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Why is the AI poor?
Do graphics actually matter compared to gameplay? X-COM UFO runs at 320x240 and i still enjoy it more than most modern strategy games.
How are the techs downgraded?
Why is it idiotic?
How does generals have more "C&C Spirit"?
Exactly what is "C&C Spirit"? Especially seen as all of them derive pretty linearly from Dune 2 and the RA series is way more "Out there" in terms of oddity.
Other than trying to sell more copies of the Ultimate Collection, what is the point in this thread?
The black Textures only seem to appear on buildings that are powered down - i've never seen them appear on a building that was powered.
You can't compare a 3D game to one using sprites; Tiberium Sun was using prerendered sprites to represent units, C&C3 uses models that are rendered on the fly by the graphics hardware using preset models. This is why Infinity Engine games such as Baldurs Gate II look prettier than Neverwinter Nights for example...
The loss of those units, i agree, was annoying but i wouldn't describe it as a "downgrade". Besides the loss of this tech is explained quite clearly - The GDI have cut 60% of their military budget, NOD was forced underground and lost much of its military tech (though was able to build up forces over time).
Finally, and most damningly, the world has changed, the Tiberium has spread further and much of the world that was still habitable is forced into social and economic chaos. Earth is dying and high technology is only available to those in the blue zones, those who are free of the turmoil in the remaining 20% of the world that isnt dead or chaotic.
The bottom line is technology has been downgraded through bad GDI decision making and cuts and also the state of the planet forcing a tech downgrade on all factions.
I'm glad to hear you are a fellow lover of sprites. I agree that 3D has a long way to come to beat some of the best sprite constructions of the late 90's and early 2000's. I apologise for my initial hostility, but this being the internet im all to used to seeing the vocal majority screaming about the quality of 3D graphics forgetting that in some applications 3D was a backwards step.
Thanks for expanding on the 3D issues with C&C3 i understand the point you are trying to make, and i partially agree; the infantry models are very poor and many textures seem to be of a poorer quality. I would have to check, but this is either down to compression or lower resolution IMHO.
The colours though i think are intentional; Generals and RA3 are always more vibrant because EA/Westwood seem to have uniformly gone with the gaudy colour schemes throughut the RA series and i think after RA2 they just kept going into generals with it.
Emperor:BfD i only every saw colour in the faction colours. IIRC when stripped of the house colours most models were metallic or brown/sand to blend with the rather desolate landscape of Dune. The only exceptions to this were those missions taking place elsewhere that seemed intended to match the colour and lighting of the Lynch Film.
Nonetheless, beyond the black buildings when powered down in C&C3 i feel the lighting and colour is at least consistent throughout the game, even if it doesn't feel quite right. It seems to be an artistic decision rather than a technical fault with the games design.
Not through choice; the world in C&C3 is chaotic and dying remember if 60% is broken socially and economically, 20% is completely inaccessable and only 20% is in a so called "Blue Zone" unaffected by Tiberium or Social and Economic depression then that's a large chunk of the world that may be facing the inability to run "Cars" any longer.
I can think of many examples; but one in particular stands out here in the UK and that is the issue of roads. Prior to Roman occupation we had a steady and linear progression from tracks through to quite complex wooden causeways and bridges occassionally utilising stone.
The Romans arrived and taught how to build not only incredibly straight and level roads, but also incredibly resiliant, hard wearing and well drained ones.
After the Romans left the remaining Britons simply maintained what the Romans had built; though over the centuries it was forgotten how to actually build them and eventually maintain them too. The roads fell into disrepair and slowly regressed back into tracks in all but the places that were the best built or with enough local knowledge to maintain sections of the roads.
Quite simply, we forgot how to build roads to the standards of the Romans; our technology went backwards.
It wasn't until the 12th century that the Britons grasped the concept of working with Stone on huge structures again, and even then we were more focussed on churches than roads and it took centuries further until we began to "Cobble" which was still never as good as the Roman system. That knowledge had simply been lost through apathy, cost effectiveness, politics, religion, invasions and wars.
This may be true, but then again at the time C&C3 was being developed there was a large outcry by the gaming community that the C&C RTS had become stagnant and each game only offered graphical and minor narrative changes; the mechanics were basically the same.
