Niam [Spoiler]

[Morrandir]

I know that there are some topics with questions about Niam. But some of them are from Early Access, so I just want to make sure.

Is there any way to rescue Niam in the gladiator's arena?
Will she come back in later chapters?

[erich.scheuch]

No

[Morrandir]

Thanks!

I really think Daedalic made a mistake here.
You recruit Niam quite late and lose her quite early, so you're stuck with 2 fighters and 2 "mages" as companions.
In a game where you can't select your companions out of a larger pool, the only NPC representing a certain "class" (hunter) shouldn't be absent for 80% of the game.

In deep story driven RPGs I like the idea of perma-dying companions, but it's not the right thing for an RPG like Blackguards, that is mainly about strategic combat.
Taking away Niam is just taking away a strategic variant in combat, if you haven't been lucky enough to have a magic wielding hunter as player character.

[illustrious.jfunk]

Any character can learn to weild a bow.

[Morrandir]

But not any character can learn to wield magic and have the fitting base values. ;)

[illustrious.jfunk]

Either of your mages can learn to use a bow just as well as Niam. The skill system is really "classless". Only magic/no magic is permanent.

The bottom line is, "Never trust a junkie." :-)

[swergdach]

Death half-elf is not sad or annoying, it is discouraging. Very questionable move from all points of view. From the perspective of the game's story does not have time to become attached to Niam to greatly upset by her loss. But in terms of game mechanics lost ability to fully use the archer in the current game, if the protagonist is not the same class. I do not take into account the multiclass when Zubaran flirting with a crossbow. The game seems to be saying: "You want to play a full-blooded archer? Do it yourself! Go back to the beginning!" This is the only thing that spoiled the gaming experience (except for the disgusting Russian localization).

[l1ttl3buddh4]

Didnt liked that too, no chance to rescue her there was little odd. But as said by illustrious.jfunk its uber classles... and i would NOT recommend to choose a basic, go for expert EVERY TIME! cause for 500AP you choose mage, but you dont have to skill it! but you have it, if any time you want to cast, just put some AP in spells and go for it. i recommend too to activate every single spell and talent, just you have it and dont have to search for a trainer.

[illustrious.jfunk]

Niam isn't a "full blooded archer", she's a "multiclass" as you call it mage/archer. Either of the other NPC mages can do exactly what she can.

There is zero loss of tactical possibilities with her demise. She's a magic user, replaced immediately with another magic user. Want to keep a mage/archer? Give the new mage archer skills.

[NickHaflinger]

Her death tells you:"This might happen to any of your characters except your main whenever we like to. So stop investing books in your mages cause it may be a waste."
After her death I started again, this time completely ignoring her. I gave her just the weapons and armor that I found, not buying a matching set. And I did not let her learn "Cold Shock" cause it's a waste.
It's a bad choice to kill her. To let the player make a choice between her and Takate with two different sidequests depending on the character you keep would have been better. More replay value.
And you can't replace her right away cause every mage is missing the "Move as Lightning" and "Hawkeye Marksmanship" spells.

[sunwalker0347]

It impacted me less to lose her tactically because I had sunk all my points in her being a healer/mage my first playthrough. My main character was also a Hunter in the first playthrough during early access. I suspect her death strongly impacted other players though their first time.

But on any playthrough after the first you know what's going to happen to her and can plan around it. You can still get all the spells she had. You can still have a team of archers (My current playthrough has 4 archers and Naurim, with each archer having a secondary roll). Nothing changes by losing her that you can't get back.

I think the death of her character was good for the storyline and impactful, and it was even good that you tactically feel the pinch of losing her and have to work to make up for it. Her death meant something, even logically. It was a loss. It makes sense, and was well done by the developers.

[Morrandir]

I don't feel that her death was good for the storyline, and it wasn't impactful. Story isn't Blackguard's strength, which is ok. As I said before, it's a game about tactical combat and character building.
Niams death to me seems like WE-CAN-DO-DEEP-STORIES-TOO-IN-YOUR-FACE!!!

Don't get me wrong, Blackguards is a great game, I really like it... but this death is simply unnessecary. I would have been better to not include her at all.

