Combat system - Risen 1 vs 2 vs 3 in-depth comparison

[Taron]

A lot of reviewers and gamers hate on the combat systems in the Risen series, which I can understand as they are not newbie-friendly at all, but they can be quite enjoyable if you "get it". The combat varies quite a bit from game to game, but in some cases I prefer it over some mainstream titles in this genre like Skyrim and the Witcher.

I won't lie, Risen's combat pales in comparison to the games that focus on good combat (my personal vote for best combat in the genre goes to Dragon's Dogma followed by Bloodborne) but its still much better than people make it out to be once you get into it.

Anyway for those that DO "get it" for why the combat can be great in this series, but liked or disliked certain aspects of it in the past, this post compares each of the 3 games in the series thus far and how the combat differs, as well as gives my personal opinion on which game does best in each category.

NOTE: In all 3 games I played only with a game controller, if that means anything.

Weapon Variety

Weapons unique to that game alone are in bold

Risen 1

Primary Weapons:

• Unarmed (punches and kicks)
  
• Swords (1-handed, 1.5-handed, 2-handed)
  
• Axes
  
• Warhammers (classified as "Axe" by the game)
  
• Staves

Secondary weapons:

• Bows
  
• Crossbows
  
• Crystal Magic Attacks (bullet, fire, ice)

NOTE: Not a weapon technically but Risen 1 also uniquely had Shields available.

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Risen 2

Primary weapons:

• Swords (Slashing & Piercing)
  
• Spears
  
• Sceptors
  
• Muskets
  
• Shotguns

Secondary weapons:

• Pistols (with long reload time!)
  
• Throwing Daggers (that can miss!)
  
• Dirty Tricks (sand, salt, parrot, coconuts, fire oil...)

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Risen 3

Primary weapons:

• Swords (Piercing, and "Swords")
  
• Hammers (Oddly referred to as "Slashing" - translation error?)
  
• Muskets
  
• Shotguns
  
• Magic Gloves (multiple element types)

Secondary weapons:

• Pistols (no reload delay!)
  
• Throwing Daggers (that never miss!)
  
• Crossbows

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My Opinion: All are roughly the same, though Risen 1 having both 1-handed and 2-handed variations, shields, and secondary effects on magic shots gives it the edge. Risen 2 also feels like it has less because everything is pirate-themed and little in the way of magic, whereas Risen 3 mixes in some non-pirate-themed stuff.

Basic melee combo system

Risen 1

3-hit combo (expandable with training) that requires single, timed button presses to achieve maximum attack speed (mashing button punishes you with slower attack rate). Long delay after final hit in combo generally requires defending before can execute another combo. Once firsts hit connects, whether blocked or not, enemy generally won't be able to interrupt rest of the combo if timed correctly. Each successive hit in the combo does more damage. With enough training in specific weapon type, each hit can become a strong hit with longer wind-up by holding the button (via a pause part-way through the normal swing) that can stagger a human enemy's block and allow for a follow-up hit to connect cleanly.

Risen 2

All hits are roughly the same speed and damage and the delay after the last hit of the combo is so short that it doesn't really feel much like a combo at all, more like you are just constantly swinging. Mashing button works fine (no speed penalty). Enemy can interrupt at any time though, so really only a single hit is "safe". Can perform a strong hit (after training a single skill early on) by holding the attack button, which causes a completely different longer animation with more forward motion in it and would cause some enemies to have an extra knockback or stagger reaction to getting hit by it.

Risen 3

3-hit combo (expandable with training) that requires single, timed button presses to achieve maximum attack speed (mashing button punishes you with slower attack rate). Long delay after final hit in combo generally requires defending before can execute another combo. Once first hit connects, whether blocked or not, enemy generally won't be able to interrupt rest of combo if timed correctly. Each successive hit in the combo does more damage, but also takes significantly longer to perform (unlike the previous 2 games). There are 2 sets of animations for the combo that the game alternates between for variety.

When at a distance base attack becomes an alternative first hit of a new combo that rapidly closes in on the targeted enemy. Can perform a strong (but slow) attack (with no training required) by holding the attack button, and can vary its strength and timing by how long hold the button down (it causes a delay just before a normal swing connects with a red glow around your hands, rather than a unique strong attack animation). Hitting a blocking human with one of these charged-up strong attacks will cause them to stagger, allowing you to follow it up with a quick attack that they can't block, and hitting some animals with it will cause them to get knocked back or down when they wouldn't with the normal version of the attack.

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My Opinion: Risen 3 is my preferred system here, but just barely, with the timed presses combo system from Risen 1 making a return but also having the homing attack feature, strong attacks having more functionality and versatility and being available right from the start, and the follow-up attacks having longer wind-up adding combat depth by weighing risk vs damage and requiring more attention paid to button press timing (though this last point may be a big negative to some). Risen 2's system offered nothing interesting outside of the strong attacks - the normal combo might as well have just been the same single attack animation repeated indefinitely for all the difference it made.

Dodge system

Risen 1

Dodge has 3 distinct directions - back, left, or right. The dodge is a realistic and fast quick step out of the way. When dodging the player stays focused on their current target, with the camera even rotating during a side-step dodge to stay focused on the enemy.

