We need to talk about PVE / PVP cross progression please.

[Jungle Juice]

First of all, great job MFG!!! I'm already having more fun than in Tarkov and I really hope it just gets better.
There is one (actually two, I try to keep short though) topic that I can't get my head around it. For me it doesn't make sense at all to have a connected progression system. At least for the PVP side, the whole thrill and excitement just get lost. Let me try to explain:

I play mainly PVP, but after loosing a lot of gear and being kinda slowly in progressing I tried the PVE mode that everybody is talking about (and didn't payed 250$). After a session of roughly 4 hrs in PVE mode, my inventory was full with gear and weapons. Not only I could grind a lot of weapons, rigs and ammo.. I progressed quite a lot with my tasks and unlocked new vendors and so on. Then I got back into PVP mode and it felt as I was cheating and I didn't care if I'm dying or not, cause I always could go back to PVE and get new stuff.
The game lost immediately it's magic and there was absolutely no big thrill.

So my question is: is this intended, is this how the developers want it to be? I don't believe that that's the intention of that system. It just feels like cheating.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think PVE mode should be removed.. just separated. So everybody is happy.
I know that many PVE player will say, no it's good how it is. So my question to them, WHY? Why do you want it to be like that, if you enjoy PVE, why the need for cross progression. Please some arguments.

And if thats too much of a change, then please give us just some dedicated PVP servers and keep the existing PVEVP structure.. I mean, nobody would have a problem with it,... right?

(*second topic is AI tracking and shooting through bushes and walls and not loosing line of sight, please remove this, apparently it was not like that in the closed alpha test)

Cheers

[Jungle Juice]

So what would be very interesting to know from PVE players.. would someone mind if the current system stays, and just some extra dedicated PVP servers would be added. If yes, why?
*just out of curiosity

[ArmedGhost-]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zuh:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ArmedGhost-:

The rewards for completing tasks are the same in PvP and PvE are the same, when tasks are much easier to complete in PvE. That's the point I was trying to make.

But on the top of basic task reward you have reward for killing other players which is much more lucrative. Which is the point I'm making but you are choosing to ignore it.

If I will be forced to choose game mode to commit to, I and may players will choose PvE to ensure cheater free game. We will be less likely to show up in PvEvP which will reduce player base for PvP. Than ppl will complain that PvEvP is not popular enough and the game is dying...

I hear what you're saying completely, but the rewards from tasks in PvE should be lesser as tasks are much easier to complete. Less risk = less reward. In PvP it's not always going to be possible to extract with another players loadout. The base rewards for tasks should just be higher in PvP.

[ArmedGhost-]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jungle Juice:

So what would be very interesting to know from PVE players.. would someone mind if the current system stays, and just some extra dedicated PVP servers would be added. If yes, why?
*just out of curiosity

As the game develops, I think having shared progression will cause issues for exploits. When the "flea market" get's introduced, what is stopping players from farming PvE servers for high end loot to sell on the PvP market? Essentially getting rich in PvP by farming PvE servers. Not only that. Completing tasks in PvE are much easier, allowing players to speed through this to unlock higher vendor levels faster as well as upgrade their stash size and safebox faster than someone who plays on a PvP server.

The ability to switch to PvE at anytime just seems like a participation trophy for those who find PvP too challenging and want an easy way out.

[STARMANNNN]

i like it this way yea u can get loot in pve but i guarantee u a good majority of the player base is going to play pve and i doubt most of us will want to restart just to play pvp if u want to only play pvp thats on you but some of us like to chill in pve then maybe go do some pvp later i like it that way

[STARMANNNN]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ArmedGhost-:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jungle Juice:

So what would be very interesting to know from PVE players.. would someone mind if the current system stays, and just some extra dedicated PVP servers would be added. If yes, why?
*just out of curiosity

As the game develops, I think having shared progression will cause issues for exploits. When the "flea market" get's introduced, what is stopping players from farming PvE servers for high end loot to sell on the PvP market? Essentially getting rich in PvP by farming PvE servers. Not only that. Completing tasks in PvE are much easier, allowing players to speed through this to unlock higher vendor levels faster as well as upgrade their stash size and safebox faster than someone who plays on a PvP server.

The ability to switch to PvE at anytime just seems like a participation trophy for those who find PvP too challenging and want an easy way out.

there will be no flea market so we dont gotta worry about that check the road map if u think im lying but im 9 times outta 10 sure they said they wont implement a flea market

[Gisborne]

Since the launch of tarkov ive never had a good weapon... I always ran around with a PP pistol getting farmed by max geared players... I quit tarkov years ago, was not fun. If this give sme option to gear in pve, go pvp and not pop a nugget when i get farmed by some swet camper that's good. No one is forcing you to gear in PVE, You could just stay PVP all the time for the challenge and let the not so good players gear in pve then try pvp.

[ArmedGhost-]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von @tymulaaaaa._:

i like it this way yea u can get loot in pve but i guarantee u a good majority of the player base is going to play pve and i doubt most of us will want to restart just to play pvp if u want to only play pvp thats on you but some of us like to chill in pve then maybe go do some pvp later i like it that way

PvE needs to straight up be removed from this game. If players had no choice but to participate in PvP, they would actually have to expands their skills and become a better player rather than just switching to PvE as an easy way out.

