Should only Ban Hackers; Not Exploiters. Don't Destroy your Player base.

[Blacktronus]

Hacking - someone using any type of software behind the game running to gain an edge.

Exploiter - someone finding a way to gain an edge in a game by mishaps/errors or faults of the developer themselves. (Especially in Early Access where Mishaps/Errors are normal).

This player-base isn't as large as you guys may think, they've sold many copies of this game yes. Yet not many are playing

Hackers need to get banned yes, exploiters are your normal everyday players looking to gain an advantage over difficulty an other players in the game. Every Hardcore player of any game is an exploiter of some way.

A Games "Meta" is to find the best way to achieve success no mater how broken it may be. Games meta changes from developers updating an balancing the scales.....

If a games Meta involves a exploit of the game itself its not the players fault; its the developers for missing it. A player download a outside software to modify the game is on the player an should be banned. A player finding a competitive edge by exploiting game mechanics is on the developer.

Anything the player did to exploit the game only happens because the developer errors an coding. Update your game an fix the exploit. An at worst Reset the players Account.

Banning players for exploits by your faults in coding is foolish.

Focus on the speed-hackers and Aimboters. Exploiters and Broken Meta's will always be in every game.

---------------------------
I'm not banned by the way, enjoy the game an waiting for more updates.

[ArmedGhost-]

Автор сообщения: Mr.Fish

Автор сообщения: No step on snek

I meant the discussion behind it is rather complex due to how people feel about it with different perspectives and yadayada. But yes, the way I explained above is how I try to take care of it in the games I work on :)

You mean the difference in perspectives between cheaters who cope defend their actions and people who dislike cheaters who ruin video games, because that's the only difference i see.

Same here. Only difference I see too.

Not too hard to understand what is an exploit and what's intended.

[No step on snek]

Автор сообщения: Mr.Fish

Автор сообщения: No step on snek

I
You either want cheaters and exploiters banned or you don't, it's not difficult, it's black and white.

Of course, the part of cheaters being out of the game is rather black and white. I just meant, generally speaking, exploits can come in many ways or forms. Some games are ok with it, depending on the level/severity/impact of an exploit. EG. Do you get an advantage vs other players or not, and if it is harmful to the ecosystem/playerbase.

You can also have exploits in for example a PvE only game, in which case some games won't really care you abuse them. Or maybe an exploit that lets you get some exclusive camo you otherwise wouldn't be able to get. Should you ban people because for example the glasses they have on their character are red instead of black... Eh? Probably not. Although you can for example flag the accounts.

But if you exploit to get an advantage on other players, yes, that is pretty much by default bad.

Автор сообщения: ArmedGhost-

[quote=No step on
it's not subjective, if a bug or glitch grants a player any form a benefit, it's an exploit and not intended to be in the game.

I did state "I do believe that if you intentionally use an exploit, which you know is an exploit, and it affects other players their experience, it is totally ok to remove you from the game."

[OGfT_RooK]

I believe as long as said exploits are made public and reported and addressed to the dev, then we should be focused mainly on outright cheaters.

IMO.

[Saws n Sins]

News flash, knowingly exploiting is cheating. Keep telling yourself lies

[Tr3m0r]

Автор сообщения: ArmedGhost-

Автор сообщения: No step on snek

I meant the discussion behind it is rather complex due to how people feel about it with different perspectives and yadayada. But yes, the way I explained above is how I try to take care of it in the games I work on :)

it's not subjective, if a bug or glitch grants a player any form a benefit, it's an exploit and not intended to be in the game.

It actually is subjective though to a degree. Every game has exploits and it takes awhile to identify them all properly and even that is difficult. One could say bunny hoping in counter strike was an exploit but you could do it manually or with key binds. The skillful manual way wasn't considered cheating. But it did exploit the games mechanics to move faster. Quick switching weapons also would be a game exploit. People could do that for the entirety of CSS and then it was fixed in CSGO. The quick switch I'm referring to was to switch to secondary and back to reload ammunition and to put on suppressors faster.

Some exploits actually become part of a meta, some get patched out, it truly depends. While I'm not a cheater ever, and I have pages upon pages of being frustrated with certain games and the cheating problems going unattended, I'm also one to put the onus of responsibility on the developers to communicate and take action to fix the issues and for the community to define the problems and give input.

I'd personally have a hard time thinking banning money dupers to be a thing as it should be patched. I think back to early Cyberpunk 2077 days where there were ways to glitch money from the atm. However it got patched out (I think) and also the game and mechanics evolved so much that it barely really mattered in the end as people would reroll all these materials that eventually had totally different options and functions rendering the previous ones null and void.