Risen 2

Dodge in any direction except forward. Dodge is a roll and does not maintain lock on current target, usually requires manually readjusting camera after. Requires holding block button then jumping to the side or back (on controller anyway). Seems to have little to no invincibility frames, meaning often will get hit anyway during it.

Risen 3

Dodge in any direction (including forward!) with a single button. Dodge is a roll and does not maintain lock on current target, usually requires manually readjusting camera after. Has full invincibility frames, in fact can keep dodging indefinitely and be completely invincible. Demon Hunter faction changes dodge roll animation into a teleport, though no apparent functional difference (enemies can even maintain lock on you during the teleport).

Also the dodge can break you out of certain animations, namely the stagger after blocking a powerful hit, and even break you out of an attack if you are charging it up for a strong hit and then change your mind before executing the swing.

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My Opinion: Risen 1 wins hands down here, and this is probably the primary reason behind those that assert Risen 1 still has the best combat system. The dodge is realistic, fast, keeps target lock, and is effective without granting infinite invincibility. Risen 2 has the worst dodge and outside of a few specific fights I actually found it detracted more than helped by making me dodge when I intended to kick (the fact that it was patched in later is pretty obvious).

Held block system (parry)

In all 3 games you can't block attacks from behind or the sides, but once you begin blocking an enemy, the hero automatically turns to face them for as long as the block button is held down (and they don't move out of range), but other enemies can flank you.

Risen 1

Can block with melee weapons or with a shield. Many creature attacks can't be blocked with a weapon though, requires shield for them. Also can't block unarmed attacks (but neither can the enemy!) without a shield.

Risen 2

No shields, but can block the majority of non-ranged attacks with melee weapon (including most animal/monster attacks that you couldn't block without a shield in Risen 1, though oddly Sand Devils can't be blocked). Block is either successful or not, no block break.

Risen 3

No shields, but can block non-ranged attacks with melee weapon. Most attacks can be blocked, including animal attacks that required a shield in Risen 1, with only really big monsters having attacks that go through block. However, strong (charged up) attacks from humans and most animal attacks cause you to stagger and drop your guard, making the next attack hit you if you don't first break out of the stagger animation by using a dodge roll.

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My Opinion: I actually like Risen 3 best here, as even though I love shields, it means I don't have the debate about giving something up just to have a shield for defense. Only very powerful (or ranged) attacks get past initial block, which means blocking is still a decently safe option.

Timed defense system (riposte)

Risen 1

After training in a specific weapon type, can learn to use a timed counter parry. Mistime and can be hit during recovery period at end of animation or even the start (has a slight windup time). If successful will cause the attacker to stagger. Only works on humans wielding weapons. At higher skill the parry itself actually directly acts as an attack in cases where it doesn't parry anything and the enemy isn't defending.

Risen 2

Can train in Parry which allows a timed parry to deflect an attack, but does not give you any advantage doing so by itself. Mistime and will start an attack instead and likely you'll get hit. Only works on humans wielding weapons. Can then train a separate Riposte skill that allows a quick follow-up attack right after successful parry (so in total 2 button presses needed to use this to actually gain advantage on the enemy). Training Strong Riposte though makes it so this difficult-to-perform maneuver will be one of the most powerful attacks in the game (not to mention looking pretty cool).

Risen 3

Can train in Riposte which causes an automatic counter if press block (parry) button at right time. Press too late and get hit, but press early and will just block the attack instead. Works even on animals and monsters (but not on ranged attacks or things like fire breath or poison spit). However a successful Riposte does not deal that much damage like the Strong Riposte could in Risen 2, and the animations aren't as flashy/elaborate this time.

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My Opinion: Risen 3 wins here with a single button press option that works on animals as well and can be trained as a single skill independent of specific weapon type.

Special attacks

Risen 1

Lateral Blows: With high enough training in a specific weapon, an alternate combo was unlocked by holding to the side while attacking. This combo could often get past an enemy's guard and was useful against crowds of enemies as well, at the cost of less hits in the combo.

Risen 2

Kick: This quick attack knocked enemies back, interrupted their current action, and could knock over or briefly stun some enemies (most notably crabs but also stuff like cougars and ghouls). In addition to knocking over specific enemies it was useful to give breathing room for ranged or off-hand attacks, interrupting "strong" attacks from humans, and for making sure the fight stays where you want it to be by knocking the enemy away rather than having to continue to back off to stay defensive and risk backing into other enemies or hazards.

Risen 3

Technically none, but since I wasn't sure where else to mention it, here's some passive additions Risen 3 made to spice up the combat in general.

Knockdown system: The final hit in your base combo can knock many enemies to the ground leaving them vulnerable. The Strong (charged-up) attacks can also flip over crabs and cause blocking humans to stagger and let you get a follow-up attack in for free. Enemies can also knock you to the ground now as well, adding a bit more dynamic feel to the combat.