The easiest way to change the mechanics whilst not necessarily alienating the majority of the traditionalists is to change the units available... It creates new strategies whilst not changing the game fundamentals.
You only have to look at the hate for C&C4 to see how changing the fundamentals creates problems and outcry.
So create a narrative that explains why the technology has changed, change all the units and make what is essentially the same game again... That is what EA/Westwood seem to have done with C&C3.
Personally i don't like any of the C&C games or their universe. The original RA was intriguing but by RA2 it had become outlandish and comical. I'll play any C&C game, but i can't say it does anything for me than pass the time.
I'm all too aware that all C&C does for me is fill the gap whilst i wait for a true revisiting of what made Dune 2/Dune 2000 great.
I love that universe, and the C&C series always has always appeared to be a EA/Westwood attempt to make a universe around the Dune game mechanics to avoid having to pay royalties to the Herbett estate.
The C&C storylines are shallow and cliche, as are the missions; i feel nothing for the factions or their leaders.
At least with the mechanics of the Dune universe and the houses there was some depth and many players found themselves drawn to particular houses and ideaologies when playing. This never really quite happened with C&C. I can make no distinction between GDI and the Allies or NOD and The Soviets. Even The Empire seems to be an attempt by EA/Westwood to bring the house of their own devising in Dune, The Ordos, to the RA Universe. In C&C3 we see the arrival of a faction not to dissimilar to those minor houses in Emperor:BfD.
Basically C&C fulfills a yearning for a deeper strategy and narrative we haven't seen for quite some time in the genre and that is the only reason i buy the games and still play. But i don't play for the C&C universe, i never have.
PS: TS units in C&C3 http://www.moddb.com/mods/tiberium-essence
its still better than an average RTS.
EA games just can't make games and ruins every franchise, like Sims, yes they managed to ruin this money print series too.
Original Tiberium Sun has still a lot of Fans and is still played, this one is almost given up.
EA is just a bad game maker. This game was and is a forced Battle For Middle Earth with Tanks. This one just doesn't have the good gameplay and Ideas from TS.
My Personal 3 Points why I thing the Tuiberium Sun is better.
1 Shroud 2 You have a better overview and 3 at least you can speed in game up.
The Tiberium Wars is extremely slow compared to the old one.
There are at least some good Mods , that do fix a lot of things.
Shroud is a unique experience. And I did see no mod that did this.
And a modder cant make a tool to speed up ingame , like be Starcraft 2 or the old C&C.
There are a lot of stuff missed from original games, EA did not include in the sequels.
And exactly this kills by a sequel the game. I want in a sequel see development of the game, not random stuff put together.
4 Factions and improved AI, beat the AI at hard and than you will understand why a lot of people just arent happy with Tiberium Wars.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dawn-of-the-tiberium-age
If only more developers and publishers realised this i would not be a gamer of 25+ years still finding that i love the games of the early to mid 90's more than their modern counterparts.
I couldn't agree with you more.
Things went wrong about the time the marketers and publishers decided graphics and not gameplay and/or narrative were what sold games IMHO...
Sequels, whether they be games, films, books or works of art should always be a development of the original :)
P.S. Like it or not, mods are the last thing keeping the C&C franchise still alive. And some of them are actually really good. Rise of the Reds and Mental Omega as a few examples.
1 Most games just don't do this anymore, make a character you can remember. Yes I mean beside Starcrafts Jim Raynor or Sarah Kerrigan, you possible would only remember Characters from true CnC.
Like Kane or Seth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7kTaO1czuk
Company of Heroes, Planetary Annihilation , Supreme Commander , Etherium or Warhammer.
Well good games, but you just don't have the same experience, like videos and missions are related to stuff they said or they are somehow ingame. I miss to have a protagonist and antagonist.
2 RTS games are reduced to spawn points, even SupCom is just a big spawn point, so you spawn units and rush them into battle. But what about the base and base defense ?
In true CnC you could take down Minimap by destroy the radar of the enemy.
You had Walls and Doors. You could repair captured civil builings ,
you could choose a place where to start ,by big maps.
3 You did have reliable units. Today RTS is based each unit needs a babysitter.
Today Trooper babysit Tank from Anti Tank guns/Anti Tank guns babysit Trooper from Tank
/Anti Air units babysit from Air Units/Air Units from Troopers and so on.
