tiger bay first impression: wtf ai

[George]

so this is my first time entering tiger bay and it ended in death... so here's how it went:

I ran from india 2 to juliet 1, then directly towards a road leading to tiger bay. there was an AI by a house. I kill him. Next thing I know I'm fighting like 7 dudes that join the fight, and I watched one dude run a circle around this field of crops to my position, essentially circumnavigating a grid just to kill me. What even is that lol

[Pindie]

ArmedGhost- a écrit :

If the AI wasn't difficult, this game would be boring. The extreme challenge and difficulty is what makes the game fun. Don't see why players can one shot AI, but when AI does it, it's unfair. AI present an actual threat that players don't know how to deal with.

The casual player base needs to go find another game to play instead of trying to run this game into the ground with their complaints about the game being too difficult.

This reminds me of Ready or Not. The extreme difficulty chases playerbase away and game is dead within a year.

[ArmedGhost-]

UnwieldyRex a écrit :

ArmedGhost- a écrit :

If the AI wasn't difficult, this game would be boring. The extreme challenge and difficulty is what makes the game fun. Don't see why players can one shot AI, but when AI does it, it's unfair. AI present an actual threat that players don't know how to deal with.

The casual player base needs to go find another game to play instead of trying to run this game into the ground with their complaints about the game being too difficult.

1) There's a difference between a fun challenging and an absolutely absurd challenging.

Earlier today, my friend and I tried going for the TB Mall, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too many enemies aggro'd and pushed. We holed up in a building. We had so many AI in one condensed place it was causing FPS drops (even more than normal for TB), causing server lag/desync, etc. By the time we fought out of it, we had a literally mountain of probably close to 60 or 70 corpse laying at the door itself, probably another 20 enemies in the yard another 30 feet away from the door. This isn't accounting for the fact that we had already killed another 30-40 prior to holing up in that house.... I think they only AI that didn't aggro and push us were the ones towards HQ/Refugee Camp. Every one I play with brings at least 12 stacks of ammo to TB, my friend brought 12 and I brought 15. All said and done, he was on his last MAG, and I have a stack and a half with three full 60 round mags. Tell what part of this is a fun challenge? It was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and all it will EVER be is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

2) It's pretty much proven at this point that AI are scripted for one hit kills. Want proof? Have you tried shotguns? Pistols? US 7.62 ammo? Ever actually tried using a VZ machine pistol? All of these will require mag dumps and then some when used on an AI even in starter town, regardless of aim point, distance, etc. When AI use them? Instant death or death within 5 rounds if the first doesn't get you (in the case of the VZ).

3) The one tapping? There's a difference between a player strategically holding breath, utilizing a 6x+ scope, and patiently waiting for a shot versus an AI hip firing, while strafing, while being pelted with bullets, and drive a NAIL straight through the middle of your brain. I have been hit in the hand and it somehow miraculously destroyed EVERY SINGLE ONE of my internal organs. How does that happen? I could see a pass through hand and hit lung. I could see a pass through hand and hit heart. I could see a pass through hand and do a lung and heart. I could see a pass through hand and hit stomach. What I don't believe in, is getting hit in the hand and getting hit in the brain. What I really don't believe in is passing through the hand and dying from lung, heart, stomach AND brain damage all in one go.

There's a big difference between walking away from a fire fight and saying "wow, what a fight, that was an absolute thrill and had me on my seat the entire time" and walking away from an entire situation saying "wtf was up with that? wtf is going on? that was complete bs."

Plenty of times me and my squad have been through Fort Narith and Tiger Bay then talking about how engaging the fights were after we got out and discussing how well we worked together as a crew. Far too many casual players expect their hand to be held and the game to be easy or complain because for once AI are actually a threat to players.

[wrecklass]

Have you tried testing Hotfix #5 on the test servers. AI is supposed to be considerably different between solo and squad attackers.

[UnwieldyRex]

ArmedGhost- a écrit :

Plenty of times me and my squad have been through Fort Narith and Tiger Bay then talking about how engaging the fights were after we got out and discussing how well we worked together as a crew. Far too many casual players expect their hand to be held and the game to be easy or complain because for once AI are actually a threat to players.