Cinematic Finishers: These only play when defeating a human. They don't change the combat system in any way and are automatic but I enjoy the extra flashiness they add personally. However its a bit weird when you "knock out" an NPC by slitting their throat or the like at the end of a duel... To be fair I should note Risen 2 added a slow-motion camera for finishing a fight but it just highlighted how bad some animations were, and the fact that often your weapon wasn't technically hitting the enemy it killed anyway (a common truth in 3D combat systems that usually devs try to hide), but I found it to look lame and turned it off myself.

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My Opinion: Going to give the nod to Risen 2 here - I didn't find lateral blows to add much to the combat and don't miss them, and technically Risen 3 has no special extra attack, just automatic passive upgrades to the combat system in general to improve feel and flavor. Risen 2's kick was actually a nice very addition despite being a bit clunky to execute (at least with a controller) that added some much-needed tactical depth to the combat.

Ranged attacks

Risen 1

Bows and crossbows could be used as ranged attacks and could be improved with skill training.

Can also learn crystal magic spells Magic Bullet, Fire, and Ice, which take mana to cast. Magic Bullet is fast, Fire has AOE, and Ice can freeze and slow enemies but has slowest firing rate. Mana does not regenerate though (need to rest or drink potions), and each element requires a separate (and significant) training point investment to be effective rather than a single "magic" trait as the later games use.

Must switch to ranged attack mode to use these, and can't block/parry/riposte until switch back to melee.

Risen 2

Shotguns and Muskets can be used, with reload times. With correct faction and training these can be extremely powerful, able to kill many enemies before they have a chance to reach you and finishing off groups with the "shoot, then back up while reloading" technique with shotguns.

Spears can also be used as throwing weapon in primary weapon slot, though their performance is lackluster.

Can use weak melee attacks with these as well, but can't block/parry/riposte with them equipped.

Risen 3

Shotguns and Muskets make a return, but are not as clearly superior to other options as they were in Risen 2. They also are not faction-restricted to get full training in them. Otherwise they are the same.

Magic gloves can be used for long range attacks as well and have no restrictions like mana or ammo. They can also be used at short range in 3-4 hit combos and even charged-up strong attacks like a melee weapon. They have AoE damage but only when used in melee combo mode. These attacks also seem to be un-blockable by enemies. Don't seem to have secondary effects or different speeds though like in Risen 1, only difference between types is enemy weakness vs certain elements (and most enemies have no particular weakness).

Can't block/parry/riposte with any of these weapons equipped.

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My Opinion: Toss-up really. Lack of bows in 2&3 sucks. Lack of magic in 2 sucks. Lack of special extra effects on magic in 3 sucks. Bows and crossbows in 1 not as useful as guns in 2&3.

Off-hand weapon

Risen 1

No off-hand weapon system.

Risen 2

Off-hand attacks can be used at any time without changing your primary weapon.

Pistols had long reload and could miss but were still useful as an alternate attack and often did way more damage than your sword.

Throwing Daggers were harder to get (and more expensive) than pistol bullets and not very powerful, but at least they had no reload time. They could still miss though. Eventually could get infinite-use versions which made them arguably better than pistols, especially the one that also healed you every time you used it successfully.

Dirty Tricks could be quite useful to melee-focused players but were tied to a skill and could often miss. They usually stunned or distracted the opponent somehow giving you a free hit, but could also take an extra enemy out of the fight temporarily, knock enemies off cliffs, etc. Some of these also had infinite use but had recharge times.

Risen 3

Pistols return but no longer have reload time making them much less frustrating to use - still can miss though.

Throwing Daggers that don't miss any more (if an enemy is targeted) and with skill investment can eventually deal heavy damage, though they cost a lot more than bullets and I haven't heard of any with infinite uses so they are pretty cost-prohibitive to use.

Crossbows make a return from Risen 1 but as an off-hand weapon now. They can miss like pistols, but enemies that are immune to bullets don't seem to be immune to crossbow bolts (in fact nothing seems to be so far), and the bolts cost the same as the bullets and seem to fire at the same speed. So far no downside has been found for crossbows compared to pistols, other than there being no such thing as a "scatter crossbow".

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My Opinion: Risen 2 wins here. Risen 3's offerings are easier to use (no reload times and no missing with daggers), but Risen 2's Dirty Tricks could be very useful to melee-focused players and added some much-needed variety and alternate ways of dealing with enemies to the combat system. Also, off-hand attacks were extremely helpful in general in Risen 2, especially with how much damage they could do, and having infinite-use options like the special throwing daggers and Dirt and Sand made it possible to use them frequently without worrying about expense. By contrast, in Risen 3 I find myself forgetting they are even available because they don't really stand out compared to the primary attack types available and seem a waste of money to use as they don't really do anything outstandingly more impressive than primary weapons do.

Mobility (and retreating)

Risen 1

Can only go faster via a scroll or rune spell. Movement is character-relative like an FPS with the camera locked behind the character's back and both sticks required for all movement options (but can strafe!).

Risen 2&3

Sprint feature added, though you tire out if run continuously for a while. Movement is camera-relative like a console 3rd-person action game with the camera freely moving around the character via the right stick and all movement via left stick.

Also you can swim in Risen 3 only.

