To people complaining about AI difficulty

[Leo3ABP]

You can't play this game reactively.

If you proceed slowly, carefully and methodically, always trying to think two steps ahead and considering carefully how you want to approach your target and where enemies may come from, then you will not have any trouble with "cheating AI". In harder areas of the game you will likely need to squad up with other players to be able to complete said areas without much frustration but I think this is the way the game is intended to be played.

There are no "AI sees through bushes" and "AI using aimbot" thing in the game. Instead, the AI will suppress and push towards the location they last seen you. In the bushes the AI will spray the bush where they last seen you. If you keep peeking from the same spot again and again the AI will hit you in the head. So changing positions and not being predictable is important if you want to survive.

If you play this game reactively like most other shooters out there then you will keep dying and getting frustrated, because in this game AI opponents are not made to be killed at players leisure but rather for trying to kill a player. The AI in this game can genuinely make you want to ask your faction to come and bail you out because of how badly you can get pinned by the AI which does not wait to get killed and in many situation can react almost as well as a player when it comes to spotting and shooting. But unfortunately not all can experience the tension this game has to offer because they simply do not live long enough.

Slow, methodical, and tactical are keywords for this game. This is not CoD so stop trying to make GZW into one.

I really hope that developers will not cave in to the "game is too hard" crowd and ruin the atmosphere of tension, stress and sometimes fear that this game manages to create.

[Litva]

Dont worry new update totaly ♥♥♥♥♥ everything AI so dumb you can run past 5 and ignore them. They get what they asked.

[RanaCreed]

if you play solo for many hours you will notice most of the ai can pinpoint your location without seeing you, and some of them can shoot trough walls, if you prone in the bush ai wont see you, maybe its how its works but if you crouch or stand behind the bushes it can see you but you cant see ai, maybe you spend your time prone in the bushes

[Tr3m0r]

Originally posted by Leo3ABP:

You can't play this game reactively.

If you proceed slowly, carefully and methodically, always trying to think two steps ahead and considering carefully how you want to approach your target and where enemies may come from, then you will not have any trouble with "cheating AI". In harder areas of the game you will likely need to squad up with other players to be able to complete said areas without much frustration but I think this is the way the game is intended to be played.

There are no "AI sees through bushes" and "AI using aimbot" thing in the game. Instead, the AI will suppress and push towards the location they last seen you. In the bushes the AI will spray the bush where they last seen you. If you keep peeking from the same spot again and again the AI will hit you in the head. So changing positions and not being predictable is important if you want to survive.

If you play this game reactively like most other shooters out there then you will keep dying and getting frustrated, because in this game AI opponents are not made to be killed at players leisure but rather for trying to kill a player. The AI in this game can genuinely make you want to ask your faction to come and bail you out because of how badly you can get pinned by the AI which does not wait to get killed and in many situation can react almost as well as a player when it comes to spotting and shooting. But unfortunately not all can experience the tension this game has to offer because they simply do not live long enough.

Slow, methodical, and tactical are keywords for this game. This is not CoD so stop trying to make GZW into one.

I really hope that developers will not cave in to the "game is too hard" crowd and ruin the atmosphere of tension, stress and sometimes fear that this game manages to create.

I don't think it's an either or situation. In 20 hours I can definitely say the Ai does at times just start firing from completely inappropriate places where I'm not even in their line of sight. It is nothing to do with skill and it's a matter of tuning through Ai better. I don't think the developers have to make the game easier to accomplish that either.

I do agree patience pays off and that the game is geared more toward group play. But there are definitely issues with Ai altertability and times where head shots just ring through helmet gear even in easy areas when I'll be fine in tier 3 areas. It's not consistent which is also something tuning can fix. But I don't think any of this has to make the game dumbed down. I think if the Ai can be less aware and more inaccurate based on the number of players in the area, that would go a long way.

