7.62x39 vs 5.56x45

[Mo_is_here]

why is 7.62x39 has less damage in this game, than 5.56x45.
both are AP. even with FMJ, 5.56x45 kills faster!

[ScottyTopG91]

7,62x51 is way better when it comes to penetration

[Mo_is_here]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ghannon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Freight_Train:

They will WONK ON about their damage model that is based on bleeding out and how you have to get a head or heart shot to drop someone, but of course that is missing the REST of the sentence. As in .... 'in order to drop someone IN THIS GAME' because in real life, there is no way a dude wearing his SKIN for chest armor is taking 3 AK shots in the chest and keeping his feet, pushing up on you, shooting back. It's never happened once IRL.
Never mind that in this game that might not be 3 shots, it might be 12 or the whole damn mag, and the stupid TANNED SKIN ARMOR is still somehow keeping him on his feet.

There are things(both offensive and defensive) COMPLETELY BUGGED with the AI in the starter town; the game actually gets more realistic past that. But that is the early game experience, and it shouldn't be HARDER, it should be EASIER. Difficulty is kind of backwards scaling right now. The game starts out too hard in many unfair ways, and then gets almost too easy once you have gear and are venturing past starter town.

You can't have a MILSIM and also have comically ridiculous bullet sponges. You have to pick one. And people HATE The Division, so you really shouldn't pick bullet sponges no matter what.

It has happened. Mike Day was shot 27 times at CQC distance but managed to win the fight and limp himself out. The caliber that he was shot with was 7.62.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_HjUiLikQY

Wow, good video.
Crazy to know!

[PRSK]

Special armor piercing 5.56 with heavier loads are actually better penetrators for some armor BUT better pen doesn't automatically means more deadly. This game either makes 5.56 too good, or as you can see so many tanky AI's, All other bullets too weak.

EDIT: In comparison to 7.62x39.

[Ghal Maraz]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ghannon:

It has happened. Mike Day was shot 27 times at CQC distance but managed to win the fight and limp himself out. The caliber that he was shot with was 7.62.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_HjUiLikQY

Fantastic story, guy was a true hero.

But, as the video mentions, he was wearing plates. The plates were probably level III plates at least, and would have stopped those shots from hitting vital organs even in CQB ranges. Unfortunately GZW currently has it turned around completely where it seems that plates catch rounds sometimes and, in the case of the AI, isn't needed at all.

There are huge issues with shots seemingly not doing any damage in this game. Rifle shots of all calibers will, more often than not, take multiple headshots to drop an AI. I've quit trying to use shot guns because there were constant situations where I would put a full load of buckshot strait to the chest of a shirtless guy from around 10ft away. Only to have to hit him 2-3 more times to drop him. The AI can even survive headshots with a shotgun from that distance. Not sure if it's a ballistics system issue or if there are severe desyncs happening between server and client, but it's made the game unpalatable in it's current state.

[SonukYildiz]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ghannon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Freight_Train:

They will WONK ON about their damage model that is based on bleeding out and how you have to get a head or heart shot to drop someone, but of course that is missing the REST of the sentence. As in .... 'in order to drop someone IN THIS GAME' because in real life, there is no way a dude wearing his SKIN for chest armor is taking 3 AK shots in the chest and keeping his feet, pushing up on you, shooting back. It's never happened once IRL.
Never mind that in this game that might not be 3 shots, it might be 12 or the whole damn mag, and the stupid TANNED SKIN ARMOR is still somehow keeping him on his feet.

There are things(both offensive and defensive) COMPLETELY BUGGED with the AI in the starter town; the game actually gets more realistic past that. But that is the early game experience, and it shouldn't be HARDER, it should be EASIER. Difficulty is kind of backwards scaling right now. The game starts out too hard in many unfair ways, and then gets almost too easy once you have gear and are venturing past starter town.

You can't have a MILSIM and also have comically ridiculous bullet sponges. You have to pick one. And people HATE The Division, so you really shouldn't pick bullet sponges no matter what.

It has happened. Mike Day was shot 27 times at CQC distance but managed to win the fight and limp himself out. The caliber that he was shot with was 7.62.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_HjUiLikQY

bro, in one of my general surgery lessons there was a case which a guy got shot with a single pistol caliber bullet in the stomach without armor and poor guy had to get big portion of his intestines to be removed, ain't even counting the haemorrhagic shock, other organ damages and multiple open surgeries required to stabilize him, ain't telling that situation in the video is not possible but humans are squishy, you'd get domed if you aren't wearing any armor or getting immediate medical attention

[xXxSh00t3mUpxXx]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mo_is_here:

why is 7.62x39 has less damage in this game, than 5.56x45.
both are AP. even with FMJ, 5.56x45 kills faster!

dont forget to consider the distance you are shooting from, that makes a huge diff. if i try to snipe with 5.56 a clean headshot wont even drop the AI from a far distance, heck it takes 2 headshots with the m700 at fort narith. if they are going for a realistic simulation they need to work on that, a headshot is a headshot, nobody should be walking after that and if they are they would be extremely dazed and wouldnt be able to shoot straight to say the least, the game does have some work it is early access. they don't even have the bullet drop implemented yet but i think we can all agree out of all the issues GZW has, bullet drop is at the bottom of the list of things that need to be fixed first lol

[cpl trout]

Because 5.56 will cause more dmg irl at least at ranges of 250m or less (depending on barrel length). When did they add a ap for 5.56?

[-=312th=- Tantrix]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ghannon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von -=312th=- Tantrix:

Devs didn't do their research on ballistics. 7.62x39 hits harder and has more recoil but is less accurate. 5.56x45 doesn't hit as hard but has less recoil and is more accurate. This is of course real-life performance of these calibers vs a video game.