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My Option: I prefer Risen 2&3 as a controller-user for the movement style, and for the built-in sprint ability. Also being able to swim in Risen 3 is nice and can be used to get away from enemies that can't swim. Keyboard+Mouse users may prefer Risen 1's movement style though.

Supplemental abilities

Risen 1

Scrolls and rune spells (if in Mage faction) can supplement combat abilities with a variety of effects such as buffs, debuffs, creature summons, and AoE attack spells.

Food and potions offer instant healing, though there is an animation required to drink potions, and some food can offer special buffs.

Risen 2

Voodoo dolls and sceptors (if in Voodoo faction) can supplement combat abilities with a powerful debuff, a summoned ally, fear (take one enemy out of the fight), and forcing enemies to fight each other. However there were no direct attack spells, but there were bombs that could be placed down and then shot to do high damage to a large area.

Provisions offer regeneration and rum offers direct healing, no animation required. Food is automatically converted into provisions thus has no secondary buffs, though meat must still be cooked to become provisions.

Risen 3

Scrolls, Runes, Voodoo Dolls can be used, as well as freely casting the spells provided by each (with no mana required!) depending on which faction you join. All 3 factions have spells available uniquely to them (outside of the consumable/craftable items which can be used by all factions). Effects include all the same abilities as in the previous games (buffs, debuffs, summons, direct attacks, etc etc).

Provisions and Rum works the same as in Risen 2.

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My Opinion: Risen 3 clearly wins here with the greatest variety of supplemental abilities and with all 3 factions having their own unique abilities rather than having to join the Mages (for Rune spells) or Voodoo (for sceptors/dolls) to get special abilities beyond consumable items. That said, I hate the instant heal from Rum in 2&3, the tactical healing via potions in Risen 1 was better IMHO.

Companions

Risen 1

Companions were rarely available at all in this game, you spent the vast majority of the time going it alone. When you had a companion it was for a specific quest, and the opportunity to use your companion for anything outside that quest was very rare.

Risen 2

You get a companion after the tutorial for a while, then go it alone until you join a faction, then you can have one with you at pretty much all times for the rest of the game. The companion at the start is practically required to get anything accomplished in combat when you start out because some enemies need the companion to distract them while you attack from behind when you don't yet have abilities like kick and riposte, and you don't get effective long-range weapons for quite a while. Plus some areas swarm you with enemies such that its just unfeasible to tackle them all yourself. Most of the companions have similar abilities, but its noteworthy that one can heal you (only with Voodoo faction), one can fight from range (only with Inquisition faction), and one could loot corpses for you. The rest all used swords or sword + pistol.

Risen 3

You start out with a companion and the moment you lose them get another, even better one that can heal you, and can now have a companion at pretty much all times for the rest of the game. Unlike Risen 2 though, the companion isn't really necessary to succeed, they are more of a crutch. Companions seem to have a slight bit more variety than in Risen 2 though, with each offering at least one thing unique about them (pistol, rifle, healing, stealing, use of attack spells, etc).

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My Opinion: I hate depending on an AI to do what I want, and I also don't like having to purposefully avoid using a game feature in order to have any challenge, so my vote goes to Risen 1 for not really having companions. Risen 2 the companions are often necessary yet often don't do what you need them to, and Risen 3 companions just make the game too easy if you use them and almost never forces you to go it alone. To be fair, I really enjoyed having companions along OUTSIDE of combat due to their occasional commentary, and I think said commentary is actually improved in Risen 3 over Risen 2 (which is good since the main character's dialog/voice is much worse in 3 compared to 2, IMHO).

Enemy tactical variety

No matter how good a combat system is, if every enemy can be defeated using the same technique as every other enemy, it will eventually feel boring and stale. Combat is much more interesting if each new enemy you encounter requires you to pay attention and learn how they work before you can consistently defeat them. Many games fail is this category, including non-RPG's, but PB games have usually done a pretty good job with this.

Risen 1

Without a shield and fighting non-weapon-wielding enemies with melee attacks, there is quite a lot of variety to be found here. Different enemies have different "tells", with some attacks being parry-able and some not, some attacks closing in quickly, different enemies circling around you or not, and so on. The player needs to learn when to dodge (and which direction to dodge) and when to parry and even when to attack first to interrupt the enemy.

The addition of shields significantly reduces the variety as blocking works effectively on almost everything, making it just a matter of blocking and waiting until an opportunity to hit back. All the needs to be learned is how to recognize when the enemy's attack pattern has ended so its safe to hit back for many enemies, though some still employ un-blockable attacks requiring you to pay close attention and rely on dodging even with a shield.

Against weapon-wielding enemies, the counter-parry system requires paying attention to know when to parry the enemy and counter-attack (and when to counter their counter if you get that ability later...). Shields don't make much difference here as your weapon can block these attacks just fine anyway. Dodging to the side and using Lateral Blows can help get around enemy defense. Different enemies actually use different tactics and have different moves available to them, as well as different weapon types changing how they fight.

For ranged combat, as usual the enemy doesn't really make much difference other than their health, size, and movement speed. What adds variety is the terrain - trying to get a good advantageous position or having enough room behind you to retreat while firing. Its also important to know how much health, defense, and speed each enemy has to know if you can take them out before they reach you, and of course smaller/faster enemies can be harder to hit consistently. The 3 different spell types you can focus on also change how much of a threat different enemies will be to you.

