We need to talk about PVE / PVP cross progression please.

[Jungle Juice]

First of all, great job MFG!!! I'm already having more fun than in Tarkov and I really hope it just gets better.
There is one (actually two, I try to keep short though) topic that I can't get my head around it. For me it doesn't make sense at all to have a connected progression system. At least for the PVP side, the whole thrill and excitement just get lost. Let me try to explain:

I play mainly PVP, but after loosing a lot of gear and being kinda slowly in progressing I tried the PVE mode that everybody is talking about (and didn't payed 250$). After a session of roughly 4 hrs in PVE mode, my inventory was full with gear and weapons. Not only I could grind a lot of weapons, rigs and ammo.. I progressed quite a lot with my tasks and unlocked new vendors and so on. Then I got back into PVP mode and it felt as I was cheating and I didn't care if I'm dying or not, cause I always could go back to PVE and get new stuff.
The game lost immediately it's magic and there was absolutely no big thrill.

So my question is: is this intended, is this how the developers want it to be? I don't believe that that's the intention of that system. It just feels like cheating.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think PVE mode should be removed.. just separated. So everybody is happy.
I know that many PVE player will say, no it's good how it is. So my question to them, WHY? Why do you want it to be like that, if you enjoy PVE, why the need for cross progression. Please some arguments.

And if thats too much of a change, then please give us just some dedicated PVP servers and keep the existing PVEVP structure.. I mean, nobody would have a problem with it,... right?

(*second topic is AI tracking and shooting through bushes and walls and not loosing line of sight, please remove this, apparently it was not like that in the closed alpha test)

Cheers

[rulirans]

Shev a écrit :

They're not going to do this because it will effectively split the playerbase. The developers will never do that because if a player has spent thirty hours doing quests and progressing their character in PVE, they have zero incentive to go over to PvPvE and do it all over again, with the added headache of PVP and potential teamkillers.

People will do the PvE servers for quest progression and gear if they hit a hard-wall in the PvPvE mode; it's the best of both worlds for everyone. PvE mode allows casual players to get used to the game, get comfortable, acquire gear, progress quests and unlock vendors. Eventually they might want to dabble in PVP; and they'll try the other mode every so often.

This allows both modes to have a standard set of players who ONLY want that particular mode, and a revolving set of players who will tire of trying to do stuff in PvPvE with the high pressure of PVP(they'll run PvE for a 'casual time' to relax with friends), and PvE players who want a taste of the higher stakes and more pressure gameplay of PvPvE will slide into it on occassion.

Not sure why some people want it 'all in or nothing' in either direction; you're only causing each mode to have fewer players long-term by promoting that non-sense; extremely illogical and self-defeating.

They just need to add some obligated "PVP" Quests when getting higher levels and this problem will be solved. Ppl with high level got in PVE will swap by quest necessity into PVP.
Sorry my english i hope u all undesrtand.

[ArmedGhost-]

Primal a écrit :

This is all just subjective opinion.

To be fair, if someone gets gear in PVE and you kill them in PVP you'd just get all their stuff anyway no?

And as you said, you can do some PVE and get the same gear yourself?

So what's the issue? You just want to seal club people?

PvP and PvE need to have separate progression. This shouldn't even be a debate.

I have already read numerous people switching over to PvE when they couldn't complete a task either because of other PMCs or because they couldn't find a certain item. Once they complete that task they switch right back over to PvP. Seems like a cheap shortcut for people who can't handle PvP. Too add, doesn't make sense that players do tasks in PvE gain the same tasks rewards as those who strictly complete tasks in PvP.

Similar to The Cycle, a game like this shouldn't even have the option to PvE.

[X]

I can't see why they can't seperate the 2 though.

[X]

I'm playing pve until they fix the servers. However there's a lot of foliage for players to camp which I could see being a nightmare.

[RedWhiteYellow]

I am very much enjoying it being shared.

I can play with friends or play on my own in either mode without massively changing my stash or dealing with two menus or any other nonsense.

I like for the first time that other peoples opinions of what my experience should be aren't dictating what i can and cant do.

An odd middleground i'd be happy with is a competitive PVP mode where everyone has the same stash size, same starting gear and so on as well as changes to make things generally "harder"

Could have rankings and other things or wipe more often that kinda deal... get that real competitive experience that is apparently craved.

[DaMatth]

yeah please separate and never wipe pve environment. please. im a "normy" and can play like 6h a week and play also other stuff (im sorry :P). and if i come back after 3-4 month i start at 0 because of wipe? why? or make it a 3rd mode (with this u can never go pvp or anything). i dont like wipes at all. and that also means there are a lot of missions and experiences (i have to use some trigger words here guys to be heard :P) i will never be able to see and make. i simply wont be fast enough. and i dont like to play "on the clock". i really hope u consider the "solo normy who likes progress". i spent 105h in your game and i love it.

[Leo3ABP]

I think people see more in PvP and PvE separation than there is. In reality there is virtually no difference apart from that PvP mode is the same PvE mode but where you have chances of being killed by other player. So one can get gear and other stuff in both modes contrary to OP impressions, unless you log into PvP and do nothing else but PvP which is not really an intended way to play the game. And even then, as somebody mentioned in this thread, you will be getting gear from other players which they presumably could have gotten from PvE, so even if you strictly play PvP only you would still be getting gear, assuming you are winning more of your PvP encounters than you loose.

For me it is fine either way. Though, if developers decide to separate modes completely, then they probably should also drop all the faction separation in PvE and let people from different factions play together.

