State of the Mac and Linux port

[Marneus]

If I remember correctly, one of the first strech goals of the Kickstarter was a Max and Linux version of the game. What happened to that promise? Is there an ETA on the ports?

[YT GamingTux]

shanestainless님이 먼저 게시:

Hey guys,

We are still committed to bringing you Mac and Linux versions but whilst work is still ongoing for the PC version we're not able to give a definitive answer as to when they will arrive. As soon as we have further information we'll share it with you - rest assured we have not forgotten you!

I can understand that it is easier to port a "complete" game only 1 time. Then there is less work for ongiong changes and support. But you should have comunicated this in the beginning. Back in 2014 there where promises that the game will come the end of the year for Mac and Linux. Now we have 2016.
I can understand that the Kickstarter Backers want something for the money 2 years later. And now you go to Consoles first. That is a punch in the face of Linux and Mac Backers

[livius16]

I'm trying to be polite. but this is kind of a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ answer.

I allow myself to "nose" a bit as - if it was a company funding this game on their own playing with release dates - whatever , but since it was a crowed funded project with goals - people expect some kind of transparency.

The game was released on May last year (And ignoring the Early release 2014 versions alltogether - I'm being fair). Since then 3 updates have come out.

At this point if you guys undertook some sort of a delivery window on a PS4/XB1 version it means work on that has started by at least part of the team and discussions with MS / Sony were had. (Unless you guys have nothing and committed to such a date , something I can't believe most software companies will undertake)

If the linux / Mac versions come between now and the PS4 / XB1 version - great.
Otherwise it means that a team was devoted to these platforms rather then the mac / linux (regardless of the PC development).

I dont know , just doesnt sound fair to me.
I also funded this project when it initially came out - with the platform of choice being Mac in my case. this is kind of disappointing.

[kozec]

shanestainless님이 먼저 게시:

Hey guys,

We are still committed to bringing you Mac and Linux versions but whilst work is still ongoing for the PC version we're not able to give a definitive answer as to when they will arrive. As soon as we have further information we'll share it with you - rest assured we have not forgotten you!

So, after 2 years of not saying a ***, you said 3 lines of nothing.

Thanks. I'll surely back you again -_-

[massacrer]

shanestainless님이 먼저 게시:

Hey guys,

We are still committed to bringing you Mac and Linux versions but whilst work is still ongoing for the PC version we're not able to give a definitive answer as to when they will arrive. As soon as we have further information we'll share it with you - rest assured we have not forgotten you!

Very bad. I bought the game in the early access, based on information about the Linux version.

[Da Doom Man]

At this point stainless needs to hire another company like feral interactive to do the mac and linux ports. They are clearly too small to do more than two-three versions at once, that's not including all the other work they have.

[Tonrac]

And they don't have the cash to hire another company because they are a little indie studio ... that's why they focus on the console version in order to have the cash to port the game for Linux and Mac ... i understand you are frustated about waiting ... but if they focus their ressources on Linux and Mac right now, it could be the better way to not have a game at all ...

[Max Is Back]

Shark님이 먼저 게시:

I've been wondering what happened to the Mac and Linux ports as well. I was expecting to be able to pick this game up on launch, but the developers haven't delivered on their promise.

That's not fair on Stainless - at no time did they ever promise that the Mac/Linux versions would launch at the same time as the Windows version. In fact, they categorically stated that Mac/Linux versions would come once the Windows version was final. And as previously noted by others in this thread, "Carmageddon: Max Damage" appears to be the true final version, the game they wanted "Reincarnation" to be.

I understand the frustrations of Mac and Linux users but the notion that Stainless have somehow reneged on their promises or let customers down is highly disingenuous. Stainless have stuck with this game through thick and thin. It's no secret that they weren't happy with the game they released but at the time it came down to balancing the criticism they were receiving for delaying the release with the criticism they were expecting to receive from releasing the game prematurely. They weathered a painful launch knowing full well that the game wasn't mature enough. You can argue that this is their own fault for getting the estimates so badly wrong but sh*t happens. Indeed, this particular sh*t happens all the time and it's extremely traumatic for developers. You put your heart and soul into a thing for years on end only to have your hand forced in the final months and ultimately release knowing that the game isn't what it should be - knowing that for all your effort, it's justifiably going to get ripped to shreds. That's the point when many developers, up to and including triple-A studios, throw in the towel and move on.