So it's truly not super clear cut in every case. I can't stand even griefers but I wouldn't have banned them this early in the game personally. However I do understand that it's a consequence and a risk one has to take when they engage those behaviors when it's identified that they could be banned. I just think in the absence of specific rules then let the game evolve a bit for the nuanced exploits. People have lost a ton of inventory off the early access games glitches and problems and everyone says "it's early access what do you expect." Well if people found glitches for the money then it makes sense to patch it but not ban for it at this point. It also begs the question of is doing the glitch bannabe, is taking a dupe bannable or both? Only the strictest would say both but it's not nearly realistic. Most don't sit on forums and even know money or items someone dropped them even is called duping or that they could be banned.

[MustardTiger]

Ok but it is clear cut in this case. People are duping items over and over. Ban them.

[Deadly Chicken XoP']

I think once the game is released then things re different, but seriously how are money dupers effecting you in early access ? the grenade bug was patched out of the game and the devs literally asked us to test it, here it is

A thrown grenade can teamkill in basecamp if the player leaves the server before detonation.
Squad up with someone from the same faction.
The non-leader squad member throws a fragmentation grenade near a guard or player in their own Base Camp.
Disconnect from the server before detonation; the squad leader stays on the server.
Reconnect to the same server (by connecting while in the same squad as before) and observe if the guard or player is injured or dead.

[Deadly Chicken XoP']

Автор сообщения: Deadly Chicken XoP'

I think once the game is released then things re different, but seriously how are money dupers effecting you in early access ? the grenade bug was patched out of the game and the devs literally asked us to test it, here it is

A thrown grenade can teamkill in basecamp if the player leaves the server before detonation.
Squad up with someone from the same faction.
The non-leader squad member throws a fragmentation grenade near a guard or player in their own Base Camp.
Disconnect from the server before detonation; the squad leader stays on the server.
Reconnect to the same server (by connecting while in the same squad as before) and observe if the guard or player is injured or dead.

They asked us to test this for them, how can they ban for that ? :p

I think you need to get your knickers untwisted right now while we are in very early access, everything you do now will be wiped anyway.

Using cheat software is a different matter but personally I think banning for testing bugs in the game is stupid at this stage.

I have tested the grenade bug and the duplication bug and havent been banned. I havent done it heaps, just to see how it works and if its been patched out of the game. But I really dont care if someone has done it or not.

[LonelyCookie]

If you ban exploiters, there will be noone trying to exploit. Which means theres noone trying to find issues, problems and glitches within the game.

I enjoy progressing normally, but I see the benefit they bring to the game.

Once exploit is found, fix it, if it included unfair gain of gear or items, remove the items. But not the player who discovered a major problem with your game.

Because once you release the next content update in the Early Access, its not going to be me trying out new exploits inside your game...its going to be him. I will be enjoying the game as is, hes going to try to break it in areas you didnt do well. Who is more valuable for development, me or him?

[Mr.Fish]

Автор сообщения: Deadly Chicken XoP'

Автор сообщения: Deadly Chicken XoP'

I think once the game is released then things re different, but seriously how are money dupers effecting you in early access ? the grenade bug was patched out of the game and the devs literally asked us to test it, here it is

They asked us to test this for them, how can they ban for that ? :p

I think you need to get your knickers untwisted right now while we are in very early access, everything you do now will be wiped anyway.

Using cheat software is a different matter but personally I think banning for testing bugs in the game is stupid at this stage.

I have tested the grenade bug and the duplication bug and havent been banned. I havent done it heaps, just to see how it works and if its been patched out of the game. But I really dont care if someone has done it or not.

Автор сообщения: Deadly Chicken XoP'

I think once the game is released then things re different, but seriously how are money dupers effecting you in early access ? the grenade bug was patched out of the game and the devs literally asked us to test it, here it is

A thrown grenade can teamkill in basecamp if the player leaves the server before detonation.
Squad up with someone from the same faction.
The non-leader squad member throws a fragmentation grenade near a guard or player in their own Base Camp.
Disconnect from the server before detonation; the squad leader stays on the server.
Reconnect to the same server (by connecting while in the same squad as before) and observe if the guard or player is injured or dead.

That specific quote is referring to the test branch of the game, not public servers in the main branch.

So good try, repeating exploits is a bannable offence in all multiplayer games including this one, you can twist it up as much as you like, you are mistaken, you are not here to use bugs to gain an advantage or annoy other players, you accepted that fact when you installed the game, go read the EULA for the game.

exploit bugs for your personal gain, or diminish the experience of other players.

The fact the game is in EA is irrelevant, it is not carte blanche to break rules, it's still a bannable offence under the game's EULA.

Автор сообщения: LonelyCookie

If you ban exploiters, there will be noone trying to exploit. Which means theres noone trying to find issues, problems and glitches within the game.

I enjoy progressing normally, but I see the benefit they bring to the game.