I;ve had plenty of fun and engaging firefight in TB. It's just occasionally there is random bouts of bs. There should never be a reason why a squad has to burn through their entire ammo supply before they even move away from one house not even a quarter of the way to the actual POI. There's engaging firefights and there is having to commit a massacre just to move 10 feet. I'm not asking for a hand to be held. I'm not asking to make AI easier. I just simply want a more CONSISTENT AI with more solidified rules. As of right now, AI seem to ignore accuracy, ignore dispersion, ignore armors, an all knowing complex of EXACTLY where you are when you fire a shot, breaking line of sight is virtually impossible since they see through bushes like they don't even exist, and then pull pinpoint shots while moving and hipfiring? Naw.

I understand they are just placeholders and eventually they are going to get tweaked, but even for placeholders: how the hell did the ♥♥♥♥ slide past initial review?

[Mazataza]

ArmedGhost- a écrit :

I have soloed 4 tasks in Tiger Bay, It's difficult, but not broken.
AI isn't perfect, but people who blame broken AI for their deaths instead of their own tactics are the problem.

Once AI get your location and gain LOS, they will aggressively hunt you and fire in your general direction which is why it's important to always rotate after being spotted. Never continue firing from a position once you've been spotted and they start taking shots, you will get hit; unless you're in a squad where a squad made can send rounds down range. Also, you need to make sure your aim is on point, missing a headshot could be your death.

AI are actually a threat which most people can't handle. Glad the AI presents an actual challenge and glad to read that the devs will be keeping this level of challenge in the game. I like how AI can land shots or kills on players as if they are other player PMCs.

Operating in areas like Tiger Bay actually takes skill, general knowledge of AI behavior, tactics and coordination in working within a squad.

Overall, I think the biggest issue is the AI in Grayzone is they are actual threats and present challenges that players don't know how to deal with or approach, so they blame the game instead of improving on their tactics or approach to the area.

It's hard to agree that AI is broken when myself and squad mates I play with have all operated in Tiger bay completing tasks without any of us getting downed or killed. It's just takes a cohesive, well organized crew to go into together.

I Agree with 90% what your write, but AI should not know exactly where you are in cm percission when you kill one AI and they can aiming you from long distance a headshot wiht hipfire.
if you got shots by AI or Player you dont know exactly where the shot come from what we do we look arround and try to see the enamy. AI after getting shot, they instancely looking directly toward you and start firing. this also not realistic in a realistic game.
Yes AI should be clever and hard, but overpowered.
from distance hipfire never accurate.

[BBsquid]

"They do not track you through bushes or walls. "

Nice try, sparky...but they most certainly track you through walls.
My buddy and I have been work FN, northern hole by the barracks from D3. we take either side of the hole and alternate engagements--essentially, one draws fire while the other lights up whoever bites.
My boy got clipped good once and dropped back from the hole a significant distance. AI had no LOS on him, and i watched their shots hit the wall (on their side) and "walk" along the wall, following him. They were most certainly tracking him through the wall.

Overall though, I agree the AI is pretty good, yet not perfect. I with agree also that generally speaking..if you get clipped or greased...you done frakked up.

it tickles me that so many whine here about getting one shotted by the AI despite the fact theyve one shotted dozens and dozens of bots....and think they are :l33t:

[Simon]

If this game can only be played by teams, it is a very bad design. This game is not SWAT.

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Simon a écrit :

If this game can only be played by teams, it is a very bad design. This game is not SWAT.

I can solo every single area in this game. Who says it can only be played by teams?

Learn to think tactically.

[Simon]

Legion® a écrit :

Simon a écrit :

If this game can only be played by teams, it is a very bad design. This game is not SWAT.

I can solo every single area in this game. Who says it can only be played by teams?

Learn to think tactically.

You can often go around the tiger city alone and live out . You are really amazing.

[=TAC= Stuermer]

Sure you can survive the bots with tactical thinking.

But you shouldn't have to think about stuff that isn't possible irl. Like insta-spotting a single camoflaged prone soldier in the jungle from 100 m away within 1.5 seconds and headshotting him without aiming.

The goal should be a fair, challenging AI that overcomes bad tactical behaviour of players with effective tactical behaviour of AI teamplay. Not just crank up spotting and accuracy and conveniently leaving foliage out of the equation for bots.

