring grind rather then a triumphant stride or a story of avoiding death. and the different ways you have to deal with situations as different types of characters are pretty limited. And Mines, yes mines. Honestly they only make gameplay worse, you can see them through high perception or memorize their location through meta-gameing and they only make the game worse and more repetitive. Its game that really wants to be hardcore but in a misguided way which makes it boring and grindy instead of hard.
I really want to like this game, the world is amazing to explore and the writing is good there are a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of places to visit once you are done with the tedious intro mission, but the cost just in time wasted to get there feels too high.

As a hineside message i only played the game in the normal difficulty and highest difficulty and had a few attempts at perma death that did not go too well.
And i mostly play traditional rougelike and immersive sim games, some strategy games and some rpgs.

[Thrax]

I feel you.
It's hard to recommend this game, but it's a really good game.
The only part I speed run is the start. The Depot mission can get old fast, but it really does act as a build check. Normally I can just throw builds at the wall and clear it somewhat quickly, but that's just knowledge of the system.

I had to try this on 4 different occasions, in 45 minute intervals before I got hooked.

Your review is solid.

[Susdowner]

Originally posted by Princess Soap:

I feel you.
It's hard to recommend this game, but it's a really good game.
The only part I speed run is the start. The Depot mission can get old fast, but it really does act as a build check. Normally I can just throw builds at the wall and clear it somewhat quickly, but that's just knowledge of the system.

I had to try this on 4 different occasions, in 45 minute intervals before I got hooked.

Your review is solid.

Thanks dude, just posted it here to see if anyone else feels the same way or if i am just crazy

[AerinSwift]

Writing is really very good, especially for such a battle-oriented game.

[Qiox]

Replayability is among the highest I've ever seen in an RPG, hence my 1100+ hours. Playing with a different build makes the combat feel completely different.
- AR Tin Can
- 30 attacks per turn with 400+ movement points time monk
- spear throwing shield user
- cave wizard
- stealthy trapper with xbow
- any sledgehammer variant

Are just a few examples of builds that make it feel like you are playing a completely different game.

An experienced player can finish the depot A quest and unlock the world in 3 to 4 hours on average. You can rush it even faster. Tthe fastest I've seen for just the Depot A section itself is under 5 minutes.

And thanks to the random low level dungeons that may or may not be there in each new game, and the above point of how much a different build changes up the feel of the combat, the beginning never feels old repetitive to me, at all. Also, you can actually change a lot about the order in which you do things before Junkyard which helps avoid any feeling of repetitiveness.

And in my opinion, not playing Oddity mode xp also helps considerably since you are not tied to memorized fixed locations of oddities for your leveling. Playing Classic makes changing things up much easier to do.

I find your description of the combat as a bit strange. Saying you are limited in how you deal with enemies, even on different builds, is literally the exact opposite of the actual situation. I am inclined to think that you have discovered some limited way of approaching things, and are fixated on the idea that that's all there is. Do yourself a favor and open yourself up to the possibility that you have not thought of every possibility. Because you certainly would not describe the situation the way you do if you actually were aware of all the options.


Every trap in the game can be spotted by a character with 3 Perception who has the Paranoia Feat and is wearing a pair of Motion Detecting Goggles. And nearly every single one can be spotted without the Feat, while wearing the Goggles, if you pause for a few seconds in new areas to give yourself a few dice rolls to detect them.

There's one player who likes to stream attempts at permadeath runs on Dominating difficulty. I've seen him get into the 20s, although not sure, what his actual pb is. But this game is certainly not designed with that playstyle in mind.

[Chad "The King" ThunderCuck]

my big problem with this game is how few skill points it throws your way, making it absolutely mandatory for you to min/max whatever kind of build you want, and if you make a single mistake on skill or talent placement, youre screwed for the entire game. that and the gang of enemies right outside the starting area, who start combat by each lobbing a HE grenade at your face every round, regardless of where you are. that and the terrible "barter" system, that forces me to constantly leave shops and go back to them until they are buying items i have.

Originally posted by Qiox:

You can rush it even faster. Tthe fastest I've seen for just the Depot A section itself is under 5 minutes.

i would love to see that. i dont even think its possible to get to the depot in 5 minutes, much less finish the quest, thanks to the games abysmally slow move speed and no out of combat speed adjustment.

[NightmareGats]

I love this game, but the problem is that you actually need to meta game a lot, search stuff and ask people outside of the game or else your build will be trash and you wont do anything. The part outside of combat is awesome, but the combat is very complicated, you need to make your build before you even start the game.
The beginning is too long, but it works for the game plot. But id prefer if it was like fallout 1. you make your char the youre already playing the game with everything open to explore.

[Qiox]

Originally posted by Chad "The King" Thundercock:

my big problem with this game is how few skill points it throws your way, making it absolutely mandatory for you to min/max whatever kind of build you want, and if you make a single mistake on skill or talent placement, youre screwed for the entire game. that and the gang of enemies right outside the starting area, who start combat by each lobbing a HE grenade at your face every round, regardless of where you are. that and the terrible "barter" system, that forces me to constantly leave shops and go back to them until they are buying items i have.