Once exploit is found, fix it, if it included unfair gain of gear or items, remove the items. But not the player who discovered a major problem with your game.

Because once you release the next content update in the Early Access, its not going to be me trying out new exploits inside your game...its going to be him. I will be enjoying the game as is, hes going to try to break it in areas you didnt do well. Who is more valuable for development, me or him?

Him yes, because you do not understand the difference between playing the game and finding a bug and reporting it, and someone finding a bug and continuing to exploit that bug to gain an advantage/annoy other players.

The devs are not banning people for finding exploits/bugs, they are banning exploiters/cheaters who use these methods to gain money/gear, or to kill players when they should otherwise be unable too. It's not difficult to understand the difference.

[Mo_is_here]

just as everyone is saying, "it's early access". right?
we get to know and report all bugs. some just take advantage of the bugs. For THAT shouldnt be banned as cheating.
If you create a game so buggy and people take them bugs as their own advantages, why is it cheating and get banned?
This is why i said, dont release the game for testing/playing before it's suitable.
banning people about using bugs is slapping on your own face, telling you that your game is not complete, still needs revised.

[Kashra Fall]

Автор сообщения: Mo_is_here

just as everyone is saying, "it's early access". right?
we get to know and report all bugs. some just take advantage of the bugs. THAT shouldnt be banned as cheating.
If you create a game so buggy and people take them bugs as their own advantages, why is it cheating and get banned?
This is why i said, dont release the game for testing/playing before it's suitable.
banning people about using bugs is slapping on your own face, telling you that your game is not complete, still needs revised.

If you are smart enough to know something is wrong when you do it. Then you're smart enough not to use said wrong thing, right? Rules are rules, regardless of a game's state.

[Zuh]

Автор сообщения: Staquix

Автор сообщения: Zuh

It's hard to say for what really people are getting bans but it's concerning that there is no middle ground approach. I haven't heard about timed bans at all.

I professionally manage and lead team of people. Employees don't always do what the supposed but they are not sacked straight away for any transgressions. There is a spectrum of measures to utilise to create good work culture.

When I was inexperienced at my role, I was strict and uncompromising... with time I learned that communication and adult approach works better most of the time.

How we say: The trick is to use right hammer for the job.

I'm sure that translates in many ways to how to manage player-base and game community.

The "adult approach" wold be to not do anything to break the rules of the game. An adult would know there are consequences to there actions and not cheat in the first place. An adult would expect a swift and negative reaction to there bad actions and not whine when there well deserved punishment was delivered.

I admire your passion but with that sentiment, every crime should be punished with life sentence.

This topic seems to bring extemists from both sides of the argument. Not really great space for constructive discussion.

[Mo_is_here]

Автор сообщения: Kashra Fall

Автор сообщения: Mo_is_here

just as everyone is saying, "it's early access". right?
we get to know and report all bugs. some just take advantage of the bugs. THAT shouldnt be banned as cheating.
If you create a game so buggy and people take them bugs as their own advantages, why is it cheating and get banned?
This is why i said, dont release the game for testing/playing before it's suitable.
banning people about using bugs is slapping on your own face, telling you that your game is not complete, still needs revised.

If you are smart enough to know something is wrong when you do it. Then you're smart enough not to use said wrong thing, right? Rules are rules, regardless of a game's state.

right....
show me where they post about using bugs as cheating? AND should be banned?

[Mr.Fish]

Автор сообщения: Mo_is_here

Автор сообщения: Kashra Fall

If you are smart enough to know something is wrong when you do it. Then you're smart enough not to use said wrong thing, right? Rules are rules, regardless of a game's state.

right....
show me where they post about using bugs as cheating? AND should be banned?

5. Code of Conduct
Through the action of purchasing, downloading, installing, or playing the game, you acknowledge and agree that you will not:
create a false identity for the purpose of misleading others,
publish, transfer, or distribute any inappropriate, indecent, obscene, foul, or unlawful conduct,
use third-party party software to modify the game,
violate the rights of others, defame, abuse, harass, threaten, spam, or otherwise interfere with other users' use of the Game,

exploit bugs for your personal gain, or diminish the experience of other players.

copy or reproduce the Game, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, disassemble, decompile, or create derivative works based on or related to the game.

Any form of cheating or engaging in prohibited actions listed above, including but not limited to

hacking,

exploiting bugs,

using unauthorized third-party software,

or engaging in any behavior that compromises the integrity of our platform, will result in immediate termination of your account without prior notice and revoking of the license.

We reserve the right to take appropriate action, including banning your account and blocking access to our services if such violations are detected. We are committed to maintaining a fair and enjoyable environment for all users, and we appreciate your cooperation in upholding these standards.

https://store.steampowered.com/eula/2479810_eula_0


.
The game's EULA available since day1 launch on the steam store page where it is for all games.