About hollow point bullets

[Vasyan100pro]

Can you explain the difference between hitting an arm with a piercing bullet versus an HP bullet, and also the difference between HP bullet calibers?

[Kuzako]

Hollow points(HP) open up upon impact with a surface, such as a body. and this creates drag, slowing the bullet and causing more damage as it opens a larger wound channel.

Soft points(SP) rounds have a soft, polymer tip, that acts as a middle ground between HP and FMJs. The still open up, but not nearly as much.

Full Metal Jacket(FMJ) hold their shape and have overall high penetration, but hard surfaces such as armor or walls will cause deformation.

Armor Piercing(AP) Holds it's shape when hitting harder surfaces, but will pass through soft targets causing less damage as they hold their shape and conserve energy and speed.

Anything with '+P' on them are over pressured meaning they have more powder in the casing and will have higher muzzle velocity.

This is all real world knowledge, I know a good bit translates, but I'm not sure just how deep it goes.

Calibers are just the diameter of the bullet by the length of the cartridge. Rifle rounds are best for harder targets such as armor because the the smaller the round and the faster it moves the better chance of ripping an armor plate and breaking apart in the soft flesh behind it.

[Ottomic]

Originally posted by Vasyan100pro:

Can you explain the difference between hitting an arm with a piercing bullet versus an HP bullet, and also the difference between HP bullet calibers?

I unfortunately could not find detailed information on terminal ballistics in this game, but I did find this which, by description, seems to currently have reverted to just pen/no pen, but should eventually be updated with more detailed information on impacts.

The wiki[gray-zone-warfare.fandom.com] has some information, and then there's also this[www.zleague.gg] which seems to be pretty complete but I'll be honest, reeks of AI slop, and this[insider-gaming.com] which is more of a promotional blurb and I'm not sure how it reflects on the current state of the game. However, as far as I've been able to gather, terminal ballistics *should* be approximate to real life, which is:

Each bullet has a muzzle velocity, a mass, and a material. All of these combined, plus length of the barrel that it's shot from and distance to target result in a penetrative power that basically boils down to what armor grade can defeat it. When you "inspect" a stack of ammo, it'll tell you what can be expected to stop it, but that's just orientative. If it hits armor and it successfully stops the bullet, it can still hurt the organs and bones behind it, but that's it.

If it does penetrate, it will create a wound channel based on the energy the round had at the point of impact, and the type of bullet. As far as I understand it, this wound channel basically acts as an AoE for damaging organs around said point. A fast, penetrative bullet has better chances of just punching through, and is likely the reason you'll see people complaining about the AI tanking several rounds before dropping dead.

Finally, of course, if the bullet directly hits an organ, it will deal the most damage, and likely destroy it. Destroyed liver/brain/heart/lungs = dead.

All of this means to say that if you're hit in the arms with *any* bullet it has a pretty good chance to break it regardless of the type as long as it hits the bone, lol, but a hollow point has the best chance to break it instead of grazing it, and it will do the most internal damage if it hits torso... assuming there's no armor to stop it.

There's an official site on ballistics here[www.grayzonewarfare.net] that is being updated but should go live soon™ I guess.

[Ghost]

Originally posted by Kuzako_Avali:

Hollow points(HP) open up upon impact with a surface, such as a body. and this creates drag, slowing the bullet and causing more damage as it opens a larger wound channel.

Soft points(SP) rounds have a soft, polymer tip, that acts as a middle ground between HP and FMJs. The still open up, but not nearly as much.

Full Metal Jacket(FMJ) hold their shape and have overall high penetration, but hard surfaces such as armor or walls will cause deformation.

Armor Piercing(AP) Holds it's shape when hitting harder surfaces, but will pass through soft targets causing less damage as they hold their shape and conserve energy and speed.

Anything with '+P' on them are over pressured meaning they have more powder in the casing and will have higher muzzle velocity.

This is all real world knowledge, I know a good bit translates, but I'm not sure just how deep it goes.

Calibers are just the diameter of the bullet by the length of the cartridge. Rifle rounds are best for harder targets such as armor because the the smaller the round and the faster it moves the better chance of ripping an armor plate and breaking apart in the soft flesh behind it.

What kills me inside is they call m855 armor peircing even thought it's a fmj

[Kuzako]

Originally posted by Ghost:

What kills me inside is they call m855 armor peircing even thought it's a fmj

It would actually be AP because it has a steel core.

[AndoArgyll]

Originally posted by Kuzako_Avali:

Originally posted by Ghost:

What kills me inside is they call m855 armor peircing even thought it's a fmj

It would actually be AP because it has a steel core.

Only according to US gun laws. In military terms and applications it isn’t an AP round. Neither is M855a1.

[Kuzako]

Originally posted by AndoArgyll:

Originally posted by Kuzako_Avali:

It would actually be AP because it has a steel core.

Only according to US gun laws. In military terms and applications it isn’t an AP round. Neither is M855a1.

"Purpose: Developed as a NATO-standard round (SS109) to improve penetration at distance against helmet and body armor."