Of course fighting multiple enemies at once is always an extra challenge, requiring you to try not to do that in the first place (proper "pulling" technique) or carefully manage your camera and positioning to avoid being flanked. Some enemies are more likely to be grouped up than others (like wolves) and some will try harder than others to flank you.

Risen 2

Against non-weapon-wielding enemies, the lack of effective defensive options and the uninteresting basic combo attack seems that it would limit the variety between enemy types, but the ability to Kick and use Strong attacks with different enemies reacting differently to them, and certain enemy attacks being un-blockable but having obvious "tells", makes for a fair amount of variety.

For example, some enemies are best defeated by just mashing the attack button to keep them stun-locked (unfortunately this is the case in the first enemy you face, the sand devils with their fast un-blockable attacks, which makes for a particularly poor first impression of the combat). Warthogs will sometimes retreat and then do a charge attack that can't be blocked, but you can move to the side to avoid it and hit them while they recover (or time a kick to break them out of it). Monkeys try to circle-strafe you and mix in their un-blockable ranged attacks. Ghouls give no opportunity to hit them directly between their constant barrage of attacks, but a swift kick at the end of their 3-hit combo will stun them long enough to get a strong attack in. Crabs require waiting until they rise up in a high stance before you can kick them to knock them over. Jaguars will back off and then use an un-blockable pounce attack and start to maul you, but if you time a kick you can knock them over just before the pounce connects. Large guardian guys have an un-blockable power swing that you have to move to the side to avoid (one of the few cases where dodge helps, but you don't actually need it to avoid this slow attack, you can just move to the side). And so on.

Against weapon-wielding enemies, you have two options in melee - block a lot and get an occasional single swing in (more than one and you're likely to get hurt) and rely mostly on your off-hand weapon/trick to get an advantage, or invest in parry + riposte + strong riposte and kill them that way. The second option requires very good timing, a lot of practice, and a fair amount of skill point investment to work though. Must humanoid fights are about the same, I haven't seen any variety in AI tactics other than some enemies don't have access to certain moves (kick, parry, etc) and you can't do anything about their off-hand attacks anyway so those are just occasional extra damage you take with no help for it. Some will attack at range before you close in though, but that mostly only matters when facing a group.

Ranged combat is mostly the same as usual, with it being more about terrain and knowing how fast and healthy an enemy is than knowing their AI and tells. However the tactic of backing off and taking a single shot and repeating is MUCH more effective than in Risen 1 (and somewhat required due to reload time) meaning its much easier to take out enemies without needing to resort to melee at all, especially if you join the faction that focuses on Muskets.

Attempting to take advantage of the Voodoo magic system to defeat enemies is similar to ranged combat in that its more about knowing the health and damage and such of enemies and taking advantage of terrain than it is about knowing their AI, since the magic is focused on getting enemies to attack each other or de-buffing them rather than any kind of direct damage.

Groups of enemies of course add variety in much the same way as the other games, though having a companion for most of the game and the Kick to push them where you want them to go makes them more manageable than in Risen 1.

Risen 3

Against non-weapon-wielding enemies, a solid melee technique is to block and wait for their first attack to hit you, roll-dodge to get out of the stagger from the blocked hit and avoid their second attack, then counter with your timed combo. If they are against a wall, just keep repeating your combo attack to stun-lock them since they can't block, and if the 3rd hit knocks them over, follow up with a charged-up strong attack for the first hit of your next combo. Then once your combo has ended and they are not up against a wall or knocked over, go back to blocking and repeat.

Once you get Riposte, you can instead learn to Riposte the first attack (which unlike Risen 1&2 works on monsters) and then counter attack with your combo, eliminating the need to block or dodge at all once you've mastered this (except for certain attacks like fire breath or poison spit). This does add some nice variety as you have to learn the correct timing for each type of enemy in order to properly Riposte.

Unfortunately the first block-then-dodge tactic seems to work on pretty much every monster (they all seem to have 2-hit combos with the first hit causing you to stagger if it is blocked) unless they have a completely un-blockable attack that you must dodge. Its possible this changes later on though (I haven't completed the game yet).

Against weapon-wielding enemies they can vary their combo between normal and heavy attacks for each hit of their combo. Normal attacks can be blocked and once their combo is done, you can counter with a combo of your own. Strong attacks can be interrupted with a normal attack if you are really fast, otherwise you need to block it and then dodge to get out of the stagger. Or you can just use Riposte once you get it on either type. I haven't seen any significant difference from one weapon-wielding enemy to the next in terms of how to fight them except whether or not they employ a gun.

Ranged is the same as mentioned above. Magic gloves should be noted as being unique in that you have a melee-range magic attack option. In this case roll-away then magic blast them to death seems to work consistently on any enemy, and even groups of enemies since they are AoE attacks. Since these attacks are also un-blockable it works the same on both weapon-wielding and non-weapon-wielding enemies, with the only issue being enemies that have ranged attacks of their own.

