Why does so many people love Nod and / or Kane?

[Menkerot]

Very frequent question on places like reddit which amuses me to no end. What so many people don't understand is that people playing bad guys seldom associate themselves with them. If you like Darth Vader and agent Smith, you don't necessarily behave like them, do you.

I like Nod both gameplay and aesthetics wise. As many pointed out, GDI is just your standard military of today with brown boxes while Nod is so cool with religious, mystical and at times impractical but beautiful elements, and everything is red and black. But plot wise I am not sure that many people love them being religious fanatics and terrorists. What is your opinion?

[Menkerot]

EA didn't ruin the series (apart from TT, apparently), and if anything, changes in CnC3 were the right ones.

[Bovril Brigadier]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Quilnux:

I cannot speak to the people of today but I know back in the early days (C&C1/2) People liked Kane because he was the only character that retained every C&C game since the beginning. All the GDI characters were different between all the C&C games but Kane was always the same.

Canonically General Solomon was the GDI Commander from Tib Dawn and the only reason Slavik didn't return for C&C3 is that the actor had retired.

[Alio]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cat:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Menkerot:

CnC3 is the best that happened to the franchise. Especially for Kane who turned out to be an alien genius instead of a mad human.

Hard disagree, not many C&C fans like the direction of the gameplay or story. Kane being a freak is not that exciting too but expected.

Gonna hard disagree with that take, C&C3 is the GOAT and I've been a fan since 95'.

Red Alert 2 is amazing, even has a slightly better story IMO than C&C3, but it doesn't hold a candle to C&C3 gameplay in 2024.

C&C3 could launch as a brand new title in 2024 and it would still feel like a modern AAA release. They wouldn't even have to do anything other than maybe fix the FPS limit of 30, which on modern monitors with LFC/VRR still feels perfectly fine.

[Mr.Kill]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vovin:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mr.Kill:

C&C 3 in its current state is probably not going to be well loved by casual players

Buddy, C&C3 was released 17 years ago. The only people playing it now are people who have played it in the past, ain't no TikTak kids playing this.

And I'm pretty sure that C&C3 was already on Steam for awhile, along with RA3.

I don't know what Tiktak has to do with this (I assume you're trying to make a joke about generations) but considering that the population blew up to 1.3k for this 17 year old game that became apart of the ultimate collection (and said collection appears to be only way to get the game now without EA play) + the recent threads complaining about difficulty; its pretty obvious new players are now playing it. I don't see how the fact that its 17 years old somehow means massive flocks for RA2 a game with limited graphics vs C&C 3 which has potentially the best graphical style in the 3D C&C series not getting anyone from the current generation. That just doesn't make any sense and is contradictory.

If you were trying to imply the new generation isn't going to play a 17 year old game because ADHD social media well... why they playing RA 2 and why did C&C 3 get a bump then?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Menkerot:

EA didn't ruin the series (apart from TT, apparently), and if anything, changes in CnC3 were the right ones.

Yeah making MG turrets not attack rocket troops was a great change. Nerfing the economy so bad that people just went and played kane's wrath instead and the multiplayer scene in C&C 3 died was the best possible move. Also TT didn't ruin the series apparently clearly that was westwood's fault. /s

These are some weird opinions you've got there. You're okay to have them since honestly no amount of debate is going to get EA to treat the franchise properly anyway.

[Menkerot]

Westwood weren't geniuses some want to think they were. Sorry :) especially since some of them went to on to create Grey Goo :) also, economy in Kane's wrath is the same because multiplayer, but it works just as fine and only in campaign can it be felt in some missions. And you can always downgrade the game to previous patches, no big deal.

As for EA, well...given how modern politics and "the message" work, we are not going to see a proper and normal CnC game anytime soon, sadly. CnC 3 was made by different people and now most developers in these companies are talentless hacks and activists.

[Mr.Kill]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Menkerot:

Westwood weren't geniuses some want to think they were. Sorry :) especially since some of them went to on to create Grey Goo :) also, economy in Kane's wrath is the same because multiplayer, but it works just as fine and only in campaign can it be felt in some missions. And you can always downgrade the game to previous patches, no big deal.

As for EA, well...given how modern politics and "the message" work, we are not going to see a proper and normal CnC game anytime soon, sadly. CnC 3 was made by different people and now most developers in these companies are talentless hacks and activists.

They (former westwood) also went on to make one of the best star wars games of all time though.

we're not going to see a proper and normal C&C game from any dev it seems.