[Leo3ABP]

Originally posted by RanaCreed:

if you play solo for many hours you will notice most of the ai can pinpoint your location without seeing you

They do not pinpoint anything unless you get spotted/heard. I sneaked past many AI patrols that remained clueless I was there. Once you start shooting the AI will be converging to the area where they last heard or seen you. If one AI sees or hears you it will communicate your position to other AI's in their vicinity. Sneak away unheard and unseen from the last position where you've been engaged by AI and they will think you are still there. All of that makes perfect sense. Don't be static, change position and conceal yourself while doing so (both visually and audibly) and you will have an upper edge.

[Leo3ABP]

Originally posted by Tr3m0r:

I don't think it's an either or situation. In 20 hours I can definitely say the Ai does at times just start firing from completely inappropriate places where I'm not even in their line of sight. It is nothing to do with skill and it's a matter of tuning through Ai better. I don't think the developers have to make the game easier to accomplish that either.

Ask yourself: do you always shoot only when there is an "appropriate" line of sight, or do you also shoot through bushes/obstacles when you know/suspect there is an enemy behind it? Why AI should not be able to do so? In all my playtime I have not encountered a situation where I would definitely say "yup, that was AI cheating" and all my deaths were usually my fault because I either planned poorly, did not reacted quickly enough or went into situations way over my head. The only time I can say I was killed "unfairly" is when the game spawned an enemy right behind me in a place that I just walked past and could not have not noticed an enemy there (basically open ground between two walls). But that has nothing to do with "cheating AI"

Originally posted by Tr3m0r:

I do agree patience pays off and that the game is geared more toward group play. But there are definitely issues with Ai altertability and times where head shots just ring through helmet gear even in easy areas when I'll be fine in tier 3 areas. It's not consistent which is also something tuning can fix. But I don't think any of this has to make the game dumbed down. I think if the Ai can be less aware and more inaccurate based on the number of players in the area, that would go a long way.

As I already wrote in OP, the "headshot issue" mainly exists in situations where you try to peek from the same cover/spot after being engaged there by the AI previously. Again, what AI does here is the same thing that a player would do - wait for enemy to peek from the same spot and shoot them in the head. In fact this is what many players do in other shooters where AI can take cover, yet somehow they feel it is unfair when AI does exactly the same thing against players. As for the accuracy, AI is already inaccurate enough, especially in starter areas - they rarely hit with the first burst or two unless a player makes things that get them killed (like peeking from the same corner while enemy waiting there).

To put it simple, the AI in GZW does more or less the same what players do in other games (except being effective at taking cover maybe) which I guess is the main reason of frustration for players who are used to AI opponents being pushovers.

[TonyT]

All the tac mentioned above are true, but then you run into the silent bush ai, wall banging ai, running ak burst hs from 150mm ai. All immersion and tac are gone and we strafe hip fire and hope for the best. Now you can also run away and reengage dwn the road.
The devs are worried about exploits, not the ai. Maybe, people wont exploit kits if they had made the game more immersive with the AI. Most of the issues are easy fixes, heli just need to have locations added before it leave base to organize rides better as well.

[PLeasant]

Nah. I'm almost lvl 30. The devs are just awful at bots.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/2479810/discussions/0/4342111331713834578/

[Leo3ABP]

Originally posted by PLeasant:

Nah. I'm almost lvl 30. The devs are just awful at bots.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/2479810/discussions/0/4342111331713834578/

I think you yourself had identified an issue in your thread - good guns and gear do not make up for good tactics, awareness and patience in this game. Simply being level 30 and assuming that buying the best gear the game has to offer should automatically make you dominate AI enemies, as well as lack of understanding of this game's mechanics, is why you are struggling with AI bots in this game.

[OriginalGrubby]

Originally posted by Leo3ABP:

You can't play this game reactively.

If you proceed slowly, carefully and methodically, always trying to think two steps ahead and considering carefully how you want to approach your target and where enemies may come from, then you will not have any trouble with "cheating AI". In harder areas of the game you will likely need to squad up with other players to be able to complete said areas without much frustration but I think this is the way the game is intended to be played.