Not a specialized AP round, but was designed to pierce armor

[cobruh]

i couldnt find any difference between using FMJ, AP and HP/SP vs unarmored.
ive been trying to use less performing calibers like remington and 9mm vs higher tier enemies and tried to shoot them in the abdomen and legs with sp and hp to see how good the bleedout is, but i couldnt notice a difference.
i then used the mp5sd with a mag of xtreme penetrator and one with hollow point, walked out of the base into the first area which has the lowest level, easiest and dumbest enemies. i shot the the two guys on the street in the abdomen, one with xpen and one with hp (one single bullet each) and both bled out in the same timeframe (delayed by the time it took to reload the other mag). obviously HP doesnt even work. just use FMJ or AP

[Vasyan100pro]

Originally posted by cobruh:

i couldnt find any difference between using FMJ, AP and HP/SP vs unarmored.
ive been trying to use less performing calibers like remington and 9mm vs higher tier enemies and tried to shoot them in the abdomen and legs with sp and hp to see how good the bleedout is, but i couldnt notice a difference.
i then used the mp5sd with a mag of xtreme penetrator and one with hollow point, walked out of the base into the first area which has the lowest level, easiest and dumbest enemies. i shot the the two guys on the street in the abdomen, one with xpen and one with hp (one single bullet each) and both bled out in the same timeframe (delayed by the time it took to reload the other mag). obviously HP doesnt even work. just use FMJ or AP

Higher calibers are useless aswell, 5.45 and 5.56 ap still superior

[cobruh]

Originally posted by Vasyan100pro:

Originally posted by cobruh:

i couldnt find any difference between using FMJ, AP and HP/SP vs unarmored.
ive been trying to use less performing calibers like remington and 9mm vs higher tier enemies and tried to shoot them in the abdomen and legs with sp and hp to see how good the bleedout is, but i couldnt notice a difference.
i then used the mp5sd with a mag of xtreme penetrator and one with hollow point, walked out of the base into the first area which has the lowest level, easiest and dumbest enemies. i shot the the two guys on the street in the abdomen, one with xpen and one with hp (one single bullet each) and both bled out in the same timeframe (delayed by the time it took to reload the other mag). obviously HP doesnt even work. just use FMJ or AP

Higher calibers are useless aswell, 5.45 and 5.56 ap still superior

true

[Wolf]

From a RL understanding:
- HP splays or mushrooms outwards upon impact and increases the wound channel diameter. This gives them exceptional stopping power against unprotected targets by creating larger holes in tissue. The trade off is greater energy transfer upon impact resulting in lowering penetration, this makes HP ideal for confined spaces, self defence, and minimising over-penetration.
- SP are your everyday hunting rounds as they allow for a more controlled expansion of the projectile and are exceptional at shooting things like Kangaroos or Pigs. They have a good degree of penetrating soft tissue but also do not change trajectory as easily inside the body and do not ricochet inside as often .
- FMJ are your standard fare munition used for target practice or cheap ammo. They have a lead core (cheaper than steel for kinetic energy) so pack a kinetic punch and thus do penetrate fairly well but create smaller wound channels. As they retain their shape fairly well they also tend to follow a curvalinear path through soft tissue and if they hit bone have been known to occasionaly ricochet to another part of the body.
- Steel core (AP) and high velocity (HV) rounds are specialised for increasing penetration and tend to tear/shred tissue better from increased cavitation. Their biggest drawback as expected is barrel wear from the imparted kinetic energy required to increase velocity.
- Sub-sonic munitions as another specialised type generally come in a varient of HP that is heavier to ensure carrying sufficient kinetic energy to the target IOT increase stopping power and be effective against unarmoured targets whilst travelling below the speed of sound and thus 'quieter'.

Everything is a trade-off:
- Projectile mass and kinetic energy vs larger calibur weapons/weight/employment
- Velocity and shot distance for increasing/decreasing kinetic energy impact and damage
- Projectile expansion and subsequent wound channel size vs penetration (and potential ricochets inside the body)

If this game is replicating projectiles accurately (not always in my experience):
- FMJ should be your weakest ammo type cuasing the least damage with decent penetration and would not break a bone unless directly impacted
- HP and SP to unprotected parts of the body would do increaased damage with the least penetration, on a limb the damage would be amplified (particularly higher velocities/calibur) and the bone broken even without direct impact
- The higher the calibur the greater the kinetic energy and thus damage with penetration plus higher likelihood of breaking a bone
- The higher the velocity and more specialised the projectile design the greater the penetration and damage should be including breaking/smashing bone

[Ironwithin]

In Gray Zone, hollow point and soft point is the "cheap" ammo you can get away with using against unarmored enemies like the gangsters in your starter town.
At the beginning you don't have much access to high-penetration ammo and you don't need it so you get to use the cheaper stuff.
In higher-tier areas where enemies wear bodyarmor/helmets you have to penetrate that armor or shoot the unarmored face high enough to hit the brain.

The damagemodel is not terribly realistic right now because you can shoot an AI several times in their legs, arms, pelvis/stomach or even the neck/jaw and they still live on because you didn't hit a vital organ (brain,heart,lungs).
They will bleed out eventually but it can take a long time while they still shoot at you.

No real need to worry about which round has better terminal ballistics or anything. You either penetrate a vital organ or you don't. Hitting them in the arm with HP is effectively the same as hitting them with AP.

This is one of the reasons for the "AI too tanky!" complains.


The different calibers of ammunition dictate which guns can be loaded with it. A 5.56 Rifle cannot use 5.45 ammo. A 7.62x39 rifle cannot use 7.62x51 ammo.
One tricky thing to watch out for is that the 5.56 magazines can be loaded with .300blk so you can use one type of magazines for different-caliber guns. A 5.56 rifle will not work with .300blk ammo, though and vice versa.