Advice?: The art of the bow

[PrideGroupIsEvil]

i still can't understand why anyone would use a bow. i suppose the idea is you hit them with some arrows, leave combat (somehow?), and let them bleed out...execpt they have bandages at least from what i've seen them stop bleeding after i leave combat. also, it takes soo much energy to run and escape from combat that it's dangerous.

so please, can a bow enthusiast tell me the playstyle of the bow, and how to make it seem plausible compared to the stopping power of slung stones?

[Neil Breen]

I use the ATN bow quite often. I haven't fought many dogmen with it, but I've killed plenty of humans. I usually keep 15 arrows on me, so I don't run out in combat, but usually I can kill them with 5 arrows or less, or they pass out and I can casually walk up and finish them off with a crowbar or club. I only use it with the Ranged skill though, so I don't know how it compares to unskilled use. I prefer to engage at a range of 15 or more, and like I said, they're usually dead with 5 arrows, unless they're strong and tough, and then it usually only takes a couple more. I've also noticed that sometimes they'll remove the arrow during combat(I only use broadheads), which will injure them further. I don't think I've ever left combat to let them bleed out.

And I like being able to carry 5 arrows "in" the bow as opposed to 2 large rocks.

When I do encounter a dogman, I'll hit and stun with an arrow, run away, and repeat until I'm able to retreat out of combat and run away. I guess it comes down to personal preference. I've used a sling as well, but not quite as often as I use a bow. And I've never come across something that shows how much damage the bow does compared to the sling(not sure if the wiki has that info, haven't checked that in a long time), but I always assumed the bow was a little stronger.

[PrideGroupIsEvil]

Originally posted by Jeeub:

I use the ATN bow quite often. I haven't fought many dogmen with it, but I've killed plenty of humans. I usually keep 15 arrows on me, so I don't run out in combat, but usually I can kill them with 5 arrows or less, or they pass out and I can casually walk up and finish them off with a crowbar or club. I only use it with the Ranged skill though, so I don't know how it compares to unskilled use. I prefer to engage at a range of 15 or more, and like I said, they're usually dead with 5 arrows, unless they're strong and tough, and then it usually only takes a couple more. I've also noticed that sometimes they'll remove the arrow during combat(I only use broadheads), which will injure them further. I don't think I've ever left combat to let them bleed out.

And I like being able to carry 5 arrows "in" the bow as opposed to 2 large rocks.

When I do encounter a dogman, I'll hit and stun with an arrow, run away, and repeat until I'm able to retreat out of combat and run away. I guess it comes down to personal preference. I've used a sling as well, but not quite as often as I use a bow. And I've never come across something that shows how much damage the bow does compared to the sling(not sure if the wiki has that info, haven't checked that in a long time), but I always assumed the bow was a little stronger.

slung stones are lethal. once in a while you get very lucky and get a one shot, but with stones it goes like this. i start combat with 2 stones loaded and ready. doesn't matter what the range is, as long as i don't start at a range of 3 i have nothing to fear because of the stun potential of this weapon. i get to 5-4 to avoid most misses, and sling. 95% of the time the opponent is stunned from the force and pain, and that leaves them open for shot number 2. i'd say it take on average 4 stones before i can walk up and finish them off, sometimes 6 sometimes only 2. so far the only down side is that if you start off far away you might not be able to sling at them before they have a chance to run away. but once you get the first stun in their done. i can see armor being a problem on DMC guards, dogman resist and occasional stun.

the style you decribed just now, seems better suited to stones because you then don't have to run away with the stuns...but you also got the range. thing is, i haven't once seen bleeding to be useful to anyone but the NPC's bleeding the player out. to me it's lethal to bleed during combat but these NPC's just keep going when they bleed for a long long long time. at least, if i'm not trying to spent 7 arrows...but combat nature of stones seems more efficient since you can just put them on your vehicle and have a few on your person.

[Neil Breen]

I'll have to try out the sling some more I suppose. It'd be nice not to have to lug around the materials to make new arrows. It sounds like the strategy is pretty similar though. It takes me anywhere from 2 to 6 or 7 arrows to finish an enemy off. And the only time I really use the stun and run is when an enemy approaches in my sleep and starts within a range of 3 or so. Otherwise I'm usually far off and am able to safely take care of them.

I do agree though that it seems more dangerous to bleed out for me then it does for NPCs. I can't recall ever seeing an enemy die from bleeding alone. Even if I knock them unconscious at a range of 20 and slowly walk towards them. I always end up finishing them off another way.