Speaking of groups, again this always adds extra challenge but the option to have a companion at all times can help (especially if you abuse roll-dodge invincibility and just let the companion kill them for you). Magic gloves work very well against groups now as I just mentioned. The fast-homing-in ability on your basic attack can also be used to rapidly switch targets and prevent any enemy from having a big enough opening to hit you. Beyond that though its the same as the other games - try not to get swarmed in the first place and manager your positioning and camera carefully.

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My Opinion: For weapon-wielding enemies, Risen 1, for non-weapon-wielding enemies, Risen 2. Risen 1 would also have it for non-weapon-wielding enemies if you forego a shield, which is what I did when I played through it. Risen 3 is better than Risen 2 vs weapon-wielding enemies though. Admittedly I'm not very far in Risen 3, but when I was the same amount into Risen 1 & 2 I had already had to really pay close attention and learn how each enemy is different in order to be effective, but in Risen 3 the same basic tactic seems to work fine on everything, its just a matter of whether or not screwing up gets me instantly killed or just hurt. Risen 3's variety seems to come almost entirely from learning the correct timing for Riposte on each type of enemy, but even then I haven't found an enemy where you actually NEED to Riposte instead of just use the block-then-dodge method. My opinion on this may change as I get deeper into Risen 3.

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Whew! Well, I hope for anyone else asking in the future, this more than covers the combat system in Risen 3 compared to previous games in the series.

Overall each game stands on its own in positives and negatives.

Risen 1 is quite solid throughout - at the beginning its quite difficult, but player skill can overcome avatar weakness. As the hero becomes more powerful, new enemies are introduced in later chapters, so its not until near the end of the game where the character starts to feel god-like. It was not perfect though, and missing fun elements added to the later games. There were some pretty nasty difficulty spikes and of course the typical "rough edges" of all PB games (though having played it just after finishing a run of Gothic 1&2, the combat was still much more polished than they were despite what nostalgia tells people). The final dungeon was also typically too long and dull like in the Gothics, and the last boss also disappointingly did not test the player's skill at combat at all, it was more like a mini-game (and the ending was nearly non-existant, end-boss, cutscene of their death, roll credits).

Risen 2 starts out the worst in the series, with the player having practically no options at all to overcome their avatar's weakness. They must depend on a companion, or else just block forever and occasionally use a pistol or Dirty Trick once it recharges and hope the RNG is on their side with it actually hitting (or just swing wildly and hope to outlast the enemy). However, in classic PB form the combat does get much better once skills like Kick and Riposte are learned (or when the player opts to go with ranged weapons, which are far more effective than in past PB games). There is a nice wide variety of enemy behaviors to overcome as well, and as the game continues the combat becomes quite fun. There is some introduction of new enemies later on, but not with the big difficulty spikes Risen 1 had. There's no big long tedious final dungeon (a plus in my eyes) and the final boss did actually make the player's previous combat experience mean something (you could even use a Strong Riposte on them which was awesome). Plus, not related to combat, but I liked the ending allowing you to talk to all your crew one last time after the boss fight, like Gothic 2 did.

Risen 3 starts out great, with the combat being challenging but the player character having all the tools they need to overcome powerful enemies through player skill - blocking, dodging, strong attacks, secondary weapon, AND a companion. It also feels smooth and polished compared to the past games (at least once you "get" how the combat flows). Its like the reverse of Risen 2 though - apparently, as time goes on the player avatar gets obscenely powerful but the enemies don't really ramp up, so the combat becomes too easy and thus too dull. To be fair, in all PB games the player character becomes god-like near the end, but apparently this happens much sooner in Risen 3.

Now to be honest, I have recently finished a complete play-through of Gothic 1->Gothic 2:NotR->Risen1->Risen2 and am back to Risen 3, but I have not completed Risen 3 (I'm basically just past picking a faction) so the above is based on what I've read rather than experienced. So far, by playing on Hard, not putting any points into Toughness, and avoiding using healing items during combat (as suggested by other players) the game has remained quitechallenging and I still die quite frequently. So it remains to be seen if Risen 3 will end up standing out as the worst or best in the series in terms of combat in my final opinion, but so far I by no means find the combat "terrible", at least for a PB game.

[P.J.]

Escrito originalmente por BathorysGraveland:

Risen 3 is far more fluid and responsive than Risen 2 ever was, and has rules to follow.

I can't stress this enough. I think most reviewers are just lazy... Risen 3 reminds me a lot more of the combat in the Risen 1 than Risen 2. I can even say that Risen 3 has the best combat. My only problem is it actually being way too easy, but oh well, guess I have to play on hard or hope for some sort of patch to fix it...

Escrito originalmente por BathorysGraveland:

morgannin03 just made a pretty good video about the combat, explaining some things and showing it off. Worth a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdwhA5_InCU

morgannin03 did a video?! Man, I talked to that guy on one of the DeepSilver streams of the game, lol. I remember "morgannin", "Sker" and "gamerz_gal".

Escrito originalmente por Serchine:

Escrito originalmente por BathorysGraveland:

I think you need to re-check that, because health most certainly is affected. On medium, enemies drop like flies.