[Menkerot]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mr.Kill:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Menkerot:

Westwood weren't geniuses some want to think they were. Sorry :) especially since some of them went to on to create Grey Goo :) also, economy in Kane's wrath is the same because multiplayer, but it works just as fine and only in campaign can it be felt in some missions. And you can always downgrade the game to previous patches, no big deal.

As for EA, well...given how modern politics and "the message" work, we are not going to see a proper and normal CnC game anytime soon, sadly. CnC 3 was made by different people and now most developers in these companies are talentless hacks and activists.

They (former westwood) also went on to make one of the best star wars games of all time though.

we're not going to see a proper and normal C&C game from any dev it seems.

which one? Most SW games are pretty mediocre, to be honest. There is a reason only a few like KOTOR became legendary. And also LEGO SW because it's just so much pure fun.

well, as long as EA has rights, unfortunately. Just like Grey Goo - not bad as a classic RTS but without all the appeal of CnC setting that is even more important than just gameplay. But maybe limited success of AoE 4 can make EA do something at last.

[Vovin]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mr.Kill:

I don't know what Tiktak has to do with this (I assume you're trying to make a joke about generations) but considering that the population blew up to 1.3k for this 17 year old game that became apart of the ultimate collection (and said collection appears to be only way to get the game now without EA play) + the recent threads complaining about difficulty; its pretty obvious new players are now playing it.

The Ultimate Collection has been around for a decade lol I bought it way back then and instead of CDs, it came with a key code that forced me to play it on Origin. I was also forced into getting the Ultimate Collection at the time because EA had DRM on CD versions of games like Zero Hour that basically made them unplayable somehow- this was a scandal at the time, and basically forced fans to (re)buy a digital version of the game to keep playing it.

The people who bought it here and are playing through the games are those well experienced with these games all along. Origin sucks hard and we're just glad to be able to uninstall it. Just look at Zero Hour: still over 1300 in-game players, which is still more than WARNO which is probably the most relatable RTS with highest production value these days (made by French devs who get high sniffing their own farts).

Also, many of the threads complaining about difficulty are people remembering it being easier. Personally it all feels the same for me.

[Vovin]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Menkerot:

EA didn't ruin the series (apart from TT, apparently), and if anything, changes in CnC3 were the right ones.

Well now, that's just objectively false. EA destroyed C&C just like they destroyed The Mercenaries and other titles. There hasn't been a real C&C game since RA3, released in 2008, just the game that shall not be named and mobile games.

[Menkerot]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vovin:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Menkerot:

EA didn't ruin the series (apart from TT, apparently), and if anything, changes in CnC3 were the right ones.

Well now, that's just objectively false. EA destroyed C&C just like they destroyed The Mercenaries and other titles. There hasn't been a real C&C game since RA3, released in 2008, just the game that shall not be named and mobile games.

if we exclude TT, than not (also, RA3 is in a different setting just like Generals). Nobody denies they could have done better since TT was initially a purely multiplayer project, hence people pretend it never happened, and if so than the series ended on a rather high note (even if kane's wrath ending was a bit inconclusive). But it's apparent the series are on hold, waiting for a new game, and the possibility is always there. Just look at Prince of Persia fans who got to wait quite a lot until at last a new game came out.

[Mr.Kill]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Menkerot:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mr.Kill:

They (former westwood) also went on to make one of the best star wars games of all time though.

we're not going to see a proper and normal C&C game from any dev it seems.

which one?

We're obvlously talking about petroglyph so empire at war.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vovin:

Also, many of the threads complaining about difficulty are people remembering it being easier. Personally it all feels the same for me.

It was easier before 1.09. You had 100% more money before 1.09 dropped income by 50%.

[Cat]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mr.Kill:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sethreal:

You assume too much. You reviewed the game positively but whine to this day that it was only a 9/10 instead of a 10/10. You'd think after seeing just how bad things can get (C&C4) you'd have more appreciation for a good game. But whiners gonna whine.

TBF I don't see the point of the hostile attitudes (from both of you), C&C 3 was the start of the serie's decline as we can see with 1.09 which was when EA decided they wanted to try and mimic company of heroes by dropping income levels and making the game more "tactical". This change was welcomed by competitive players but hated by casual players and well casuals outnumber the competitive almost always. C&C 3 does not have overwhelmingly positive reviews (do note that overwhelmingly positive is an actual review state on steam, I'm not disputing that people in general by 90% or so like C&C 3; just pointing out the terms used can be confusing). This decision making eventually culminated in C&C 4.