7.62 is not any less accurate than 5.56 in real life. The difference in accuracy comes down to the skill of the shooter when handling a greater recoil.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MustardTiger:

556 has better armour penetration than 7.62x39

I hope you are talking about in game performance. In real life, the 5.56 has struggled against both unarmored and armored targets. The 5.56 round also has a long history of under performance in extreme temperature environments and dense foliage.

The primary reason that the US military developed the 5.56 was so that a soldier could carry more ammo at once, but at the time, body armor was far less of a concern than it is today. The US military has long planned to replace the round with a larger 5.8, 6.5, or 6.8. Bureaucrats who keep getting in the way are more concerned with the cost and logistics than they are combat effectiveness.

Yes, even in real-life because the 5.56 has a flatter trajectory, everyone knows that. If you're saying you can pull off the same shots with the 7.62, sure you can, and at 300yds you'd be holding over almost a foot and a half with an AK so good luck.

As far as armor penetration, that is also not a secret. Level III steel body armor will not stop 5.56 M193 but will stop 7.62x39

[#GLOCK-23]

maybe cause of the fire rate ?

[Mo_is_here]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von #GLOCK-23:

maybe cause of the fire rate ?

Perhaps! I have thought about this.
ARs have 800rpm more than AKs that have around 600rpm.
But i kinda feel especially in single shots 5.56x46 still put them down quicker.

[Yeetilini]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von -=312th=- Tantrix:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ghannon:

7.62 is not any less accurate than 5.56 in real life. The difference in accuracy comes down to the skill of the shooter when handling a greater recoil.


I hope you are talking about in game performance. In real life, the 5.56 has struggled against both unarmored and armored targets. The 5.56 round also has a long history of under performance in extreme temperature environments and dense foliage.

The primary reason that the US military developed the 5.56 was so that a soldier could carry more ammo at once, but at the time, body armor was far less of a concern than it is today. The US military has long planned to replace the round with a larger 5.8, 6.5, or 6.8. Bureaucrats who keep getting in the way are more concerned with the cost and logistics than they are combat effectiveness.

Yes, even in real-life because the 5.56 has a flatter trajectory, everyone knows that. If you're saying you can pull off the same shots with the 7.62, sure you can, and at 300yds you'd be holding over almost a foot and a half with an AK so good luck.

As far as armor penetration, that is also not a secret. Level III steel body armor will not stop 5.56 M193 but will stop 7.62x39

I have put both my AKM and my 74M side folder thru the Marine rifle quals. 31 on the AKM and 36 on the 74M. 17in pattern at 500yds with the AKM, little less with the 74m.
Being that the average adult male chest size is 39-49in, it can and will do exactly what it was designed for.

EDIT: and if you're curious, that was with off the shelf Barnaul, so no hand-load trickery.

[Damien]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yeetilini:

I have put both my AKM and my 74M side folder thru the Marine rifle quals. 31 on the AKM and 36 on the 74M. 17in pattern at 500yds with the AKM, little less with the 74m.
Being that the average adult male chest size is 39-49in, it can and will do exactly what it was designed for.

EDIT: and if you're curious, that was with off the shelf Barnaul, so no hand-load trickery.

Sounds nice. What kind of sights?

I've only shot the Finnish RK62 in the military, which is based on the AK47. With ironsights shot a bunch to a fist sized area and got my reward leave for that and a honor mention golden trigger. This was at 164yards.

[Yeetilini]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Damien:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yeetilini:

I have put both my AKM and my 74M side folder thru the Marine rifle quals. 31 on the AKM and 36 on the 74M. 17in pattern at 500yds with the AKM, little less with the 74m.
Being that the average adult male chest size is 39-49in, it can and will do exactly what it was designed for.

EDIT: and if you're curious, that was with off the shelf Barnaul, so no hand-load trickery.

Sounds nice. What kind of sights?

I've only shot the Finnish RK62 in the military, which is based on the AK47. With ironsights shot a bunch to a fist sized area and got my reward leave for that and a honor mention golden trigger. This was at 164yards.

POSP 4x24 absolute favorite optic

[Ghannon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von -=312th=- Tantrix:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ghannon:

7.62 is not any less accurate than 5.56 in real life. The difference in accuracy comes down to the skill of the shooter when handling a greater recoil.


I hope you are talking about in game performance. In real life, the 5.56 has struggled against both unarmored and armored targets. The 5.56 round also has a long history of under performance in extreme temperature environments and dense foliage.

The primary reason that the US military developed the 5.56 was so that a soldier could carry more ammo at once, but at the time, body armor was far less of a concern than it is today. The US military has long planned to replace the round with a larger 5.8, 6.5, or 6.8. Bureaucrats who keep getting in the way are more concerned with the cost and logistics than they are combat effectiveness.

Yes, even in real-life because the 5.56 has a flatter trajectory, everyone knows that. If you're saying you can pull off the same shots with the 7.62, sure you can, and at 300yds you'd be holding over almost a foot and a half with an AK so good luck.

As far as armor penetration, that is also not a secret. Level III steel body armor will not stop 5.56 M193 but will stop 7.62x39

Level 4 plates will stop rounds that it is not even rated to stop, and more than 1 or 2 times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVxgl9m2om4

I would take an AK over the complex mechanics of an M4 style rifle any day, especially in extreme temperature environments. I was actually laughing when I saw the Taliban on the news with American rifles because I know they do not have the logistics or skill to maintain such a weapon.

America has a problem with making unnecessarily complex weapons systems that require a multi trillion-dollar budget to maintain, this is one of the reasons that we did not send Ukraine any Abrams tanks. An Abrams tank is too easily turned into a liability if it is not constantly serviced, just like M4 style rifles.