Stainless haven't thrown in the towel. They haven't taken the money and run. They've weathered the criticism and got on with making the game they promised to make, the game they wanted to make. Today, "Reincarnation" is much closer to that game thanks to their ongoing commitment to it. But it's not good enough[carmageddon.zendesk.com]. And you can be damn sure that Stainless won't rest until it is.

That's the bottom line - that's why Mac and Linux users are still waiting for their port. That's why 25% of Kickstarter backers are still waiting for their rewards. Because Stainless adamantly refuse to consider the game "finished" until it's finished to their standards - the standards that fans expect and deserve. And you know what? That's bloody admirable. It's why I give them my money.

The console announcement strikes me a good strategy to ensure they have the budget to continue this extended development period and produce the definitive Carmageddon experience for all platforms. People seem to think they're using funds allocated for the Win/Mac/Linux version to develop the console version; I suspect it's more the other way around, the console version will be helping to fund the satisfactory completion of the game for all platforms. After all, development has taken far longer than originally budgeted for but no additional money has been made from that extra development effort. It must be costing them a fortune to stick to their principles and forge ahead with making the game everything it should be.

Stainless will come through on this - they always do. You don't have to take my word for it, time will prove me right eventually. I'm sorry to say that Mac and Linux users still have a fair wait on their hands but you've been waiting 19 years for this, isn't it worth a few more months to get the game that this resplendent franchise deserves?

[livius16]

Nobody expected it to be the same day.
And if it was a few month and they were transparent about it - nobody would have complained.

Obviously the console versions will kick a few (a lot) of coffers back to the chest that would help that - however I think the problem is simple - No transparency.
You say a few month - I think if it was a few month and they had a hard date - they would put it on paper (or web for this point) and NOBODY would have complained.
The fact that there is no hard date kind of tells that work has been probably put aside in order to enable the console game.
(Which by the way - again if it was communicated - way less people would have complained)

It just feels like it was put aside and nobody bothered to communicate as the windows people are happy and they are the majority , the console crowed is big so it will bring in fresh money - and those noisy Linux and mac fans , well we will take care of it later.

It's easy to say when you probably played the game for some time, but for me - my entire playtime on this game (Which made me join Kickstarter at all) has been 0.2 hours.

[livius16]

And that said - I'll probably buy the PS4 game just to get my fix that I thought I was going to get from this game.

[rookie]

Max Is Back님이 먼저 게시:

Shark님이 먼저 게시:

I understand the frustrations of Mac and Linux users but the notion that Stainless have somehow reneged on their promises or let customers down is highly disingenuous.

There are people who backed this on kickstarter, expecting a mac/linux port to be released. The game got released without any sign of mac/linux support, and if I recall correctly, without any further notice on the port at all. Now they get to hear that first they're gonna make a new game for consoles (users who have not spent a dime yet). If that's not letting (PAYING!!!) customers down I don't know what is.

[Shark]

Mac and Linux was the first stretch goal, for 200,000 over their goal.

[Max Is Back]

livius16님이 먼저 게시:

Nobody expected it to be the same day.
And if it was a few month and they were transparent about it - nobody would have complained.

I do think that transparency and communication are areas that Stainless could certainly improve upon.

livius16님이 먼저 게시:

Obviously the console versions will kick a few (a lot) of coffers back to the chest that would help that - however I think the problem is simple - No transparency.
You say a few month - I think if it was a few month and they had a hard date - they would put it on paper (or web for this point) and NOBODY would have complained.
The fact that there is no hard date kind of tells that work has been probably put aside in order to enable the console game.

Leading up to the release of "Reincarnation", Stainless got very badly burned by setting hard dates that they ultimately couldn't meet. Since then, they've pretty much refused to put a hard date on anything. I doubt you'd get a hard answer if you asked them what date Christmas is this year! But this is to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past and ending up under exactly the same pressure that led to the premature release of "Reincarnation". They have target dates but they're not going to make the mistake of telling us what they are. This is frustrating as a customer but understandable as a software developer. It's no reason to assume that Mac/Linux work has been put aside for the console version.

livius16님이 먼저 게시:

It just feels like it was put aside and nobody bothered to communicate as the windows people are happy and they are the majority , the console crowed is big so it will bring in fresh money - and those noisy Linux and mac fans , well we will take care of it later.