[Octokitten]

Originally posted by Morrandir:

I don't feel that her death was good for the storyline, and it wasn't impactful. Story isn't Blackguard's strength, which is ok. As I said before, it's a game about tactical combat and character building.
Niams death to me seems like WE-CAN-DO-DEEP-STORIES-TOO-IN-YOUR-FACE!!!

Don't get me wrong, Blackguards is a great game, I really like it... but this death is simply unnessecary. I would have been better to not include her at all.

I have yet to full finish chapter five though I'm through enough to comfortably state: Really? Story isn't Blackguard's strength? I've been finding the narrative more compelling than a great many other games I've played recently. The characters I've enjoyed, even the killed off Niam. I suppose the plot could be more advanced but all-in-all it's a solid fantasy plot-arch filled with the entertaining notions of religion and faith. Their writing is decent, it isn't anything to win awards with but I can think of standard RPGs that had more convoluted writing attached to it than this. I didn't mind the voice-work either.

In the case of the narrative I also really appreciate how they handled the death. Most RPGs of any sort who do the "You've been captured and turned into gladiators" trope make it seem more like a weekend at fight-camp than being enslaved. This gave more of the notion that you fought on their terms and not your own. Hell, chapter two is still the most challenging portion of the game I've played. After it one just sails easily around doing what one wishes. Reinforcing the notion of you being slaves, not grand and amazing gladiators getting poon all day, is the uncontrolled death of one of your characters. If you really liked her then all the better, it's a rough life being enslaved.

On a pure tactical level someone already pointed out she wasn't a pure-blooded archer. How can this be stated? Her spells she came with are fine examples. Zubaran flirting with a cross-bow? First off, why a cross-bow? Why? Zubaran, bow, aimshot and triple shot, bow mastery, done. And guess what? He's one of the most potent members of the team when he lands that triple, which he does with frequent ease. I think we can mostly agree that offensive magic spells in this game leave quite a bit to be desired. Frost being one of the better ones purely due to the debuff that's attached. The heaviest hits I've seen come from hammer-blow and triple-shot, maybe a well landed critical dual-weapon swing but that's more of a gamble. Fully leveled spells that look like they should do a raging amount of damage are relatively weak and cost a disturbing amount to case. So why would you have your mages "flirt" with cross-bows or bows? You should, without a doubt, be tossing the AP needed into them. I promise you by chapter five you'll be rolling in so much AP that you will be maxing out things you thought giggle worthy initially.

The problem here is the want to believe this is a six-character game. It's really a five character one where the fifth comes in post chapter two. Niam is great, I liked her character, I liked her being an addict, and she was a joy to have around as the potential first archer you see. That doesn't mean she's the only archer. That also doesn't mean you're missing out drastically by using a mage as a buff/healing-bot and inbetween a kickass archer. That is, afterall, all Niam did. Buff, buff, buff, shoot shoot shoot, buff buff buff, shoot shoot shoot.

If you want to complain about something complain about the offensive magic. Complain that your fifth starts with a string of witch spells that are underwhelming. Complain that the best spells in the game are effectively Heal and Move-as-Lightning. Instead the complaint is that a multi-class archer dies making everyone sad because they... don't want to multi-class their mages? Well there are strong odds by chapter five, if you make it that far without restarting or rage-quitting, you'll regret the choice to roll a pure mage and witch on your team who have no other attack options.

Also bows > crossbows provided you don't mind going through arrows like a drunk through a handle of Jack.

[Raven]

I'm waiting for the mod repaired this error... :I

[dgbug3]

You are dead wrong. She is the only character who you can level the eye to level 18, and the only character with lightning speed. Yes you can level it up. But they give the class to you and if you didn't know then you are toast for the whole game. I think the story mechanic should have had takate die in the arena rescueing her. But there would be the part where she could still die.

Originally posted by illustrious.jfunk:

Niam isn't a "full blooded archer", she's a "multiclass" as you call it mage/archer. Either of the other NPC mages can do exactly what she can.

There is zero loss of tactical possibilities with her demise. She's a magic user, replaced immediately with another magic user. Want to keep a mage/archer? Give the new mage archer skills.

[Harrison11106]

Dammit, I liked her character. She turned the tide in more then a few battles thanx to her bow ability (I had it for her at 1 level away from the maximum).

Thanx anyway, at least now I'm not wondering if i screwed up somehow.