[PrideGroupIsEvil]

Originally posted by Jeeub:

I'll have to try out the sling some more I suppose. It'd be nice not to have to lug around the materials to make new arrows. It sounds like the strategy is pretty similar though. It takes me anywhere from 2 to 6 or 7 arrows to finish an enemy off. And the only time I really use the stun and run is when an enemy approaches in my sleep and starts within a range of 3 or so. Otherwise I'm usually far off and am able to safely take care of them.

I do agree though that it seems more dangerous to bleed out for me then it does for NPCs. I can't recall ever seeing an enemy die from bleeding alone. Even if I knock them unconscious at a range of 20 and slowly walk towards them. I always end up finishing them off another way.

i want to like the bow, i think ill try to make an effort to ditch the stones. i can't use guns though, everytime i use a bullet i feel like i wasted a rare item

[Ptolemy]

Arrows are lighter than stones, shoot farther than stones can be slung, load into a bow five at a time so that you have one third the wasted moves reloading you'd have using sling stones, and are trivial to craft if you have the skill. They also penetrate armour unlike stones, and you can sling a bow over your back, saving you room in your bag early on. As Jeeub noted, enemies will waste turns injuring themselves by tearing arrows out of their bodies, as well.

You don't need to run at all. Just use bows the same way you use slings. Shoot as soon as you can until the enemy is dead. Bows are more or less direct upgrades over slings in my experience; no real reason not to use one if you've the Ranged skill. Though the fact that slings are still fairly powerful and don't require skill in Ranged makes them useful enough as a ranged option that switching to a bow isn't essential.

[PrideGroupIsEvil]

so it's not as bad as i thought it was, once i got over the idea of trying to bleed my opponent out. it really is tipped to the NPC's favor there and i don't know if it was intentional or not but from a practical standpoint you have to use the bow not like a patient bleed tool but just something to spam when the time is right.

[Qwar]

Slings are good against enemies that you can easily kill with one or two stones, but against dogmen or DMC guards you're going to need arrows to pierce their defenses, and more than two shots to damage them enough.

Also the arrows range lets you know if you're going to get to melee with the upper hand or not. By the time you can sling two stones and recharge, they're pretty much on top of you.

[PrideGroupIsEvil]

Originally posted by Qwar:

Slings are good against enemies that you can easily kill with one or two stones, but against dogmen or DMC guards you're going to need arrows to pierce their defenses, and more than two shots to damage them enough.

Also the arrows range lets you know if you're going to get to melee with the upper hand or not. By the time you can sling two stones and recharge, they're pretty much on top of you.

this is false, i use stones as my only weapon even when fighting 3 bandits or two dogmen. the bow may be better, but about your last sentence...

it's just wrong. if you take athletic it's a suitable primary/only weapon for a ranged character becuase the stun from the stones (don't use pebbles it's just a headache) allows you to either a) throw another stone for an almost promised hit or b) get some distance.

but now that i am forcing my self to use the bow (compound with hunting arrows/crude broadheads) i see the stun effect is still there. so i get some increased range with the same bonus... my only complaint is for non-armored targets the stones do much more blunt damage. so if for some reason you have both weapons, use the slung stone on anything with 0 armor armor (like bad mutha,a nd blue frogs i think)

[Qwar]

Not everybody takes athletic.

[PrideGroupIsEvil]

Originally posted by Qwar:

Not everybody takes athletic.

true, but you didn't explain that you don't in your post either.

[Ptolemy]

Originally posted by Layarion:

so it's not as bad as i thought it was, once i got over the idea of trying to bleed my opponent out. it really is tipped to the NPC's favor there and i don't know if it was intentional or not but from a practical standpoint you have to use the bow not like a patient bleed tool but just something to spam when the time is right.

Pretty much. Heavy bleeding often will actually kill an NPC as they're walking around on the overmap, as I don't believe they make any effort at all to treat it, but you don't need to bother with that. Cutting wounds are perfectly capable of stunlocking/outright killing opponents.

[PrideGroupIsEvil]

meh, i still like stones more...but only because a 100% hunting arrow that succesfully hits gets lost forever simply because the NPC didn't pull it out before he dies.

so stones take up way less space and loosing one doesnt matter because you can find them anywhere. arrows are good for armor

[Ptolemy]

Arrows only get lost if they miss entirely, and if you have Ranged as a skill it doesn't matter if you lose them, either, as you can create an unlimited amount of them from materials that are stupidly easy to find.

[PrideGroupIsEvil]

Originally posted by Brendan:

Arrows only get lost if they miss entirely

ill bet you 5 steam wallet dollars your wrong

[Ptolemy]

Far as I can tell, you can always recover arrows as long as they don't break from use on impact or miss their target. But even if I am wrong, it doesn't matter since you can produce infinite amounts of them with Ranged.