Well, I do think Stainless have fallen short when it comes to communication - there hasn't been anywhere near enough feedback for Mac and Linux users. But again, there's no reason to think this means it's been put aside. The console development will have significant cross-over with the ongoing PC development, given that all current gen consoles are just poorly spec'd PCs anyway (Jaguar based APUs, you must be kidding me, no self-respecting PC gamer would tolerate such trash!). So the console development and PC development will complement each other rather than compete with each other for development time. A huge number of assets will be fully reusable across all platforms. Don't think of it specifically as "console development" because that concept doesn't really exist anymore; it's just "development" and all platforms will benefit from it.

livius16님이 먼저 게시:

It's easy to say when you probably played the game for some time, but for me - my entire playtime on this game (Which made me join Kickstarter at all) has been 0.2 hours.

Yes, you're quite right and you make a valid point. I have several machines and all major operating systems so I've been having fun with the Windows version since last May, clocking up over 100 hours so far. I see a lot of complaints from Mac/Linux users who didn't back the original project but feel hard done by because their platform isn't supported yet - well, tough luck, have some patience! But the Kickstarter backers who have been waiting all this time and still have no end in sight - I feel terrible for you, truly I do. You helped to make this happen and you haven't even been able to enjoy the game yet. All I can say is that it's most definitely coming - Stainless aren't going to renege on their Kickstarter promises. But I understand this is little consolation when you've been waiting in anticipation for so long.

By the way, respect for actually discussing this instead of just hurling abuse around and insulting the devs. I know it must be frustrating.

[Max Is Back]

rookie님이 먼저 게시:

There are people who backed this on kickstarter, expecting a mac/linux port to be released.

I know rookie. Unlike you, I was one of them.

rookie님이 먼저 게시:

The game got released without any sign of mac/linux support

Indeed, exactly as intended.

rookie님이 먼저 게시:

and if I recall correctly, without any further notice on the port at all.

Indeed, not sure what your point is here but go on...

rookie님이 먼저 게시:

Now they get to hear that first they're gonna make a new game for consoles

Really? It doesn't look like a new game to me. It looks suspiciously like "Carmageddon: Reincarnation" with the additional vehicles and assets that were originally planned for C:R but failed to make the cut. Between you and me, I think they may have reused some assets from "Reincarnation" (like, all of them). And those new assets? I suspect they'll be coming to PC very soon. But how is this black magic possible? Allow me to let you into a secret: consoles are just little PCs on the inside.

rookie님이 먼저 게시:

(users who have not spent a dime yet)

Quick lesson on the basic concept of traditional commerce. The seller, or "vendor", offers an item for sale. The buyer, or "customer", then exchanges money with the vendor in return for the item. So those users "who have not spent a dime yet" aren't getting special treatment or something for nothing. They will have to pay money for the game - quite a lot more than a dime. That money will allow Stainless to fully complete the game for all platforms and remain solvent in the process.

rookie님이 먼저 게시:

If that's not letting (PAYING!!!) customers down I don't know what is.

How about giving them a crappy, rushed product for their hard-earned money? I would consider that a far greater let-down than receiving a good game late.

[kozec]

Max Is Back님이 먼저 게시:

rookie님이 먼저 게시:

(users who have not spent a dime yet)

Quick lesson on the basic concept of traditional commerce. The seller, or "vendor", offers an item for sale. The buyer, or "customer", then exchanges money with the vendor in return for the item. So those users "who have not spent a dime yet" aren't getting special treatment or something for nothing. They will have to pay money for the game - quite a lot more than a dime. That money will allow Stainless to fully complete the game for all platforms and remain solvent in the process.

Traditional commerce has **** to do with game that was payed in advance in kickstarter.

[Max Is Back]

kozec님이 먼저 게시:

Max Is Back님이 먼저 게시:

Quick lesson on the basic concept of traditional commerce. The seller, or "vendor", offers an item for sale. The buyer, or "customer", then exchanges money with the vendor in return for the item. So those users "who have not spent a dime yet" aren't getting special treatment or something for nothing. They will have to pay money for the game - quite a lot more than a dime. That money will allow Stainless to fully complete the game for all platforms and remain solvent in the process.

Traditional commerce has **** to do with game that was payed in advance in kickstarter.

But console buyers didn't pay in advance through Kickstarter, they will instead pay through the traditional method of exchanging money for goods. This is revenue that Stainless aren't currently receiving and they need it both to finish the project across all platforms and for the ongoing sustainability of the company. The projected project budget was paid for in advance, the actual project costs have been far greater. The shortfall needs to be recouped and this is an intelligent way to do it as the parallel development opportunities allow the PC versions to progress alongside the console versions, while the console versions will open up a new and important revenue stream. This benefits everyone. Mac and Linux users won't be receiving their port if Stainless go bust in their effort to perfect the game. Thankfully Stainless are doing the smart thing and making sure that doesn't happen.