Old Seiken densetsu player after buying MAJOR SPOILERS. READ AT OWN DISCRETION

[LyaranTirel]

So I've made a post before buying this game "Old Seiken densetsu player in doubt of buying" with 4 questions for it:

That is basically it.
1 - good or bad writing?
2 - Characters are Sponge Bobs or Steve Universes?
3 - Gameplay better than previous or just new dressing?
4 - Is it challenging or baby mode?

They told me this game was basically a 6-7 out of 10 and I went for it. Here is my final thoughts after basically finishing the game (not 100%, but the major important parts)

1 - Writing was told it was okay. It was not. Major MAJOR fall from Trials of Mana, which I kinda expected since Trials was basically a remake of Seiken densetsu 3 and people from that era were more focused on storytelling than graphics to sell their games.
The writing is bad. And not just bad. its EPIC levels of bad. I'm not only talking about the 'kid friendly' kind of writing where they basically tell everything instead of showing because they thing their players wont understand. This is the level were if this was writen by any other point the Goddess would be the actual villan here. The game basically makes the people who does bad things 'heroes' (the first guy that kills Hinna) and the guy that actually did all the heavy lifting to save the world before (the big blond guy) the bad guy because the goddess couldn't do THE ONE THING he asked her to do. If this was a more adult audience it would be like that royalty that promisses a mercenary riches just to call him a villan robber after he does the deed. This is one of the worst cases of 'history told by winners' you can use as example of how NOT to do writing.

2 - Characters were told to be the same level as Trials. I'll be honest, I was expecting to be very annoyed by Juliei just like I was by Charllotte/Carlie, but I was very surprised that I loved the lil dude. The most annoying one would be the whiny dragon girl, but she was just slightly more whiny than Angela so I could take it well. Val and Hinna 'annoyance' were actually well written because it was very well stablished that both were very young, very naive and very trusting even when they shouldn't. All the other characters were older or, in Careena case, less trusting than both so I was withing the narrative.
All in all the characters were at very consistent and waves ahead the seiken densetsu usual personalities. They actually learned lessons on the way and acted acordingly. A good improvement in my eyes

3 - Gameplay was better too! Trials of Mana improved the original games with the ability sets and diferent passives to choose and this one just branched on and made a whole new forest. Very good improvement. It did NOT had anything NEW persay, and not only they re-used many of old classes but you can basically co-relate all of the new to the Trials ones:
Val = Duran with the sabers and high defense
Careena = Riez/Lise with the buffs and debuffs and not being actually excelent at any stats per say, just the balance of all.
Morley = Hawkeye with fast attacks and high crit. He also got the traps and throwables.
Palamena = Angela to the most copy-past I've ever seen. The biggest diferent is that you can make her a little less paper-weak as Angela with some of the classes passives.
Juliei = Charlotte/Carlie to the bone even with the summoner magic. The biggest downfall is that Trials WALL magic was actually usable while in this game its trash so he can do very little to defend against magic and have to rely on Val's defenses or Morley Cristalise for it.

There was no equivalent to Kevin. They TRIED something with Careena fist classes, but they failed hard because she doesn't have they high damage high HP Kevin has to keep going no matter what.

4 - Is it challenging? Not really. I saw Trials of Mana so I already knew that Hard was the equivalent of Normal and Normal was the equivalent of Easy. and Easy was god-mode. I don't know if it has a No-Future mode, and the game is still fresh enough to have so hope for a update for it, but from what I've seen from Expert it's not really hard, specially if you use the optimized combos on the New Game Plus.

In the end it was a good use of time. The drive of the gameplay was enough to make me ignore most os the terrible writing and the diverse options of how to battle were very interesting.
Not the most balance of all, with game leans MASSIVELY on you using Morley Moon Class to just beat thou everything in the game (Seriously, Using that class made the game easy mode even on Hard) but its not like Trials of Mana or even Seiken Densetsu 3 were anywhere balanced. You can still beat the game with anything, some will just make the game go baby-mode and others more of a grind.

Would I recomend it? No. Not really. I don't regret buying it for the pure seiken nostalgia, specially with some of the bosses, but the game is nowhere near good enough to cost as much as it did EVEN ON SALE. They DO rely on nostalgia of old games to sell it and they know what they are doing, but if its some new player that never even heard of the seiken series it would be a huge disapontment.

For someone that already paid the big amount for Trials and wants more of Trials game thou... yeah. you can buy it. Don't expect much, but its more Trials with diferent dressing. No real challenge of No-Future, but still the same style.

[nullnilnadanixnaught]

If you're going to brag about being a hardcore Mana series fan, unlock your profile and show how many hours you've logged on SoM, ToM, and LoM. Bonus points for DoM, RoM, CoM, EoM, and AoM. Snap a selfie with your console/phone play data and upload it.