In terms of positive reviews and popularity it looks like RA 2 is definitely going to come out on top with its massive 3K reviews mere weeks after its release. C&C 3 in its current state is probably not going to be well loved by casual players (especially not with the very odd bugs that are being reported + the unfixed bugs + the increased non-casual friendly difficulty). C&C 3 is also typically dead in the multiplayer servers and has been so for the last few years (not that this is a particularly bad thing, most people simply don't bother with competitive multiplayer).

In terms of themes, it should be noted that the most popular C&C 3 mods are the ones that infuses all the cool toys right from tiberian sun back into the game. People kinda wanted more sci-fi not less. The implementation of good 3D graphics and most of the traditional mechanics was a step in the right direction but EA being EA went off and ruined the series with its desire to make the game something it really shouldn't have been.

Thank you. This was exactly what I was thinking about C&C3, how 1.09 ruined the game for singleplayers, a step down from Tiberian Sun sci-fi, not the best C&C as more people prefer red alert 2. Westwood had a lot of cool ideas for the game but EA was being EA.

I don't have issues if people like the game but pretending it's perfect and got butthurt when people like us pointed out its flaws that other C&C fans agreed is obnoxious.

[Menkerot]

It's not a step down from TS sci-fi, and even more so if you count Scrin addition. Which, by the way, was planned by westwood long-long ago, as far as Renegade.

Also, butthurt of TS fans when others point out its flaws is even funnier because, as it always happens, such fans wholeheartedly believe their game is a masterpiece. Which neither TS nor RA2 are not.

[Cat]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Menkerot:

It's not a step down from TS sci-fi, and even more so if you count Scrin addition. Which, by the way, was planned by westwood long-long ago, as far as Renegade.

Also, butthurt of TS fans when others point out its flaws is even funnier because, as it always happens, such fans wholeheartedly believe their game is a masterpiece. Which neither TS nor RA2 are not.

It is a step down according to a lot of fans. I didn't realise this until someone pointed it out so at least it wasn't too obvious.

Nobody denied scrin was planned by Westwood or TS and RA2 aren't perfect. There were tons of cut content scrapped because of time constraints. Scrin was planned long before Tiberian Sun was released. Butthurt RA2 and TS fanboys are funny and toxic I can agree (especially the competitive tryhards) but at least they are mature enough to admit the flaws and older than the C&C3 fanboys who cry when someone pointed out its flaws because they are the ones who believed their game is a masterpiece. You can see it in this topic while no one was complaining when TS or RA2 got criticized here xD.

[Menkerot]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cat:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Menkerot:

It's not a step down from TS sci-fi, and even more so if you count Scrin addition. Which, by the way, was planned by westwood long-long ago, as far as Renegade.

Also, butthurt of TS fans when others point out its flaws is even funnier because, as it always happens, such fans wholeheartedly believe their game is a masterpiece. Which neither TS nor RA2 are not.

It is a step down according to a lot of fans. I didn't realise this until someone pointed it out so at least it wasn't too obvious.

Nobody denied scrin was planned by Westwood or TS and RA2 aren't perfect. There were tons of cut content scrapped because of time constraints. Scrin was planned long before Tiberian Sun was released. Butthurt RA2 and TS fanboys are funny and toxic I can agree (especially the competitive tryhards) but at least they are mature enough to admit the flaws and older than the C&C3 fanboys who cry when someone pointed out its flaws because they are the ones who believed their game is a masterpiece. You can see it in this topic while no one was complaining when TS or RA2 got criticized here xD.

:summercat2023:

Sure but it's not that lots of fans are experts and you should trusts them, is it. Yes, some things toned down a bit not but again, Scrin were not present in TS and they are much more sci-fi than anything before. And it explained in the lore why things changed, from Nod technology to cyborgs and mechs. Any change can be subjective but changes in TW are implemented well enough (especially when they explained a lot in Kane's wrath).

As for fanboys - yes, but I personally am yet to see anything funnier than people telling that TS is the best in the series (which someone wrote in this thread) or in another one here on Steam some people wrote that CnC3 doesn't exist (for example, in a thread about proper sequel to Kane's wrath and not TT), which was made even funnier when the same person also wrote that WarCraft 3 is trash and Chris Metzen is the worth thing to happen to WC setting. Yeah, sure, it's not like people ever played WC1-2 but everybody played WC3 and millions play WoW to this day. Same with HoMM, by the way. 1-2 titles are known only to a few while everybody played and remembers HoMM 3.