So you must mix units, so they just could watch over each other.
But where are the real Soldiers Today ?
In CnC you had so many units they were good by themselves.
Even the harvester could kill troopers. Mechs could step down Tanks and Troopers. Mammoth was able to fight by himself. Underground Flame Tank could attack a base by himself. A troop Cyborg was able to face some vehicles. And so on.
Tesla Tank, Mirage Tank , Prisma Tank. Mammoth could take down troopers and Tanks alone.
Etherium is good, just to hard for the todays average RTS player.
SupCom 1 +2 are far better than EA stuff. Yes i know its hard to play, but its what some people want. You can make the game more easy just by shut down some buildings.
Well CnC has just one point, its easy to play, you must not think just spam around 20 tanks.
The problem with Hover and Walker tech is two-fold. Hover tech factories and facilities have been overrun and claimed by Tiberium. Further it was highly expensive AND completely useless for anything of mainline battle tanks. MLRS Hovercraft were useless on the open field due to light armor, but excelled at AA and Pursuit, but in a world of non-existant Nod unification, reduced GDI spending, and the like, it is no longer plausible to field these units. Also, Many of the manufacturing regions are being overrun with Tiberium. Also, Walkers are too easily sabotaged. While the tech is retained, it is not efficient. Also, the mammoth Mk2 was slowly losing battlefield Dominance, plus was extremely expensive. Understand, GDI had been fighting a war for some time, and it was not worth maintaining this line of ultra expensive, easily sabotaged, easily bombed units. GDI thus changed battle doctrine to lighter armor. However, the Mk3 still proved efficient on the Battlefield and could still face down many enemies at a much cheaper Budget. GDI also has poured into Sonic Tech, since if you bother to read, it fights Tib rather well and helps reclaim zones from Tiberium, well..until the Temple Prime Detonation.
On a note of development, it would have been real easy to include the classics. But they also did nothign. The Titan would Still be the Predator Tank. So why? Because the Writers wanted to show a changed doctrine and the effect of the new GDI doctrines on the world. You simply want nostalgia ina world that lore wise simply can not support this military anymore for mainstream units. There was no laziness on the developers part. It was just as simple to make a the CLassics. Further, the addition of a Third Playable faction instead the Classics, who all have a Unit made anyway for their role in the Sun game, is a rather ignorant and simple minded perspective. The new Faction played a major role in the game's story and the development of the Series. Further, this new faction was a complete one with it's own rules and style, which most Like. The rules of the Game are all the exact same. Radar buildings, Power, Defenses, Barracks and Factories, and techs are all specific to this game's time period and are well placed.
EA explained it more the way we were lazy again, so make everything as cheap as possible.
extremly the faction design was obviously affected by EA doctrine.
1 Scrin = well they all just looked cheap and no units voices.
My Problem is not that they did have "like Human Tech units" tanks, troopers did have cheap design, just gun on 4 legs, like Tanks , Protoss carrier. It was a mix of lame sound.
If they at least did say words, instead of click, clack.
2 Nod = Ok , by cabal revolt they don't have cyborgs, but why do troopers lack the firepower anyway ?#
Underground Tech and Mobile Clock device the main point I hate the faction rework. They looked just like GDI.
Underground Tech removed by balance ? LOL. You could move in TS = 5 troopers and flame tanks.
Scrin can move all they forcein this instant Teleporter.
3 Worst was GDI. There is a cannon reason for hovercraft and walkers by GDI or cyborgs by nod. Tiberium is Toxic.
Anyway a Titan Walker can crush Tank with his legs. Just step them down.
Hovercraft is better if you have Water on the map, so he can reach places a tank can't.
Walkers and Hovercraft Tank can reach places a tank can't.
Even if Nod was for some time away, GDI still had to manage conflicts.
Even if GDI has developed itself in a "Police force" , you are here in a build game, so latest by start of conflicts, they would have just rebuild and rearm they good war Stuff.
The blue Prints are still there. The Tech is still there and the Production capabilities.
GDI design really kills the game. Who is that dimwit to fight with knifes if you can anytime reforge the swords ?
And i'd still give them all up for a modernisation of this (I didn't like Emperor)...
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dune+2000&num=100&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMImYuE0IuZxwIVLC_bCh1tWgLz&biw=1920&bih=898