[LyaranTirel]

Originally posted by nullnilnadanixnaught:

If you're going to brag about being a hardcore Mana series fan, unlock your profile and show how many hours you've logged on SoM, ToM, and LoM. Bonus points for DoM, RoM, CoM, EoM, and AoM. Snap a selfie with your console/phone play data and upload it.

yes. Show our personal information and photos to the world because some random stranger dared you to... Did you not see the 'old' part of the post? That don't work around here.

Dawn of Mana, btw, one of the worst ones I played. I don't know what the heck they were thinking there.

I also DONT recomend the gacha mobile one they made. It was VERY predatory.

[nullnilnadanixnaught]

Okay, I understand that you might be a bit hesitant to share your steam play data with a 'stranger', and that's totally fine. No need to get defensive. However, Lyanatiral, your insights on the game caught my attention and as someone who enjoys the Mana series, I'd love to see your collection. Would you be willing to share a photo of your Mana game packages? Just the collection, preferably stacked in front of your PC screen showing this page. After all, any true otaku/enthusiast who says he is dedicated to the series for a long time wouldn’t pass up the chance to show off their beloved collection, right?

[LyaranTirel]

Originally posted by nullnilnadanixnaught:

Okay, I understand that you might be a bit hesitant to share your steam play data with a 'stranger', and that's totally fine. No need to get defensive. However, Lyanatiral, your insights on the game caught my attention and as someone who enjoys the Mana series, I'd love to see your collection. Would you be willing to share a photo of your Mana game packages? Just the collection, preferably stacked in front of your PC screen showing this page. After all, any true otaku/enthusiast who says he is dedicated to the series for a long time wouldn’t pass up the chance to show off their beloved collection, right?

Again, what part of the 'old' you still didn't get? I'm not a 13 year old trying to get acceptance of strangers. I don't need to show my 'true otaku/enthusiast' whatever. If this is any kind of projection, do yourself a favor and find some self-love.

[mpcgannon]

Originally posted by nullnilnadanixnaught:

Okay, I understand that you might be a bit hesitant to share your steam play data with a 'stranger', and that's totally fine. No need to get defensive. However, Lyanatiral, your insights on the game caught my attention and as someone who enjoys the Mana series, I'd love to see your collection. Would you be willing to share a photo of your Mana game packages? Just the collection, preferably stacked in front of your PC screen showing this page. After all, any true otaku/enthusiast who says he is dedicated to the series for a long time wouldn’t pass up the chance to show off their beloved collection, right?

Who in their right mind would waste any time on you? Do your parents know you're online!?

[mpcgannon]

Steven Universe is trash.
This op is a review. It should be in reviews, not the forum.

[nullnilnadanixnaught]

Originally posted by LyaranTirel:

Originally posted by nullnilnadanixnaught:

Okay, I understand that you might be a bit hesitant to share your steam play data with a 'stranger', and that's totally fine. No need to get defensive. However, Lyanatiral, your insights on the game caught my attention and as someone who enjoys the Mana series, I'd love to see your collection. Would you be willing to share a photo of your Mana game packages? Just the collection, preferably stacked in front of your PC screen showing this page. After all, any true otaku/enthusiast who says he is dedicated to the series for a long time wouldn’t pass up the chance to show off their beloved collection, right?

Again, what part of the 'old' you still didn't get? I'm not a 13 year old trying to get acceptance of strangers. I don't need to show my 'true otaku/enthusiast' whatever. If this is any kind of projection, do yourself a favor and find some self-love.

What are you so scared of?
https://x.com/JThomasXIII/status/1859991769364275556
https://x.com/TwinRebirth/status/1885720290572849369
These guys do it easily, and you're too afraid to do something simple. What's going on? Do you think I'm going to come after you and hurt you? No way. I don't even own a gun, and I’ve never had one. I'm prolly not on the same continent as you, and I’m definitely not going to waste hundreds of dollars just to hop on a plane and go after you. Or are you worried I'll post your picture on dating sites? Doh. All I'm asking for is proof that you're really the big fan you claim to be, not just some troll lurking around. Is that too much to ask?

[nullnilnadanixnaught]

Originally posted by mpcgannon:

Originally posted by nullnilnadanixnaught:

Okay, I understand that you might be a bit hesitant to share your steam play data with a 'stranger', and that's totally fine. No need to get defensive. However, Lyanatiral, your insights on the game caught my attention and as someone who enjoys the Mana series, I'd love to see your collection. Would you be willing to share a photo of your Mana game packages? Just the collection, preferably stacked in front of your PC screen showing this page. After all, any true otaku/enthusiast who says he is dedicated to the series for a long time wouldn’t pass up the chance to show off their beloved collection, right?

Who in their right mind would waste any time on you? Do your parents know you're online!?