I tested many times:quick save,kill a monster,back to main menu,change diffculty,load game,kill it again,took exactly the same hits.You should do some test to prove your point.

Maybe it's not about how much damage you do, but the other way around... Hmm...
One thing I noticed on hard is that the enemies were -often- attacking at the same time, but maybe it was just me being "lucky".

[P.J.]

Since I really don't want to bump that "atrocious" thread because, well, it's atrocious, I'll try to talk about the "Risen 2 islands on Risen 3" on this sweet thread instead <3.

*about that thread, the OP obviously hate the game or even the series - who knows - but since he has "the mouse icon" I gave him credits, but guess what? Just another troll, with private profile and all... I actually do know people that buy some games just to go to their forums and talk ♥♥♥♥. It's a thing, believe me. I would never buy CoD just to go there and say "who plays this ♥♥♥♥?". It's just... dumb.

SO, back to my thoughts on the Risen 2 islands...

I just finished Antigua on Risen 3 and I must say that it was really fast. Not because I'm familiar with the game/combat, but because I think that was designed to be like that: a fast travel between islands you already visited in the previous game!

I can confirm that it doesn't use the "same" assets at all, but upgraded ones. The trees, the walls, objects... they all look better in Risen 3. Going to the tech/nerd/geek talk, Antigua treats Parallax Occlusion Mapping as ♥♥♥♥! You saw those rocks/floor at the port? Dat roof?! and then we have APEX clothing now too, damn! Ok, enough nerdy talk...

They don't look the exact same thing to me...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=298862567

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=301740003

Well, when you finally complete the quests there, take a closer look on how some objects are broken or out of place to better suit the "invasion/attack from the Shadow Lord" story/moment. At the end they are all talking about rebuild the island, especially the port and things like that, and then you go to another island... But when you do come back to Antigua most things are fixed! (the fornitures are back on place, broken things are fixed and so on). I was like OMG!?

Details, b!tches, de -f ucking- tails. That's why I love Piranha Bytes.

By the way, I'm not sure if that part is actually a spoiler, but I don't want to mess with anyone, so... xD

[Tam]

Thanks for the informative post, OP.

As someone who enjoyed Risen 1 a lot, am I likely to enjoy Risen 3? It was the exploring and OP magic that hooked me in Risen 1.

I tried the demo for Risen 2, but was completely turned off by it, so I never played it.

To be honest, Risen 3 looks rather amateurish in a lot of respects, especially the animation and voice acting. Getting past the amateurishness, does it have the same good points as Risen 1? Right now, I'm wondering if I'll regret dropping some loot on Risen 3 were I to do so...

[Alvin the Elf]

Escrito originalmente por P.J.:

Since I really don't want to bump that "atrocious" thread because, well, it's atrocious, I'll try to talk about the "Risen 2 islands on Risen 3" on this sweet thread instead <3.

*about that thread, the OP obviously hate the game or even the series - who knows - but since he has "the mouse icon" I gave him credits, but guess what? Just another troll, with private profile and all... I actually do know people that buy some games just to go to their forums and talk ♥♥♥♥. It's a thing, believe me. I would never buy CoD just to go there and say "who plays this ♥♥♥♥?". It's just... dumb.

SO, back to my thoughts on the Risen 2 islands...

I just finished Antigua on Risen 3 and I must say that it was really fast. Not because I'm familiar with the game/combat, but because I think that was designed to be like that: a fast travel between islands you already visited in the previous game!

I can confirm that it doesn't use the "same" assets at all, but upgraded ones. The trees, the walls, objects... they all look better in Risen 3. Going to the tech/nerd/geek talk, Antigua treats Parallax Occlusion Mapping as ♥♥♥♥! You saw those rocks/floor at the port? Dat roof?! and then we have APEX clothing now too, damn! :risenashbeast: Ok, enough nerdy talk...

They don't look the exact same thing to me...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=298862567

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=301740003

Well, when you finally complete the quests there, take a closer look on how some objects are broken or out of place to better suit the "invasion/attack from the Shadow Lord" story/moment. At the end they are all talking about rebuild the island, especially the port and things like that, and then you go to another island... But when you do come back to Antigua most things are fixed! (the fornitures are back on place, broken things are fixed and so on). I was like OMG!?

Details, b!tches, de -f ucking- tails. That's why I love Piranha Bytes.

By the way, I'm not sure if that part is actually a spoiler, but I don't want to mess with anyone, so... xD

Brilliant post. Thank you, good sir!

[kaffekoppen]

I just want to clear up a bit of confusion from earlier - your companions CAN get knocked out even on medium difficulty. It actually happens very quickly when fighting magic-wielding minions or shadow guardians.

[Taron]

Hey, I just wanted to say to kaay, in regards to an earlier discussion on Risen 2 vs Risen 3 combat systems, that I did figure out the "trick" to the ghouls I mentioned before - kicking. I'm not sure where I read it, but I was somehow convinced by a guide or something that Kick was only useful for re-positioning your opponent and for knocking over crabs. However, experimenting with it more, its a pretty vital move in Risen 2. For example, when a Jaguar rears up to pounce on you, you can kick them to knock them over and get some hits in. I also found that the kick is fast enough to use on a Ghoul when your normal attack would be too slow to get a hit in between its attacks, and it staggers a LOT from the kick giving you enough time to follow up with a strong attack.

