My one issue with GZW

[Elhazzared]

The bundle bonus. Not so much the extra starting gear, that doesn't bothers me but the extra big secure container and locker space, that to me is a straight up pay to win for the higer priced versions vs the basic one.

And yes, I know Tarkov does it and that's the only reason I don't buy (that and the whole BS about them wanting to sell PVE for 250 bucks when you can get that for free with a mod). Still this is a point where you could also do better than Tarkov.

Also no, this is not a demand that the developers do this for all the people who like the game. It is me explaining the reasons why though I want to buy the game, I am chosing not to. I don't see the storage or secure container space as merely convinience. It is very powerful because it dictates not only what you can never lose as well as how much you can effectively hoard for a rainy day.

If GZW ever removes these kind of bonus as an incentive to buy the higher value versions then I will buy the game on the spot but until that changes I'll just avoid it.

Thanks.

[Ember Loom]

Its a staple of the extraction shooter genre. If you want to know actual pay to win secure container thats in arena breakout where you have to pay for it and its only limited time. The argument can be made that its fine because that game is FTP. But this sort of feature is advent in all extraction shooters, I would avoid the sub genre all together if this upsets you. Though GZW is a fantastic game, I hope you try it. The only thing a bigger container really helps with is maybe putting a quest item in there and thats it. Most people use it for meds, keys, or ammo. And everyone starts off with the basic one.

Though I wish you luck my man, and no this is not flame. Im not a ♥♥♥♥ like half the internet, just posting my response to how you feel, since its public.

(shameless self promo about the game: https://youtu.be/_RkfMBol-Mk?si=MxiuW9bg0Z0Nd21S )

[Elhazzared]

Incursion Red River doesn't does that as an example, I'm just waiting for it to get more content to dive into it. I also have Stalker GAMMA which isn't an extraction shooter but it does plays and feels like one minus death penalties.

My point is that, even if something is standard for a genre, so long as we can recognise it's bad then we can strive for better. I realise it's an easy way for developers to make more money (and publishers too, those more often being the bigger culprit here)but it will also cost them some customers and have their product associated with being pay to win which is a big red mark against any game, especially in western countries.

Either way, I'm not really expecting it to change but if it does change then I will buy it since I've seen enough of the game to know I will like it however I can't support a game that has pay to win features.

[d3fct]

It is 100% p2w, tho ppl will stand up and say it "convenience" besides "Tarkov" does it.
Anything that you can spend real money on to gain an advantage over someone else who didn't IS p2w.

[Dub U]

Originally posted by d3fct:

It is 100% p2w, tho ppl will stand up and say it "convenience" besides "Tarkov" does it.
Anything that you can spend real money on to gain an advantage over someone else who didn't IS p2w.

Explain how it is an advantage. The larger secure container just gives you a bit more insurance on items and the large storage space is kinda defeated by how cheap large packs are. There's no real competitive advantage over other players that don't have it. I just have the base game and I find the secure box just fine. Would it be NICE for it to be larger? Well of course. Does it give people an edge over me? Not really as I can keep my quest items in it just as they can. You can't even fit a full primary in the secure box. A receiver, a pistol, sure. But when guns are as cheap as they are from the store, what's the real advantage?

[Thizcrusher]

Originally posted by d3fct:

It is 100% p2w, tho ppl will stand up and say it "convenience" besides "Tarkov" does it.
Anything that you can spend real money on to gain an advantage over someone else who didn't IS p2w.

Calm your tits bro

[Elhazzared]

Originally posted by Dub U:

Explain how it is an advantage. The larger secure container just gives you a bit more insurance on items and the large storage space is kinda defeated by how cheap large packs are. There's no real competitive advantage over other players that don't have it. I just have the base game and I find the secure box just fine. Would it be NICE for it to be larger? Well of course. Does it give people an edge over me? Not really as I can keep my quest items in it just as they can. You can't even fit a full primary in the secure box. A receiver, a pistol, sure. But when guns are as cheap as they are from the store, what's the real advantage?

The secure package is a double boon. It is extra safe space of items you will never lose and it is extra storage which means you can take more stuff in/out. It may not be much but it is something and undeniably an advantage.

The storage size is a big advantage because it means you can stockpile a larger amount of armor and weapons and so on, in other words, you can have more kits safe in case you have a few loses in a row, it significantly mitigates bad luck.

Technically even the extra gear is an advantage, you just have more and better gear to start than someone who doesn't. This is an advantage that disapears over time but early into a wipe it's there. That said this is the one I don't particularely mind much mostly because I am a PVE player however it is an advantage no matter how you look at it.

[Deadly Chicken XoP']

Originally posted by Elhazzared:

The bundle bonus. Not so much the extra starting gear, that doesn't bothers me but the extra big secure container and locker space, that to me is a straight up pay to win for the higer priced versions vs the basic one.

You cn earn the larger secure containers in game by doing the tasks. plus it makes no difference to your ability to "win"

You can loot high tier weapons from AI bosses fairly early on, you might jsut have to go for a walk to get to the POI

[Drip Inspector]

wait until this guy realizes what Arena Breakout is gonna be doing...

[Smol Tonk]

1st time?
EOD in tarkov was like 250 euro

[Elhazzared]

Originally posted by Deadly Chicken XoP':

You cn earn the larger secure containers in game by doing the tasks. plus it makes no difference to your ability to "win"

You can loot high tier weapons from AI bosses fairly early on, you might jsut have to go for a walk to get to the POI

I have seen nothing saying you can earn the bigger secure containers though that would be at least a step in the right direction. Still missing the locker space.