Originally posted by Qiox:

You can rush it even faster. Tthe fastest I've seen for just the Depot A section itself is under 5 minutes.

i would love to see that. i dont even think its possible to get to the depot in 5 minutes, much less finish the quest, thanks to the games abysmally slow move speed and no out of combat speed adjustment.

Just to make sure you did not misunderstand, I said "The Depot A section", not get there from the start of the game. Just the Depot A section itself, in under 5 minutes. They actually did it with zero combat by stealthing through to the drill part.


Gang right outside the starting area? You mean the higher level area off the train platform? Well, OP is upset the whole world is not open, and here you are complaining that you are not completely walled off from content too high level for you.

Just goes to prove that no solution will make everyone happy.

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by Chad "The King" Thundercock:

no out of combat speed adjustment.

Speedup outside combat got added in July 2019.

[Qiox]

Originally posted by NightmareGats:

I love this game, but the problem is that you actually need to meta game a lot, search stuff and ask people outside of the game or else your build will be trash and you wont do anything. The part outside of combat is awesome, but the combat is very complicated, you need to make your build before you even start the game.
The beginning is too long, but it works for the game plot. But id prefer if it was like fallout 1. you make your char the youre already playing the game with everything open to explore.

That's only true if you go in with the mindset that it is a game you should beat on your first try no matter what.

Back when it first came out there was no such third party resources for me to look up. I played, doing what I thought would work, and if it didn't I called it a loss and started over, knowing I would do better having learned from my mistakes.

That option is there for anyone who wants to come up with their own build. And there are those who even recently have posted that they beat it on their first try using their own build.

It is not impossible.

[Chad "The King" ThunderCuck]

Originally posted by Qiox:

Originally posted by Chad "The King" Thundercock:

my big problem with this game is how few skill points it throws your way, making it absolutely mandatory for you to min/max whatever kind of build you want, and if you make a single mistake on skill or talent placement, youre screwed for the entire game. that and the gang of enemies right outside the starting area, who start combat by each lobbing a HE grenade at your face every round, regardless of where you are. that and the terrible "barter" system, that forces me to constantly leave shops and go back to them until they are buying items i have.


i would love to see that. i dont even think its possible to get to the depot in 5 minutes, much less finish the quest, thanks to the games abysmally slow move speed and no out of combat speed adjustment.

Just to make sure you did not misunderstand, I said "The Depot A section", not get there from the start of the game. Just the Depot A section itself, in under 5 minutes. They actually did it with zero combat by stealthing through to the drill part.


Gang right outside the starting area? You mean the higher level area off the train platform? Well, OP is upset the whole world is not open, and here you are complaining that you are not completely walled off from content too high level for you.

Just goes to prove that no solution will make everyone happy.

ahh yup, i missread. thought you were saying it took 5 minutes-from the start of the game. i dunno if its higher level area or not. its literally just a single room with 1 entrance, and like 4-5 guys standing around a fire who lob grenades as though grenades are cheap enough that a person would waste them in a 5-1 fight. like 2-4 screens south of the area where the psi trainer is shooting rocks with psycic punches.

[Susdowner]

Originally posted by Qiox:

Replayability is among the highest I've ever seen in an RPG, hence my 1100+ hours. Playing with a different build makes the combat feel completely different.
- AR Tin Can
- 30 attacks per turn with 400+ movement points time monk
- spear throwing shield user
- cave wizard
- stealthy trapper with xbow
- any sledgehammer variant

Are just a few examples of builds that make it feel like you are playing a completely different game.

An experienced player can finish the depot A quest and unlock the world in 3 to 4 hours on average. You can rush it even faster. Tthe fastest I've seen for just the Depot A section itself is under 5 minutes.

And thanks to the random low level dungeons that may or may not be there in each new game, and the above point of how much a different build changes up the feel of the combat, the beginning never feels old repetitive to me, at all. Also, you can actually change a lot about the order in which you do things before Junkyard which helps avoid any feeling of repetitiveness.

And in my opinion, not playing Oddity mode xp also helps considerably since you are not tied to memorized fixed locations of oddities for your leveling. Playing Classic makes changing things up much easier to do.

I find your description of the combat as a bit strange. Saying you are limited in how you deal with enemies, even on different builds, is literally the exact opposite of the actual situation. I am inclined to think that you have discovered some limited way of approaching things, and are fixated on the idea that that's all there is. Do yourself a favor and open yourself up to the possibility that you have not thought of every possibility. Because you certainly would not describe the situation the way you do if you actually were aware of all the options.


Every trap in the game can be spotted by a character with 3 Perception who has the Paranoia Feat and is wearing a pair of Motion Detecting Goggles. And nearly every single one can be spotted without the Feat, while wearing the Goggles, if you pause for a few seconds in new areas to give yourself a few dice rolls to detect them.