I revised my original post to reflect how important Kick is to Risen 2's combat system. I'd also like to say that Risen 2 DID have some unique AI behaviors that made many enemies feel distinctly different (something I really loved about Risen 1), even though a lot of it wasn't obvious at first (I think due to the spamming basic attack). For example, Warthogs back away and then try to ram you which can't be blocked like most attacks, but you can move to the side and whack them. Even the crab thing, you can only knock them over when they are in a raised-up stance, not whenever you want.

I admit I should have replayed Risen 2 more before making this analysis instead of depending on only my 4-5 hours of playing and researching what others had to say about the combat. I'm now replaying it to get a better perspective on what some of its defenders like kaay have been saying (and to refresh my memory on characters that reappear in Risen 3). As is typical with PB games, the combat DOES get better once you get things like strong attacks and kick, but there are still some things I really don't like about it (like the basic combo spamming, the near-useless dodge roll that I honestly wish I could just disable so kicking was easier to do without rolling accidentally, and the higher overall need to have a companion with you for many fights compared to Risen 1 where you were solo 95% of the time). I will continue to revise the original post if I discover any new details or change any of my opinions while playing through more of Risen 2 and Risen 3.

[Wardiaper]

This thread is way too full of facts and thoughtful analysis.

[Lil PeePee]

What do you all think of the chances of those German wizards making some mods like a balancing one like they did for R1?

[Y Ddraig Ddu]

Escrito originalmente por Taron:

the near-useless dodge roll that I honestly wish I could just disable so kicking was easier to do without rolling accidentally

Keep in mind that this was implemented by PB post release thanks to the mewling, entitled masses unable to figure out a simple combat system. I'm not a fan of the roll either, and it's unlikely PB is as well. I'm actually PRETTY sure there IS a way to disable it, but I can't remember right now. I'll do some digging.

[Taron]

Well they went from no roll to useless roll to overpowered roll in Risen 3. They should have just stuck with the effective (and far more realistic looking IMHO) side-step dodge system from Risen 1... :P

Or stuck to their guns and left dodging out... You know, the game in this genre that has, in my opinion, the absolute best combat system - Dragon's Dogma - has roll dodge restricted to only specific classes, and the other classes are still quite effective and fun to play without it. Despite what it might seem from playing Dark Souls and Witcher 2 a lot, a rolling dodge move is not essential to having a solid combat system.

I do agree with them adding in the ability to block monster attacks with your sword though in that Risen 2 patch - I can't imagine how frustrating this must have been without the ability to dodge OR block attacks on creatures, which you honestly spend a lot more time fighting then weapon-wielding humans.

[kaay]

Escrito originalmente por Taron:

I do agree with them adding in the ability to block monster attacks with your sword though in that Risen 2 patch - I can't imagine how frustrating this must have been without the ability to dodge OR block attacks on creatures, which you honestly spend a lot more time fighting then weapon-wielding humans.

I played it prior to the change (without companions) and it was not that bad, the idea was that the player had to mix some ranged and kiting when fighting the creatures, use hit and run tactics and what not. It made sense, i imagine its kinda difficult to fight a giant croc or spider with a cutlass :P
The game had a distinct survival feeling to it, the player had to think twice before engaging any creature (or human for that matter). Every single quest was a challenge and you had to break your head to find a working strategy, but to me it felt quite realistic, those monsters were actually very deadly and the player was no hero at all.
After the change i could just go ahead and attack anything i wanted without much fear of failure.
Before the change the game was indeed very difficult and above all the player almost never felt like he had the upper hand, he was barely surviving, at least in the early game.
The truth is that most people dont like this kind of feeling in games, so i dont blame anyone for bashing Risen 2 the way they did. Risen 2 in its original form was an interesting experiment in game design that i enjoyed a lot, my only regret is that they applied the change when i was still early in the game.

[Lil PeePee]

MODS, WE NEED DIFFICULTY MODS!

[GrimReaper]

Even witcher 3 got rid of the roll and changed it to a quick sidestep.

[Taron]

Escrito originalmente por GrimReaper:

Even witcher 3 got rid of the roll and changed it to a quick sidestep.

Really? I didn't know that. Well there you go then, so Risen 1 had it right and then they doubted themselves and followed the example set by others like Wither 2 when they should have stuck with the superior dodging system they already had.

I have to say though as I'm playing through both Risen 2 & 3 right now, that in Risen 2 I pretty much gave up on dodge altogether, its never actually needed, and in Risen 3 I only really use the dodge for breaking out of the stagger animation when my block is hit by a powerful blow. The Risen 3 dodge really didn't need the massive invincibility frames it has...

[DPB]

I played Risen 2 pre-patch, and the problem with the lack of dodge was that your only way of quickly moving away from a monster exposed your back, leaving you open to very damaging attacks. This wasn't the case in the Gothic games and Risen, where it was possible to back away from attacks even without dodging.