I am not a PvP player and am dog water at PvP in these types of games, but the challenge of threat of PvP is what makes games like Grayzone different from other shooters.

[Zuh]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ArmedGhost-:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zuh:

But on the top of basic task reward you have reward for killing other players which is much more lucrative. Which is the point I'm making but you are choosing to ignore it.

If I will be forced to choose game mode to commit to, I and may players will choose PvE to ensure cheater free game. We will be less likely to show up in PvEvP which will reduce player base for PvP. Than ppl will complain that PvEvP is not popular enough and the game is dying...

I hear what you're saying completely, but the rewards from tasks in PvE should be lesser as tasks are much easier to complete. Less risk = less reward. In PvP it's not always going to be possible to extract with another players loadout. The base rewards for tasks should just be higher in PvP.

The extra risk is due to presence of other players and those players are bringing more reward with them. Its is already perfectly balanced by itself. You are too focused on denying other players to have alternative way of playing because it is not your preferable way of playing and it has its benefits.

[ArmedGhost-]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von @tymulaaaaa._:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ArmedGhost-:

As the game develops, I think having shared progression will cause issues for exploits. When the "flea market" get's introduced, what is stopping players from farming PvE servers for high end loot to sell on the PvP market? Essentially getting rich in PvP by farming PvE servers. Not only that. Completing tasks in PvE are much easier, allowing players to speed through this to unlock higher vendor levels faster as well as upgrade their stash size and safebox faster than someone who plays on a PvP server.

The ability to switch to PvE at anytime just seems like a participation trophy for those who find PvP too challenging and want an easy way out.

there will be no flea market so we dont gotta worry about that check the road map if u think im lying but im 9 times outta 10 sure they said they wont implement a flea market

There will be a multiplayer market similar to the flea market from Tarkov. This was announced in a dev blog months ago.

[Zuh]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jungle Juice:

So what would be very interesting to know from PVE players.. would someone mind if the current system stays, and just some extra dedicated PVP servers would be added. If yes, why?
*just out of curiosity

On its own I have no problem with that but it comes with some concerns if you will look at the reality and the bigger picture.

1) Dev is a small studio, another mode will take focus and resources while there is so much to do on what is already in the game.

2) Servers are expensive, extra mode will require extra servers. I have already concerns about existing business model. I'm not expert but to me it seems that Dev will need consistent source of cash to maintain servers while they said there will be no mtx in the game. Any thoughts?

[STARMANNNN]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ArmedGhost-:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von @tymulaaaaa._:

there will be no flea market so we dont gotta worry about that check the road map if u think im lying but im 9 times outta 10 sure they said they wont implement a flea market

There will be a multiplayer market similar to the flea market from Tarkov. This was announced in a dev blog months ago.

well there recent road map says other wise :)

[ArmedGhost-]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zuh:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ArmedGhost-:

I hear what you're saying completely, but the rewards from tasks in PvE should be lesser as tasks are much easier to complete. Less risk = less reward. In PvP it's not always going to be possible to extract with another players loadout. The base rewards for tasks should just be higher in PvP.

The extra risk is due to presence of other players and those players are bringing more reward with them. Its is already perfectly balanced by itself. You are too focused on denying other players to have alternative way of playing because it is not your preferable way of playing and it has its benefits.

it's not about denying players an alternative way, if that fact when players are faced with any challenge, they can simply take a shortcut around those challenges by switching to PvE at will.

[STARMANNNN]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ArmedGhost-:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von @tymulaaaaa._:

i like it this way yea u can get loot in pve but i guarantee u a good majority of the player base is going to play pve and i doubt most of us will want to restart just to play pvp if u want to only play pvp thats on you but some of us like to chill in pve then maybe go do some pvp later i like it that way

PvE needs to straight up be removed from this game. If players had no choice but to participate in PvP, they would actually have to expands their skills and become a better player rather than just switching to PvE as an easy way out.

I am not a PvP player and am dog water at PvP in these types of games, but the challenge of threat of PvP is what makes games like Grayzone different from other shooters.

lmaooo get the f out here w that bs most of us have jobs so i like the cross progression when ever i get board of pve i can just go pvp for a bit nobody wants to deal with the losers with no jobs who are gonna play this game 24/7 on pvp only servers atleast with cross progression us casuals will have a chance against the nerds

[ArmedGhost-]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von @tymulaaaaa._:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ArmedGhost-:

There will be a multiplayer market similar to the flea market from Tarkov. This was announced in a dev blog months ago.

well there recent road map says other wise :)

Maybe they back tracked on this idea, but I explicitly remember watching a dev blog about the looting system and how they plan on bringing in a flea market equivalent to multiplayer.

Devs have said themselves they are working on a functional flea market. I don't think everything that is going to be in the final game is actually posted in that road map. For example, the loot pool and FOBs. There's going to be a much larger loot pool with higher tier loot, but that's not in the road map. Same with FOBs. It's already be said that there's going to be dynamic map control where factions can capture and hold FOBs from other factions. Another mechanics\ that has been announced, but isn't on the roadmap for whatever reason.

Considering the game is only ~20% complete, it seems there is a lot of features there were already announced that are not on the road map.

[Papz]

No other game does it,i think it's good for people that come later into the wipe they can pve and then transition to pvp once they caught up a bit,i think it s a good idea,not every game needs to be the same.