[UziLover]

i bought the game for pve. after over 2000 hours in tarkov i have no interest in pvp. it is too open to cheating and griefing to be fun. also the servers are pretty crap atm sp pvp would be a coin toss.

[Ad Hominem]

i just want to do missions and unlock all the good stuff and stack a bunch of cash in pve mode before i switch to pvp servers and camp mission locations and landing zones to get kills

[TheKingOfThings]

ArmedGhost- a écrit :

Primal a écrit :

This is all just subjective opinion.

To be fair, if someone gets gear in PVE and you kill them in PVP you'd just get all their stuff anyway no?

And as you said, you can do some PVE and get the same gear yourself?

So what's the issue? You just want to seal club people?

PvP and PvE need to have separate progression. This shouldn't even be a debate.

I have already read numerous people switching over to PvE when they couldn't complete a task either because of other PMCs or because they couldn't find a certain item. Once they complete that task they switch right back over to PvP. Seems like a cheap shortcut for people who can't handle PvP. Too add, doesn't make sense that players do tasks in PvE gain the same tasks rewards as those who strictly complete tasks in PvP.

Similar to The Cycle, a game like this shouldn't even have the option to PvE.

PvP is only part of the game and I like that it's an option for me to engage with. I bought this game and am enjoying it as a PvE extraction shooter based game.

I would think it would be very unfair for them to lower the rewards for completing tasks in the PvE environment simply because I didn't have to fight any players? That is just silly to me. I still took the time to go there and dealt with all the AI which can be very easy to very hard to deal with (especially as a solo). I have even lost whole kits because I die trying to loot my body and lose everything. So there is still a risk involved. Yes it was easier because no players shot at me but I don't think I should get less reward because of that. As you point out anyone can go and do this if they are stuck on a task, so no real downside.

If you want to say that I can't handle the PvP you are wrong, I just simply don't want to engage with it. I have 5k hours on Hunt:Showdown, I love PvP but I don't care about PvP in this game and I strongly believe the game systems shouldn't be balanced solely around PvP, at least not in the ways that you talk about like less rewards. I would be even less likely to try any PvP in this game if they made progression separate because of the additional time invested into doing the tasks again, not to mention when wipes happen.

I do agree the economy side of the game does need balancing between PvP and PvE modes. For example you can progress Vendors levels and access the gear but you have 2 different wallets for each mode.

Simple solution to the Flea Market, items should have a tag indicating they are found in PvP allowing them to be sold. PvE items cannot be sold on the market.

[Groblidor]

Jungle Juice a écrit :

First of all, great job MFG!!! I'm already having more fun than in Tarkov and I really hope it just gets better.
There is one (actually two, I try to keep short though) topic that I can't get my head around it. For me it doesn't make sense at all to have a connected progression system. At least for the PVP side, the whole thrill and excitement just get lost. Let me try to explain:

I play mainly PVP, but after loosing a lot of gear and being kinda slowly in progressing I tried the PVE mode that everybody is talking about (and didn't payed 250$). After a session of roughly 4 hrs in PVE mode, my inventory was full with gear and weapons. Not only I could grind a lot of weapons, rigs and ammo.. I progressed quite a lot with my tasks and unlocked new vendors and so on. Then I got back into PVP mode and it felt as I was cheating and I didn't care if I'm dying or not, cause I always could go back to PVE and get new stuff.
The game lost immediately it's magic and there was absolutely no big thrill.

So my question is: is this intended, is this how the developers want it to be? I don't believe that that's the intention of that system. It just feels like cheating.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think PVE mode should be removed.. just separated. So everybody is happy.
I know that many PVE player will say, no it's good how it is. So my question to them, WHY? Why do you want it to be like that, if you enjoy PVE, why the need for cross progression. Please some arguments.

And if thats too much of a change, then please give us just some dedicated PVP servers and keep the existing PVEVP structure.. I mean, nobody would have a problem with it,... right?

(*second topic is AI tracking and shooting through bushes and walls and not loosing line of sight, please remove this, apparently it was not like that in the closed alpha test)

Cheers

havent touched pve and i have 5 36 slot bags filled with fully modded guns and 6 boss cq guns from saphire, almost never die so all i do is hoard ♥♥♥♥ or give it to people to make space

[Blood Monarch]

I don't understand this 'there is no challenge if you can just gear up in PvE' You are not forced into PvE, if you want to challenge yourself, just don't do PvE to gear up or progress tasks. If you can't stop yourself doing PvE just because it's there as an option, then maybe you don't want the challenge that you think you do.

Shared progression will result in more players on the PvP servers as people that don't want to PvP all the time will do 'some' PvP, safe in the knowledge that any gear they lose they can get back on PvE servers. More targets and more loot for the skilled PvP'ers.

Seems like everyone wins to me...

[RamboTango]

I think is a video game that you pay a lot of money for, and you can play it however the F#@* you want. If you want to feel the "magic" then play it a way that it brings you that feeling.

[Deadly Chicken XoP']

I dont see a problem really. I think there will be some people that dont bother with PvP until they complete all the tasks and then they might do PvP to give them some longevity of the game,

But basically it doesnt bother me either way how people want to play, If they go into PvE to beef up their inventory and then come into PvP then surely thats jsut more weapons for PvP players to loot off of them ?

[MustardTiger]

100% agree.

PvE / Joint Ops progression should be seperate.

Or at the very least, PvPvE / Warfare should give more task rewards and/or loot drops etc.