Funny how your comment sounds just like him. Huh. Something felt off right from the beginning. He’s got a level 0 account set to private, which is shady enough on its own. But claiming to be a long time fan while not feeling like sharing his play logs just makes it even more suspicious.

And his posts. Sure, he tries to come off as fair and reasonable, but that troll vibe was leaking out from the very first one. Between the lines, you could feel him itching to dismiss the game right off the bat.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/2490990/discussions/0/596265234378823490/

Given the current state of the board, it’s overrun with trolls. Some who may not have even played the game, and other who's just played it for one or two hours max. Sure, there are also negative comments from people who have actually played, but this guy is fishy, and I just want to make sure he’s not a fake opponent with no real experience. I didn’t want to waste hours arguing just to prove my point to someone like that.

[nullnilnadanixnaught]

Originally posted by LyaranTirel:

I've been told that a great narrative have one THEME and 3 things that hold that theme together: Characters, Ambient and Plot.
Using and easy example, we have Harry Potter. The Theme is magic, the ambient Hogwarts, the Characters are Harry, Hermione and Ron and the plot is the prophecy with Voldemort. In this case we have a great ambient with a school that teaches magic, 3 characters with diferent background of magic (half-blood, muggle-born and pure-blood respectively) and a plot driven by those born within magic society.
Using the same concept lets analise Visions:
Theme: The restoration of Mana by the sacrifice of Alms.
Ambient: A world that is dying because of the weak mana power and will be doomed without alm sacrifice every 4 years.
Characters: All characters have their lives revolved around the pilgrimage of the alms. Val has been training his whole life for it. Careena is a oracle with the responsability to bring the fairy, Morley literally lost everything on the day of the fairy coming, Palamena is the queen of the capital where the alms reunite and are 'blessed' and Julei's like is literally only watering his friends to the day the fairy comes.
The only exception of the rule is Hinna where her life could come or go without having nothing to do with the alms. At best she would have her love interest out for some months before he came back.
Plot: The Soul Guard starts from his village and needs to pilgrimage collecting the Alms to get to the mana tree to sacrifice themselves for the greater good.

So what is the problem?
The problem comes when they throw everything out of the window with the Daelophos 'plot twist'.
First the humans make a mess of the world by abusing mana. Then the Goddess ask for a guy named Daelophos that only wish was to be with his lover to beat the Benevodons. He accept with only one request: Keep her safe. The mana goddesss had ONE JOB. She was not weak by them. She was at full power and couldn't even bother to keep the girl protected by the spirits or send someone to guard her. She literally didn't bother to keep her end of the deal and when the guy came back, he saw that the mana goddess didn't kept her word.
THAT is one fatal flaw of the narrative: Trying to make Daelophos the villan when the goddess was the one at fault in first place.
The guy then do a 180. Since for some reason he couldn't just release the benevodons back he went after the person that promissed to keep his lover safe, but didn't lift a finger for it. He curses the world, the world that without him was ruined by human greed in first place, and tries to beat her but the guardian stopped him? Why didn't the guardian go for the Benevodons then?
Another fatal flaw. If it was that easy, he should be the one to go after the Benevodons for his beloved goddess instead of Daelophos.
It ends up with the guardian dead and the guy sealed. And the goddess was just going to give up because she used all her powers to seal the guy. The remaining humans then said no deal and offered to sacrifice themselves to restore her power every 4 years to keep the curse at bay
So, again, what is the problem with the narrative?
It literally breaks the theme and plot. With MANY plotholes.
Why not sacrifice more people in one go and just get rid of the curse?
Its understandable that the curse part of the myth may be lost with time, but they literally had a PLAY AT LIGHT KINGDOM ABOUT THE GUY. And the fairy went there AND SAID NOTHING? EVERY 4 YEARS?? Was she trying to be kind because she also thought he was wronged by the goddess? I doubt it.

The problem is that the 'plot twist' is not a 'twist'. It breaks the theme of 'The restoration of Mana by the sacrifice of Alms'. They are not really 'restoring' the mana tree with their sacrifice. They are just keeping the curse at bay.
THAT is a flaw.
That is not solving the issue.
That leaves 100 diferent plotholes that could have easily solved the issue but the writers ignored.

And they even try to end with that lesson of 'caring for other and the everyone' while ignoring any fault commited by the goddess nor that instead of looking for an actual solution, they spend ages just patching the problem.

1/4
◆ Why did the Mana Goddess betray Daelophos and break her promise to protect Cerulia, his fiancée? This has to be the biggest plot hole! ◆

I have to say, your words sound exactly like something General Daelophos would say. And I don’t mean that as an insult. No, quite the opposite. You’re capturing his frustration so well that I have to give you credit for it. That’s why I chose to challenge your view.
But before we tackle your main criticism, let’s address the smaller points first.


