Ranged vs Melee?

[Ash//Fox]

Which is better to take?

[Kaaven]

Depends on your playstyle. Melee is more directly useful, as you will need a ranged weapon first, in order to really utilize the Ranged ability. Plus, there are often times when you will be out of ammo.

But if you play it right and prepare in advance, knowing Ranged will really help to kill / wound the enemies from afar, saving you from coming in direct contact with them. That can greatly enhance your survival chances in the long run.

[MissCreep]

I always play with Melee, but everybody has a different playstyle. :D

[pgames-food]

i recently tried a build that used more tracking and hiding with athletic and botany to try it out... getting in close combat wasnt a great idea and without the ranged skill, i had to wait for them to get closer before throwing pebbles and stones - so thats another useful thing with ranged :)

[Elegant Caveman]

Not to say that Melee is a bad choice (far from it), but I'd argue that as a general answer, Ranged is objectively better.

For reference:

http://neoscavenger.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_%28Skill%29

http://neoscavenger.wikia.com/wiki/Ranged

Personally, I use melee combat a lot more than ranged combat, and yet I always take the Ranged skill, but not Melee.

The Ranged skill allows you to craft the same things as the Melee skill (hardened & broad spears), as well as other things (bow & arrows). The Ranged skill also allows you to identify ammo, which can make you a lot of money even if you have no intention of using a firearm.

The Melee skill does give you some very nice bonuses to melee combat, but I find that I do well enough without it (in fairness, I do pretty much always take the Strong skill for its bonus to max encumbrance, which gives a bonus to melee damage).

The Melee skill gives you a special combat move (Leg Trip), but other skills also give you special melee combat moves: Strong (Create Obstacle), Trapping (Lure Into Trap) and Tough (Headbutt). There might be others as well, I'm not sure and I'm too lazy to check. But I usually take Strong & Trapping, so I really don't feel the need for Leg Trip.

I also find that I don't miss melee attacks (without the Melee skill) as I do ranged attacks (even with the Ranged skill), so that's another consideration. The wiki page doesn't mention that the Ranged skill affects to-hit chance, but I'm guessing that it does (if I'm wrong about this, someone please to correct me).

The Melee skill does say it gives you a better chance to hit, so that's something, but I've never felt the need for that. I'd rather be better at range, since it's much easier to miss with ranged attacks. Having the Ranged skill also allows you to use ranged weapons from their maximum range (whereas it's only 50% without the skill).

Basically, unless you're doing a melee-only/melee-focused character, if you have to only pick one of the two, I'd say Ranged is more useful overall.

[PrideGroupIsEvil]

i'm still trying to understand the real value of bleeding your oppenents out. to me it seems the player bleeds out faster than the NPC's. because bleeding out is a serious threat as the player, however i can lacerate an NPC go a LONG time before it really starts to show.

[Elegant Caveman]

I never really pay attention to my death messages, so I'm not sure how often it's due to bloodloss. But I assume that when I black out during combat, it's usually due to severe bleeding.

By the same token, my enemies often end up unconscious before dying, where I have to stab them a few times to finish them off. If I'm right about unconsciousness usually being caused by bleeding, then I'd say making my enemies bleed is quite useful.

I don't quite look at making your opponents bleed as being a goal in itself, though, more as a side-effect of my general/broad "just hurt them a lot" tactic.

Unless you get particularly lucky (inflicting) or unlucky (being inflicted) a really serious wound, I don't think minor/medium bleeding will do much in the short span of a single fight. If you don't stop minor bleeding after a fight and just get on with your life, sure, it'll cause some problems, but it'll take a while. Same with an enemy.

During a fight, a bunch of small wounds (or a few medium/big ones) will add up, and lead to unconsciousness. Can you fall unconscious simply through pain? Maybe, I don't know.

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "real value"...

[Thaxlsyssilyaan]

Most of the blackout are due to pain, not so much by bloodloss.

[Elegant Caveman]

Good to know, thanks.

In which case I can't say bleeding as ever been useful or a problem for me. So I don't have anything to add about that.

[PrideGroupIsEvil]

i mean, i've hit opponents with arrows several times with the intention of letting them bleed out before they get to me so i can use arrows instead of stones and thus save on some weight...but it never works like that. instead the amount of time it takes them to pass out takes me player energy to keep a distance than it does to throw some stones. it seems that in any situation that doesn't involve armor stones are better than arrows. and this bothers me because i really want to use a bow but it seems i'll pass out from running before they bleed out. sure i could put more arrows into them, but then i have to craft those arrows again and it seems that if i wanted to pump more arrows in then i might as well just load stones and chuck away.

[Elegant Caveman]

I think bleeding works on a longer timeframe, not something that will make a significant difference within the context of a single encounter.

I thought blackouts during combat might be due to blood loss, but if that's a pain thing like Thaxlsyssilyaan says, then yeah... don't count on bleeding doing much during a single fight. Looking at the wiki article[neoscavenger.wikia.com], it really sounds like it's more of a long-term thing. Even shock only "severely weakens their physical strength".

So, basically, enough bleeding will weaken an enemy, but won't be a primary factor leading to their death in the short-term; think of it more as an added bonus to whatever other harm you're inflicting.

Stones are great, but the way I see it, the main advantage of arrows is that bows have a longer range, and hold more ammo than a sling. Honestly, in my various runs, I think I've used a sling a lot more than I have a bow, and I've had great success with it. Stones weigh a lot, though, and I'm a pack rat, so once I have a compound bow and enough space to carry a decent stack of arrows, I like to switch to bow use. That tends to be later, though, like mid/late game.

Point being, a sling is an excellent choice in many situations. I think a lot of people underestimate it.

[Thaxlsyssilyaan]

Anyway, even going full arrows will cause pain blackout before bloodloss blackout, from my personnal experience. But like Elegant Caveman said, bow have better range, and thus, indirectly, better accuracy at same distance than sling.

[PrideGroupIsEvil]

Originally posted by FRThaxlsyssilyaan:

Anyway, even going full arrows will cause pain blackout before bloodloss blackout, from my personnal experience. But like Elegant Caveman said, bow have better range, and thus, indirectly, better accuracy at same distance than sling.

meh, thats way i always take athletic. i just sling the stones at range 5

[Elegant Caveman]

Whereas I would never consider taking athletic, too many other things I'd rather have.

What a difference playstyle makes. :)

Honestly, I like both: if I'm travelling light enough that my off-hand is free (pretty rare), I like having a sling ready with the bow on my back.

If you start far enough away, plenty of time to switch to bow. But if you start an encounter at medium range, you can use the sling.

[PrideGroupIsEvil]

Originally posted by Elegant Caveman:

Whereas I would never consider taking athletic, too many other things I'd rather have.

What a difference playstyle makes. :)

Honestly, I like both: if I'm travelling light enough that my off-hand is free (pretty rare), I like having a sling ready with the bow on my back.

If you start far enough away, plenty of time to switch to bow. But if you start an encounter at medium range, you can use the sling.

after dying to a dogman in a marsh while sleeping i always end my encounters and sleep in the open plains now, it's pretty difficult to sneak up on me then so i don't start at medium range anymore anyway

[Elegant Caveman]

Oh, interesting. I've been thinking about that lately, actually. So you wake up at a distance in a field?

I figured that anything that woke you up would only do so once they've gotten close. As such, I've always made sure to sleep in a campsite in a city or scavenged area, hoping for concealment to help.