Why the officers will reset their ranks from the highest level to the freshman?

[COMMANDO]

It has been many times that I saw my previous officers ranked freshman, it`s awful

[Maj. Boyd "Bible" Swan [2nd AD]]

hello are you sure you havent played campaign? if someone die in campaign he will die and they will give you new troop freshman

[Vanta]

If a troop dies in campaign he dies permanantly and his skills reset.

[kitzschy]

Great to discover this just before getting a full team of Lieutenants. Really looking forward to grinding them up by replaying all the single missions again.

On top of that, didn't even finish the Campaign and have to start it too from the beginning? Oh hooray, loving this game right now.

[Timerlane]

As long as you don't tick the 'Ironman' box when starting a campaign, you can always choose to replay the current mission(in order to change the results, whether that be trooper deaths, lack of stars, etc).

Only when you accept the results of a mission does anything become permanent.

[axios2006]

Originally posted by Timerlane:

As long as you don't tick the 'Ironman' box when starting a campaign, you can always choose to replay the current mission(in order to change the results, whether that be trooper deaths, lack of stars, etc).

Only when you accept the results of a mission does anything become permanent.

Exactly.

[kitzschy]

Originally posted by Timerlane:

As long as you don't tick the 'Ironman' box when starting a campaign, you can always choose to replay the current mission(in order to change the results, whether that be trooper deaths, lack of stars, etc).

Only when you accept the results of a mission does anything become permanent.

Wasn't playing Iron Man.

Not sure if I hit "Continue", "Back to Main Menu", "Quit Game" or what exactly after failing the final mission for the nth time due to some UI-related ef-up, as at that point I was pretty done with the game for the day and just wanted to close it. Feel free to call me an idiot for not knowing things that haven't been stated anywhere, but after 100+ hours with the game I still had no idea it would make any difference which route I take back to the main menu and/or my desktop from there.

So somehow I still got the Steam achievement for finishing the campaign, even though at that point I had never completed the final mission successfully (a hostage died in my last attempt, as in all previous ones). Also got zero stars from the campaign in question and had to start it over from the beginning to get any of those. Not sure if the game glitched somehow or if I'm just not entirely following its logic there.

Obviously I was already aware that injuries (and by that logic, deaths too) carry over *within the same campaign*, but the game wasn't at all clear about campaigns having *game-wide* permadeath that carries over everywhere else too from the campaigns, even outside Iron Man.

I'd already finished a few of the easier campaigns, dying plenty in them too, but that never became an issue as I just retried each mission until I got a 3-star result.

I'd also previously 3-starred all the single missions before even starting with the campaigns, and for those you only keep the XP and stars gained, while deaths and injuries are nullified once you're done with the mission. IMO the logical thing is to expect something consistent with and similar to that once the campaign is over, so I don't think I'm being particularly silly or unreasonable when this permadeath thing comes to me as a bit of a surprise.

No mention of this in "How to Play" or any "Mission Briefing" either, as far as I can tell.

I just don't really get the whole purpose of being even able to accept permadeath and failure (outside of Iron Man anyway), especially after a final mission of a campaign, instead of just attempting again. Who would ever intentionally do so and why exactly? There's a lot I really like in the game, but almost everything I don't has to do with some (lacking) UI feature and/or questionable design choice that often make it pretty frustrating, if not outright infuriating. I'd much rather the greatest challenge be in fighting the enemy AI than the game UI.

(Yes, I know it's not trivial to solve all those and make a perfect UI for every imaginable scenario. Still I feel there's some really low-hanging fruit in just making the UI a bit more robust and flexible, so that the rewarding moments when everything works like a clockwork, just as intended, could be a bit more common than the frequent frustration from losing several minutes of meticulous plotting due to one misclick, with no undo or other option but to redo the same thing again, and stuff like that. Having pulled my hair with plenty of those moments it was just a totally unnecessary cherry on the top to permanently lose a fifth of my team and total XP due to a surprise permadeath mechanic that the game is really opaque about.)

