Skirmish AI Not For Casual Players

[morrokain10587]

I'm curious to know what people playing skirmish think of the AI. I played a few games on normal with the "turtle" AI and it seems far too perfect to me.

I think of normal as a "casual RTS" setting. Not beginner level, but not particularly challenging compared to hard or brutal if that setting exists.

On the normal setting, the AI perfectly autocounters you. And I do mean perfectly.

Garrison units in a building? Expect a flamethrower unit in under a minute to come clear them all out.

Have enough tanks and base defense to stand up to the 6 avatars sent to your base? 4-5 bomber groups will start hitting everything over and over.

Finally build the ridiculous amount of AA you need to stop the bombers? Avatar and commando combination kills all your ground based defenses.

I mean come on here. I want a minor challenge but this is normal not brutal. I got a heroic juggernaught and the AI immediately focused it down. And it wasnt unsupported, the AI just ignored the support and focus fired it. While the commando used the same time to detonate most of my AA I had finally built.

Thoughts? Do people actually enjoy skirmish in this game or is it for masochists only? Am I just bad?

[Cat]

I think this autocounter is too ridiculous. Every time you build an engineer, they will always send a buzzer, APC or buggy to go after him all the time. Even if you are playing on maps with tech buildings near your starting point, it's impossible to train an engineer on the first minute and capture that nearby tech because they will immediately send counters to kill it.

For example on tournament arena, i can't even capture the closest tiberium spike early unless the computer is playing scrin then I need to build a trail of militant squads on the saboteurs path all the way to the tech building because they will send buzzers. GDI and Nod? I gotta wait for tanks before I could send the engineer because they will send APCs or buggies.

Same thing for commandos, expect a buggy/APC to constantly hunt him down every 1 minute until the commando is dead or the computer runs out of money or war factory. Even for the Nod stealth commando, the APC will just park right next to her waiting for her to uncloak.

On balanced hard, the computer never builds grenadiers or flamethrowers unless you have units inside garrisons so your infantry are safer if they are out in the open to prevent triggering the enemy to train these advanced anti infantry units.

I noticed they will constantly send these counters if you have these targets and they also send engineers if they are uncaptured tech or husks. You can abuse this by making the computer waste money constantly or lure their units to a killzone to farm veterancy. I usually end my skirmish games looking at the score screen, the enemy's favorite unit (most build) are engineers lol.

[Schproemftell [WE]]

little late here
as far as i know the AI in this game is adaptive which was the Main GEM of this game when it released, the difficulty setting is basically just HOW ADAPTIVE or rather how fast it is for example you can play on EASY and the AI will still pull out ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if given the Time, if you start on medium certain behaviors are already in effect

easy starting the ai probes for defense weaknesses and analyses your troop composition
and will slowly grow in tech

Medium fast in development and even knows your defenses whenever you build them
and already pulls out superior BS like Bombers and given little time Super weapons

Hard ... no idea i cannot even beat Medium reliably

oh by the way the AI remembers between matches if you constantly use the same tactics or Base layout it will immediatly chose efficient counter tactics

[morrokain10587]

Ah that makes sense then. I can beat an easy computer but even 2 v 1 against a medium on the unfair advantage map was very challenging.

I like the adaptive nature of the AI, I just wish it wouldn't do it as fast as it does and also tech optimally on normal.

Easy still uses all of the units though, right? Its just slower?

[BeholdThePowerOfNod]

I can beat the AI on medium via Venom spam easily.

Hard, on the other hand, is a different story entirely... I can beat them, but mostly by luck lol

Easy... You literally have to try and lose, the spike between Easy and Medium is quite high.

Brutal functions the Same as Hard, they're only tougher because they start out with double the income than you do.

[Cat]

I found brutal insanely hard. I can beat hard easily with missile+sniper spam, militant + Scorpion or devorer tank + gun walker combo.

Brutal is tough because how they massed a lot of units quickly while expanding for economy at the same time so even if you survived the early attacks, they have control over the tiberium fields.

[morrokain10587]

Yeah Easy is too easy and Medium is too much of a jump from Easy. There needs to be a setting inbetween imo.

I tried both again and the early game with medium is fine. It sends groups of units to attack you while teching. Its the mid point that becomes a difficulty spike. Once it reaches higher tech levels the 4-5 tanks and some missile squads turn into 5-6 high tech units AND bombers AND the threat of superweapons.

This is an obvious case of over-scripting to me. I'll eventually try Kane's Wrath assuming I can fix the "You need the original game to be installed" bug I ran into at first launch, but this version of C+C overtuned things - at a guess I'd say because it wanted to go the E-sport direction for PvP.

[Lanosa]

So, the AI has global vision hacks. That's the only way it can know what you're doing and begin create it's counter. Then, instead that, when you start create something, think in advance how it'll counter that, and create it's counter. You'll end having all kind of units, but that way you can win with numbers and/or micro in battle.

[morrokain10587]

*Update* Ok so I managed to beat a medium AI twice - once with Nod against GDI and once with GDI against Nod.

Some thoughts:

I definitely made a couple of critical mistakes. For one, I wasnt building a crane. My build order was either Powerplant, Barracks, Refinery, Refinery, Warfactory, Harvester or basically the same but one Refinery before the PP and Racks instead of two after.

Now I do Refinery, Crane, Refinery/Powerplant, Barracks, Refinery/Warfactory for the buildings while also getting an outpost. The income difference is pretty significant and allows me to tech and defend much faster.

Next, I didn't fully appreciate that there are upgrades in this C+C. The damage upgrades in particular make a very big difference.

Finally, I was partially mistaken about the bombers. This is actually a Nod command ability that creates a minefield. The bombers are still present, but they can be partially mitigated by AA while the minefield drop can't be mitigated by AA at all. I think its a little too strong for what it costs.

Similarly, the Venom seems a lot stronger (and its even cheaper) than the Orca. It even gets a damage upgrade. So I think some factional balance issues are present as well but that's a little off topic.

[BeholdThePowerOfNod]

Originally posted by morrokain10587:

Similarly, the Venom seems a lot stronger (and its even cheaper) than the Orca. It even gets a damage upgrade. So I think some factional balance issues are present as well but that's a little off topic.

Wait until you play as ZOCOM in Kane's Wrath, those Orcas are pretty powerful.
Also: Zone Raider/Hammerhead spam is SO freaking overpowered! Similar to Flame Tank spam on Black Hand with the Purifying Flame upgrade.