There are no "AI sees through bushes" and "AI using aimbot" thing in the game. Instead, the AI will suppress and push towards the location they last seen you. In the bushes the AI will spray the bush where they last seen you. If you keep peeking from the same spot again and again the AI will hit you in the head. So changing positions and not being predictable is important if you want to survive.

If you play this game reactively like most other shooters out there then you will keep dying and getting frustrated, because in this game AI opponents are not made to be killed at players leisure but rather for trying to kill a player. The AI in this game can genuinely make you want to ask your faction to come and bail you out because of how badly you can get pinned by the AI which does not wait to get killed and in many situation can react almost as well as a player when it comes to spotting and shooting. But unfortunately not all can experience the tension this game has to offer because they simply do not live long enough.

Slow, methodical, and tactical are keywords for this game. This is not CoD so stop trying to make GZW into one.

I really hope that developers will not cave in to the "game is too hard" crowd and ruin the atmosphere of tension, stress and sometimes fear that this game manages to create.

You're flat out wrong on this entire topic.

First off, by nature of programming the AI ALWAYS know where you are, they may not be in, for lack of a better term, attack mode where they actively shoot at you, but they do always know where you are.

The issue comes in when they never move from attack mode to seek and destroy mode and actively search for you after line of sight has been broken. Now you rant on about how to go into suppression mode where they simply spray the last know as they advance forward. This isn't the case in 95% of the cases, you will have them lay down 100% accurate fire into a bush no matter if you stopped in that bush, ran through, zig and zag, or even lay flat on the ground. Once LOS is broken they shouldn't be able to dome you 95% of the time with hip fired suppressing fire.

The AI are incredibly accurate while hip firing, or ADS. Doesn't matter if you're in the wide open, or behind cover. I can't count the number of times I've been domed behind cover. Granted this was soft cover that bullets were going to go through, but it's still broken LOS and the AI still has the pinpoint accuracy to aim for your head and track your head behind cover.

That in a nutshell is BROKEN AI. Not to the point where it needs an entire overhaul, but it definitely does need some tuning. Broken LOS should force search and destroy mode shortly after suppression mode. And suppression mode shouldn't be a 95% head shot chance.

Now if this hasn't convinced you AI is somewhat broken check this out.

Squad mate and I went into Tiger Bay. We took somewhat doodoo fits because we knew we would get clapped, and sure enough we did. We managed to make it to our bodies and B-Lined it for the bushes and trees and manged to make it a good way there before getting clapped while running through cover.

We went back to retrieve our gear and my squad mate made a dash for his gear while I went and found a bush on a flank to hide in. At no point was I seen, shot at, or hunted by the AI. My squad mate gets his gear, starts running away from the AI again, and when he feels he's far enough off with sufficient cover he pops off a few rounds to distract the AI so I could get my loot.

Almost immediately he gets clapped through the bushes. Keep in mind AI has "NO" idea where he is, we both went in stealth, he made it out stealth until he fired the shot. the AI beamed him dead on as soon as he popped off the shots.

Now I'm still hiding in my bush, laying down, haven't been spotted, no shots in my direction, nothing. Squad mate goes down, I hear the usual yelling from the AI, and figure if I hunker down for a few minutes maybe they will either return to their patrol or scatter enough for me to crouch/crawl back to my body.

Well the yelling starts getting louder, foot steps, bushes rustling, and all of a sudden 6 AI are standing in the exact same bush with me. They stand around yelling for 5 seconds and then light me up.

Now thankfully I had that doodoo fit so I really didn't care that I lost the gear, but if that doesn't prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that AI is to some extent broken and in need of tuning, I don't know what does.

So you can sit here all day and say it's only a skill issue, but it's not. Now I'm not calling for them to get the nerf bat into the void, but they do need some fixing.

And as a side note, I did check out the devs talking about how AI works in the game.

[Age]

AI does see you at all times through bushes and aimbot you as soon as they hear that gunshot (suppressed doesn't matter, THEY KNOW YOU'RE THERE) or you manage to hit one of them.

Every UE based "Tactical Shooter" is the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, really. On this one, we just lose everything we have.. or server/game crashes and bye-bye gear.