/rant

Anyway, luckily it didn't take as long as I feared to get the fresh troops up to Lieutenant by grinding killhouse missions, and got the rest of my team leveled up too while at it. Already re-did the campaign in question as well, so only a couple more of those to go. Hopefully no more curveball surprises before they are are done.

[IvantheFormidable]

Originally posted by kitzschy:

I just don't really get the whole purpose of being even able to accept permadeath and failure (outside of Iron Man anyway), especially after a final mission of a campaign, instead of just attempting again. Who would ever intentionally do so and why exactly?

I don't always play ironman, but if I do an interesting run where I lose a trooper, but still accomplish the objective, I'm usually alright with the results. Not everything has to be perfect, so for me it adds a bit more to the story aspect rather than having this immortal team of officers.

[kitzschy]

Originally posted by IvantheFormidable:

Originally posted by kitzschy:

I just don't really get the whole purpose of being even able to accept permadeath and failure (outside of Iron Man anyway), especially after a final mission of a campaign, instead of just attempting again. Who would ever intentionally do so and why exactly?

I don't always play ironman, but if I do an interesting run where I lose a trooper, but still accomplish the objective, I'm usually alright with the results. Not everything has to be perfect, so for me it adds a bit more to the story aspect rather than having this immortal team of officers.

Sure, it would just be nice to know going in, especially when one is still trying to max level the entire team for the Steam achievement. Losing up to tens of hours of progress irreversibly due to some surprise mechanic is just the kind of a thing I'd abandon a game for and never look back. A huge no-no for a game of any kind, unless you're intentionally playing something gambling-related and knowingly take that risk of losing a lot of your time/work/money.

It's not that games can't have surprises, even ones that involve losses, but if the result is having to spend hours and hours of my time tediously grinding with some pretty repetitive and uninteresting content just to get back where I was before, then it's a pretty big "ef you" from the developers, and I don't see why I'd feel any more cordially about them after such a design decision, assuming it's made that way intentionally.

I've already paid them money for the time they spent working with the game. I'd like for them to conversely value the time I spend playing mine enough to not throw it away like it's worth nothing.

[IvantheFormidable]

Originally posted by kitzschy:

Originally posted by IvantheFormidable:

I don't always play ironman, but if I do an interesting run where I lose a trooper, but still accomplish the objective, I'm usually alright with the results. Not everything has to be perfect, so for me it adds a bit more to the story aspect rather than having this immortal team of officers.

Sure, it would just be nice to know going in, especially when one is still trying to max level the entire team for the Steam achievement.

As far as I'm aware, the game does make you aware of that in the beginning. I recall it not being worded super well, but it was there.

[SDX]

kitzcschy, I just joined in on the rant with the "Escape no confirmation dialog" post. I blame 100% the UI.

This "Esc" UI problem has clearly caused countless permanent damage to players. Together with a number of other UI annoyances, this game goes from lovely chill-experience to an excercise in frustration management. Stupid, as the game itself is good, just the UI limitations make me furious.

[COMMANDO]

Thanks for all your explanation .I played the compaign again and found the died operators disappeared . I will train them again. By the way, have you guys bought DOOR KICKER II ? Is it interesting ?

[IvantheFormidable]

Originally posted by COMMANDO:

Thanks for all your explanation .I played the compaign again and found the died operators disappeared . I will train them again. By the way, have you guys bought DOOR KICKER II ? Is it interesting ?

DK2 is currently more rough around the edges than DK1, however a lot of the mechanics around movement and CQB works a lot better already, imo. I especially like the change to a military setting, considering the whole shoot on sight thing. It's still pretty early access, but I think it'll be quite good in a couple of months.

[axios2006]

Originally posted by COMMANDO:

Thanks for all your explanation .I played the compaign again and found the died operators disappeared . I will train them again. By the way, have you guys bought DOOR KICKER II ? Is it interesting ?

Hi,

first of all, DK1 is swat operations, DK2 is military operations.

DK2 has a full 3D engine with destructible environment. Improved path planning, more weapons variety (machine guns, grenade launchers, wall breaching charges), 4 player coop and in the future, medics and other gameplay mechanics.