That's fine for an EA title. Now devs have got some nice $ 30 mio., they should work on better AI, so it's challenging in a good way and rewards real tactical behaviour while punishing gunrunning.

[d3Sync]

ArmedGhost- a écrit :

I have soloed 4 tasks in Tiger Bay, It's difficult, but not broken.
AI isn't perfect, but people who blame broken AI for their deaths instead of their own tactics are the problem.

Once AI get your location and gain LOS, they will aggressively hunt you and fire in your general direction which is why it's important to always rotate after being spotted. Never continue firing from a position once you've been spotted and they start taking shots, you will get hit; unless you're in a squad where a squad made can send rounds down range. Also, you need to make sure your aim is on point, missing a headshot could be your death.

AI are actually a threat which most people can't handle. Glad the AI presents an actual challenge and glad to read that the devs will be keeping this level of challenge in the game. I like how AI can land shots or kills on players as if they are other player PMCs.

Operating in areas like Tiger Bay actually takes skill, general knowledge of AI behavior, tactics and coordination in working within a squad.

Overall, I think the biggest issue is the AI in Grayzone is they are actual threats and present challenges that players don't know how to deal with or approach, so they blame the game instead of improving on their tactics or approach to the area.

It's hard to agree that AI is broken when myself and squad mates I play with have all operated in Tiger bay completing tasks without any of us getting downed or killed. It's just takes a cohesive, well organized crew to go into together.

Just because AI is difficult, and people CAN complete tasks when faced with such difficulty, doesn't mean there aren't times where the AI is broken.

AI rounding a corner, running, hip fire, one shot to the head from 100m is broken. On occasion, you hit AI 20 times and they do not die, nor bleed out, and that's obviously broken, you hit AI in the head, they spin on you hip fire shred you from 150m, while you are prone, suppressed, in a bush, while their back was turned... then died after one second. That's broken. The developers even admitted that they have work to do with the AI.

So.. those people who are blaming AI for their death aren't necessarily blaming AI for ALL of their deaths. Just the deaths that are ridiculous. Like AI spawning inside walls and stairs. Like invisible AI. Like AI killing you while not even looking at you. And those are the instances that those people want fixed.

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ArmedGhost- a écrit :

Just because AI is difficult, and people CAN complete tasks when faced with such difficulty, doesn't mean there aren't times where the AI is broken.

I can agree with this. But at the same time, you all neglect the FACT that this game is in PRE ALPHA and was released maybe a month ago. Tweaking AI behavior to work perfectly does not come in a day.

[d3Sync]

Legion® a écrit :

ArmedGhost- a écrit :

Just because AI is difficult, and people CAN complete tasks when faced with such difficulty, doesn't mean there aren't times where the AI is broken.

I can agree with this. But at the same time, you all neglect the FACT that this game is in PRE ALPHA and was released maybe a month ago. Tweaking AI behavior to work perfectly does not come in a day.

Strawman argument.

No one has asked the developers to fix the AI by tomorrow.

Regardless, people need to point out the issues with the AI, so that the developers can fix those problems. It doesn't matter in what stage development is in.

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d3Sync a écrit :

Legion® a écrit :

I can agree with this. But at the same time, you all neglect the FACT that this game is in PRE ALPHA and was released maybe a month ago. Tweaking AI behavior to work perfectly does not come in a day.

Strawman argument.

No one has asked the developers to fix the AI by tomorrow.

Regardless, people need to point out the issues with the AI, so that the developers can fix those problems. It doesn't matter in what stage development is in.

There is a big difference between reporting on something and complaining. If you scroll down this forum, it is the latter.

[UnwieldyRex]

Legion® a écrit :

Tweaking AI behavior to work perfectly does not come in a day.

May not come in a day, but after 5 weeks? There at least should be some tweak long past on top of the the behavioral patterns changing in Hotfix 5. The AI have been the number 1 complaint right next to the heli system since day 1, why are we just now getting a mild tweak that no one has asked for or complained about? The team behind Incursion Red River has been pushing AI tweaks almost every other weak and they're a team just as small as, if not smaller than, Madfinger.