There's one player who likes to stream attempts at permadeath runs on Dominating difficulty. I've seen him get into the 20s, although not sure, what his actual pb is. But this game is certainly not designed with that playstyle in mind.

Thanks for the advice but what i mean about combat being limited is that you can't really Flee combat or alter the combat enviroment too well

[Drokmon]

Originally posted by Chad "The King" Thundercock:

ahh yup, i missread. thought you were saying it took 5 minutes-from the start of the game. i dunno if its higher level area or not. its literally just a single room with 1 entrance, and like 4-5 guys standing around a fire who lob grenades as though grenades are cheap enough that a person would waste them in a 5-1 fight. like 2-4 screens south of the area where the psi trainer is shooting rocks with psycic punches.

Ahh, the room with Ironheads. Yeah, this area definitely seems out of place, considering that once the world opens up, most Ironheads are located north of SGS.

Maybe the game ought to add an automatic warning from the nearby guards about heading there. "Hey, mind yourself. That route leads to a cave network and there are rumours of Ironheads in the area. They're a tough lot, so steer clear."

[DaGuy]

Originally posted by BionicAscendant:

Thanks for the advice but what i mean about combat being limited is that you can't really Flee combat or alter the combat enviroment too well

But you can leave an area while in combat... takes 40 or so action points I believe but as long as it's a red square leading to another area, you can gtfo.

And have you even looked at traps, molotovs, caltrops, etc? You can alter the environment plenty with stealth and some pre-fight setup or just some good old fashioned fire; there's even forcefields.

How long have you played this for and are you sure you didn't just run right into high level areas? That never worked out well in fallout either.

[Susdowner]

Originally posted by T3hMerc:

Originally posted by BionicAscendant:

Thanks for the advice but what i mean about combat being limited is that you can't really Flee combat or alter the combat enviroment too well

But you can leave an area while in combat... takes 40 or so action points I believe but as long as it's a red square leading to another area, you can gtfo.

And have you even looked at traps, molotovs, caltrops, etc? You can alter the environment plenty with stealth and some pre-fight setup or just some good old fashioned fire; there's even forcefields.

How long have you played this for and are you sure you didn't just run right into high level areas? That never worked out well in fallout either.

I think at this point i have around 90 hours in the game. No ive used all of those before what i mean by altering the combat area is talking about it being more interactive. Like example if i throw a heat grenade in caves of qud its going warm up the surrounding area, if i do that repeatedly in a closed area the walls will begin to melt into lava.
if i use cryokinisis on toxic good and freeze it i can safely walk over it. (That kind of stuff) and running away in under rail is not easy its usually a last resource option not something you can use often and well. and even if you do you get punished with taking a lot of damage for running. Now that does make sense if you mid combat decide to run away especially with a ranged enemy, but doesn't make sense when you are trying to run from a melee and actions such as closing doors or moving z-levels cost soo much ap

[Thrax]

Originally posted by BionicAscendant:

Originally posted by T3hMerc:

But you can leave an area while in combat... takes 40 or so action points I believe but as long as it's a red square leading to another area, you can gtfo.

And have you even looked at traps, molotovs, caltrops, etc? You can alter the environment plenty with stealth and some pre-fight setup or just some good old fashioned fire; there's even forcefields.

How long have you played this for and are you sure you didn't just run right into high level areas? That never worked out well in fallout either.

I think at this point i have around 90 hours in the game. No ive used all of those before what i mean by altering the combat area is talking about it being more interactive. Like example if i throw a heat grenade in caves of qud its going warm up the surrounding area, if i do that repeatedly in a closed area the walls will begin to melt into lava.
if i use cryokinisis on toxic good and freeze it i can safely walk over it. (That kind of stuff) and running away in under rail is not easy its usually a last resource option not something you can use often and well. and even if you do you get punished with taking a lot of damage for running. Now that does make sense if you mid combat decide to run away especially with a ranged enemy, but doesn't make sense when you are trying to run from a melee and actions such as closing doors or moving z-levels cost soo much ap

Caves of Qud although similar in some regards gas two distinct differences.

It's a roguelike, leaning towards the classic style.
The entire environment of Caves of Qud is programmed to be open world and malleable. Meaning yes you can create unorthodox solutions to somewhat random dungeons and areas.

Underrail doesn't have that kind of interactivity, that was never planned. So you have to consider options and use some trial and error with terrain. The area behind the locked gates in Depot A by the junkyard has mutant dogs and full mutants. It's easy to flee the encounter, but if you come back from that same side, you lose iniaitive and the mutants will spank you depending on your build. But it's also somewhat easy to flee if you don't get cornered or stuck.

Underrail is excellent about giving you tools.

Sure step negating Acid and Caltrops gives characters the perfect opportunity to disengage and set a field of they have to flee.

Doors cost a bit to open and close but basically stop all robots and monsters.

Some rooms do not give you much to set up, but there are many more options to prepare for a fight than not.