At least Call of Duty is not this pretentious. You don't have to fight the game to shoot straight, or feel like you're walking with cinder blocks tied to your legs.

[󠁳]

what about when the ai tank multiple headshots and hipfire a subsonic round out of a 3.6 MOA iron sight ak 150m away one shotting me to the arm

what about when ai hunt me down for 100m while tracking me through bushes, past trees, behind fences, through buildings

what about when ai randomly aggro 50+m away and spray through walls

what about when ai phase through multiple walls to get to me

what about when ai get stuck in walls and become invincible but they can shoot out

what about when a single ai gets alerted with 0 LOS and 0 sound from the player and proceeds to draw every other ai in a 50m radius to your exact position

what about when a single ai tanks 30+ rounds to the head and chest from 4 players and kills all 4 players with what they perceive as 1 bullet, only for the players to hear that same ai die a few seconds later



sounds like the ai is working as intended, just play slower, hit your shots, unless the ai dont die, treat LOS as a suggestion, shoot through walls, get a crit and one shot you to the hand, and so on

[BENJY]

It's like I'm playing Waldo with the AI who shoot and go MIA for 5+ minutes and decides to shoot me in the neck while I'm looting.

[Leo3ABP]

Originally posted by OriginalGrubby:

You're flat out wrong on this entire topic.

First off, by nature of programming the AI ALWAYS know where you are, they may not be in, for lack of a better term, attack mode where they actively shoot at you, but they do always know where you are.

The issue comes in when they never move from attack mode to seek and destroy mode and actively search for you after line of sight has been broken. Now you rant on about how to go into suppression mode where they simply spray the last know as they advance forward. This isn't the case in 95% of the cases, you will have them lay down 100% accurate fire into a bush no matter if you stopped in that bush, ran through, zig and zag, or even lay flat on the ground. Once LOS is broken they shouldn't be able to dome you 95% of the time with hip fired suppressing fire.

The AI are incredibly accurate while hip firing, or ADS. Doesn't matter if you're in the wide open, or behind cover. I can't count the number of times I've been domed behind cover. Granted this was soft cover that bullets were going to go through, but it's still broken LOS and the AI still has the pinpoint accuracy to aim for your head and track your head behind cover.

That in a nutshell is BROKEN AI. Not to the point where it needs an entire overhaul, but it definitely does need some tuning. Broken LOS should force search and destroy mode shortly after suppression mode. And suppression mode shouldn't be a 95% head shot chance.

Now if this hasn't convinced you AI is somewhat broken check this out.

Squad mate and I went into Tiger Bay. We took somewhat doodoo fits because we knew we would get clapped, and sure enough we did. We managed to make it to our bodies and B-Lined it for the bushes and trees and manged to make it a good way there before getting clapped while running through cover.

We went back to retrieve our gear and my squad mate made a dash for his gear while I went and found a bush on a flank to hide in. At no point was I seen, shot at, or hunted by the AI. My squad mate gets his gear, starts running away from the AI again, and when he feels he's far enough off with sufficient cover he pops off a few rounds to distract the AI so I could get my loot.

Almost immediately he gets clapped through the bushes. Keep in mind AI has "NO" idea where he is, we both went in stealth, he made it out stealth until he fired the shot. the AI beamed him dead on as soon as he popped off the shots.

Now I'm still hiding in my bush, laying down, haven't been spotted, no shots in my direction, nothing. Squad mate goes down, I hear the usual yelling from the AI, and figure if I hunker down for a few minutes maybe they will either return to their patrol or scatter enough for me to crouch/crawl back to my body.

Well the yelling starts getting louder, foot steps, bushes rustling, and all of a sudden 6 AI are standing in the exact same bush with me. They stand around yelling for 5 seconds and then light me up.

Now thankfully I had that doodoo fit so I really didn't care that I lost the gear, but if that doesn't prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that AI is to some extent broken and in need of tuning, I don't know what does.

So you can sit here all day and say it's only a skill issue, but it's not. Now I'm not calling for them to get the nerf bat into the void, but they do need some fixing.