And going against boss AI with weak gear isn't likely going to end well, not only they are pretty tough, they got a lot of tough enemies around them. Again I don't care much about getting more or less starting gear, I was just explaining that it is an advantage even if one that eventually gets overcome.

Originally posted by Credible Threat:

wait until this guy realizes what Arena Breakout is gonna be doing...

I am not interested in arena breakout because I'm not interested in PVP. Same reason I wasn't interested in Tarkov until it got a PVE option to it (first in the form of a mod and now also official) but I still don't buy Tarkov for the same reasons.

Still I think it's valid to give this kind of feedback to developers so that they are aware that for some customers this is a red line. They may do nothing about it or they might feel like it needs addressing. I'm not here demanding anything, it's their game, they get to decide how they monetise it, not me, I only get a say in whether or not I chose to buy it.

[ArmedGhost-]

Bought the base game, just unlocked a larger lockbox through a task.

Don't see any edition being pay to win in any sense of the term.
Decent weapons and gear are available with level 1 vendors and it doesn't take much time to level them up to level to 2 for better gear.

Players can even go on the outskirts of Midnight to kill geared AI and take their weapons and gear. Really not that hard.

[ArmedGhost-]

Originally posted by d3fct:

It is 100% p2w, tho ppl will stand up and say it "convenience" besides "Tarkov" does it.
Anything that you can spend real money on to gain an advantage over someone else who didn't IS p2w.

A larger stash doesn't yield an advantage or grant players skill out in the field. People who say different editions are pay-to-win haven't actually played a game that's truly a pay-to-win model.

[Elhazzared]

Originally posted by ArmedGhost-:

A larger stash doesn't yield an advantage or grant players skill out in the field. People who say different editions are pay-to-win haven't actually played a game that's truly a pay-to-win model.

I have played P2W before, heck I'm from the era of browser games just for reference and I would for a while play game and make other people pay to win against me cause I'd no life it and overcome them over the course of the day so they wanted to beat me and would open the wallet, at least until the point where upgrades were too expensive and you can no longer catch up to wallet warriors.

While I don't believe in the idea of speaking from a position of autority, since you brought up not knowing what it is then I think we've established that I am well aware of what the worst p2w are (granted mobile games are the worst p2w these days and I am well aware of them). A bigger stash doesn't gives you skill, no p2w gives you skill though, it doesn't grants you better gear than those who are on a basic edition (granted you do start with more and better gear and money with more expensive versions) but what it does do is give you a bigger tolerance for bad luck. You can store more kits so when you die you can grab another kit and go again and you can do this more times than someone on a standard version. Also having more space means more stockpiling of meds and ammo. This is a significant advantage and p2w doesn't necessarely means an advantage in direct combat, it means any and all advantages you may have by paying over someone who doesn't.

[ArmedGhost-]

Originally posted by Elhazzared:

Originally posted by ArmedGhost-:

A larger stash doesn't yield an advantage or grant players skill out in the field. People who say different editions are pay-to-win haven't actually played a game that's truly a pay-to-win model.

I have played P2W before, heck I'm from the era of browser games just for reference and I would for a while play game and make other people pay to win against me cause I'd no life it and overcome them over the course of the day so they wanted to beat me and would open the wallet, at least until the point where upgrades were too expensive and you can no longer catch up to wallet warriors.

While I don't believe in the idea of speaking from a position of autority, since you brought up not knowing what it is then I think we've established that I am well aware of what the worst p2w are (granted mobile games are the worst p2w these days and I am well aware of them). A bigger stash doesn't gives you skill, no p2w gives you skill though, it doesn't grants you better gear than those who are on a basic edition (granted you do start with more and better gear and money with more expensive versions) but what it does do is give you a bigger tolerance for bad luck. You can store more kits so when you die you can grab another kit and go again and you can do this more times than someone on a standard version. Also having more space means more stockpiling of meds and ammo. This is a significant advantage and p2w doesn't necessarely means an advantage in direct combat, it means any and all advantages you may have by paying over someone who doesn't.

Still don't see how having more stash space is pay-to-win. If different editions granted players with more health benefits, like more blood, hydration, stamina, energy etc. then yes, I would say that's pay to win because players are gaining advantages that directly benefits their performance.
Other than players have a larger stash, those extra weapons/ammo do no good while a player is out of the base. Even after getting killed in only takes ~3 minutes to get a kit together, even if you have to buy from vendors.

[Elhazzared]

Originally posted by ArmedGhost-:

Still don't see how having more stash space is pay-to-win. If different editions granted players with more health benefits, like more blood, hydration, stamina, energy etc. then yes, I would say that's pay to win because players are gaining advantages that directly benefits their performance.
Other than players have a larger stash, those extra weapons/ammo do no good while a player is out of the base. Even after getting killed in only takes ~3 minutes to get a kit together, even if you have to buy from vendors.

I just got a larger lockbox through a task, so still don't see that as pay-win-element. I have the standard edition and have been doing just fine. If it was a pay-to-win model, I would actually be struggling to make progress in the game. I can progress just as fast with the standard edition as a player with the support edition.

Because the definition for p2w is any advantange you get over someone by paying is p2w. It doesn't needs to be something that directly translates into a direct combat power boost.

Maybe for you these things are not a big deal, for other people they are.