◆Why not just sacrifice more people at once and eliminate the curse entirely? ◆

That’s not how it works. Alm’s Corestones don’t erase the curse—they contain it. As Khoda explains, the sacrifices help stabilize the Mana Goddess and hold out until they some how figure out how to solve the problem.

The curse itself isn’t just an external force—it’s fueled by Daelophos’ lingering rage. Even sealed, his hatred spreads. The only way to truly end it isn’t through more sacrifices, but by confronting Dealophos directly, which requires a Soul Guard, not just any SG, but some one so pure and almighty that has the power to change fate of worlds.

[nullnilnadanixnaught]

Originally posted by LyaranTirel:

2/4
◆The fairy feels useless and doesn’t contribute to the story. ◆

The fairy could have been handled better—she falls into the common 'withholding information' trope, which can be frustrating. However, her role as a passive observer fits the game’s themes of cycles and fate. She isn’t meant to interfere, only to witness and guide the chosen Soul Guard when the time is right. While the execution has flaws, this doesn’t break the story’s core themes.


◆If Khoda was powerful enough to stop Dealophos, why didn’t he fight the Benevodons instead? ◆

That’s a fair question. The game never explicitly states why Khoda didn’t fight the Benevodons himself, but there’s a logical explanation.

Deapholos was consistently portrayed as the strongest warrior of his era—strong enough to defeat the Benevodons single-handedly, something no one else could do. Meanwhile, Khoda only managed to stop Deapholos with help—likely from Vadis the silver dragon, and perhaps Treant　/ Mana Goddess, or other forces near the Mana Tree, where his power may have been amplified. Despite this, Khoda still lost his life in the battle, while Deapholos survived.

This parallels Val’s final battle against Dealophos. Val didn’t win alone—he had five allies, support from Ramco/Flemmie, the Corestones of Lyza and Eoren, guidance from Khoda’s spirit and the reforged mana sword. Even with all these factors, Deapholos remained a nearly unstoppable force.

So, Khoda simply wasn’t strong enough to fight the Benevodons alone. Deapholos was the only one capable of doing so, which is why the task fell to him.

[nullnilnadanixnaught]

3/4

◆Why did the Mana Goddess betray Dealophos and fail to protect Cerulia? ◆

You argue that one of the biggest flaws in the story is the idea that the Goddess failed Deapholos by not protecting Cerulia. If true, his rage would be justified. But let’s look at the facts.

Nowhere in the game does Dealophos explicitly ask the Goddess to protect Cerulia. It’s easy to assume he would want her safe—anyone in his position would. But assuming a promise was made when the game never states it is a misunderstanding of the narrative.

Additionally, the Goddess wasn’t at full strength. The human wars had already weakened mana, the five worlds of Fa-Diil had collapsed into one Qi-Diil, the mana flow stopped and the Benevodons were wreaking havoc. She was actively using her power to contain the chaos.

The real misunderstanding isn’t just between Dealophos and the Goddess—it’s between Dealophos and the reality of what she was capable of at the time.

[nullnilnadanixnaught]

4/4

◆The ‘plot twist’ isn’t really a twist—it breaks the theme of restoring Mana through the sacrifice of Alms. The sacrifices don’t restore the Mana Tree; they just keep the curse at bay. Isn’t that a flaw? ◆

Yes, the sacrifices don’t truly restore Mana—they only contain Deapholos’ curse. Yes, they aren’t fixing the core problem, just prolonging a failing cycle like chemotherapy for a stage IV cancer patient—not a cure, just a way to slow the decline. But no, that isn’t a flaw—it’s the central theme of the story.

This isn’t a typical “break the cycle” narrative. This isn’t just about overthrowing an empire or destroying an old order. Instead, the game presents a two-way theme:
a) Preserving tradition—honoring the past, maintaining all the things Hinna loves, and valuing what came before.
b) Questioning tradition—learning from different perspectives, growing beyond old beliefs, and making necessary changes.

The real journey isn’t about destroying the cycle, but about reshaping it—finding the right balance between preservation and innovation. While many stories focus on overthrowing oppressive systems―the Evil Empire or the demon lord―this one takes a more nuanced approach: not all traditions should be discarded, but they shouldn’t be followed blindly either.

Julei’s arc is a perfect example of this shift. At first, their passively accepts everything as fate, following the doctrine passed down by the Goddess that the spoutlings should lead quiet lives in their secluded tree village. But after traveling the world and growing alongside his friends, they chooses a different path, not abandoning tradition, but expanding it. Instead of keeping the spoutlings isolated, Julei declares that from now on, they will plant seeds across the world, blending the old ways with a new future.

This is why Khoda passes on the role of Guardian to Val, and why the old Goddess steps down, entrusting her legacy to Hinna. She doesn’t reject the system entirely but embraces a new cycle, one built on a better solution. And the best part is without the influence of Dealophos and Eoren, they never would have reached this conclusion.