And as a side note, I did check out the devs talking about how AI works in the game.

Your first mistake was an attempt to dismiss everything I wrote by calling it flat out wrong and not backing it up by any constructive argument and instead trying to flex by lecturing on how AI works in general even though your knowledge on the subject is clearly limited to a single paragraph that you wrote. Here is your pat on the back buddy, good job, except that you did not brought anything of value to the discussion with that remark. It does not matter that AI is omnipotent, what matters is how it's actions are perceived by a player and whether an AI is capable of creating an illusion of being limited just like a player. And as I described in detail in my previous posts, AI bots in this game do an adequate job for the task at hand and in some ways even surpass AI bots in other shooters.

Your second mistake was to write a long and very subjective rant about yours and your friends struggles with AI in this game which only further underlined a player-issue and not an AI-issue in your and your friend's particular case.

For somebody who tried so aggressively dismiss everything I wrote you actually ended reinforcing my point that most of the "AI-issues" in this game are player-related and not AI-related.

[Niels]

internet arguing! yay!
First of all: this isn't reddit. Shut up. Nobody cares who's right or wrong here.

Second of all, on topic this time. AI clearly needs a bit of tweaking. They are fixated instantly and precisely on your last known location. This makes them both stupid when you're flanking and borderline aimbots if you're not. AI accuracy is also just silly, being able to unload multiple rounds into your brain from 400m away at times.

They are dangerous, and that makes the game what it is.
That's why so many of us keep playing.

[Leo3ABP]

Originally posted by ShadeShot:

what about when the ai tank multiple headshots and hipfire a subsonic round out of a 3.6 MOA iron sight ak 150m away one shotting me to the arm

If you knew what MOA is and how it is calculated then it would not surprise you that you got hit from a 3.6 MOA gun at 150 meters.

Originally posted by ShadeShot:

what about when ai hunt me down for 100m while tracking me through bushes, past trees, behind fences, through buildings

You are being seen or heard by the AI that is hunting you, or other AIs (for example seen when running between bushes)

Originally posted by ShadeShot:

what about when ai randomly aggro 50+m away and spray through walls

What does "randomly" even supposed to mean in this context? AI does not aggros "randomly", it aggros when it sees or hears a player, or when player last know position is communicated by other AIs. That you got spotted and attacked has nothing to do with it being random. In addition, players also often shoot without having LoS, why shouldn't AI do the same when they suspect player might be in the direction they are shooting at?

Originally posted by ShadeShot:

what about when ai phase through multiple walls to get to me

what about when ai get stuck in walls and become invincible but they can shoot out

Those have nothing to do with AI behaviour and are bugs that should be fixed.

Originally posted by ShadeShot:

what about when a single ai gets alerted with 0 LOS and 0 sound from the player and proceeds to draw every other ai in a 50m radius to your exact position

Ai does not get alerted with 0 LoS and o sound. The fact that you think that you have not been spotted or heard does not equals not actually being spotted or heard. Try crouchwalking and sneak-walking (ctrl-key) to not get heard by AI behind walls, bushes and such. Also dont assume the AI is blind and can not notice you in vegetation if it is not thick enough. Here again I want to point out that players can do just that and if you played pvp you would know.

Originally posted by ShadeShot:

what about when a single ai tanks 30+ rounds to the head and chest from 4 players and kills all 4 players with what they perceive as 1 bullet, only for the players to hear that same ai die a few seconds later

What about not exaggerating and flat out lying?

Originally posted by ShadeShot:

sounds like the ai is working as intended, just play slower, hit your shots, unless the ai dont die, treat LOS as a suggestion, shoot through walls, get a crit and one shot you to the hand, and so on

Sounds like somebody exaggerating to a point of lying.

Yes, play slow, work on your tactics, think ahead and not just react to a situations, and suddenly 95% of your struggles with AI would be gone. I understand that many players are just butthurt for being outplayed by AI, but this bs with demands of making AI more stupid and combat-ineffective needs to stop.