Tomb Raider I-III Remastered Starring Lara Croft

Tomb Raider I-III Remastered Starring Lara Croft

Ver estadísticas:
Mr. Alan Wake... 16 MAR 2024 a las 9:36 a. m.
[TR3] Temple Ruins level is by far the worst level of the whole trilogy
Played TR1, TR2 and both expansions and had a blast, now i'm starting TR3 and oh man this is sooo bad.
Basically this level introduces traps & mechanics that force the player to know exactly what will happen before it happens.
- Boulders you have to know exactly when & how they drop because you have a quarter second to make a 180 roll : Check
- Corridor with swinging blade & retracting spike wall requiring more precision than any other TR level ever : Check
- Same as above with a spike-trap roof : Check
- Awful 6-armed statue protecting itself requiring you to shoot once, holster and run, reshoot once, rince and repeat for 10 minutes making it the most boring enemy ever : Check
- Room with 2 levers + spike-trap roof even harder than the one in Temple of Xian : Check
- Room with pool & current that pushes you into spike trap walls requiring you to die to know what happens : Check

This is so far the worst level i've ever played. It's a level 2 and it's harder than any TR1 or TR2 level. The "die and retry" they introduced with this one is probably the worst level-design possible.
Must have made the Playstation players completely mad with the crystal saves in 1999, wow.
Última edición por Mr. Alan Wake...; 16 MAR 2024 a las 9:57 a. m.
< >
Mostrando 16-30 de 32 comentarios
Lanzagranadas 18 MAR 2024 a las 8:39 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por LegendaryThunder:
TR3 was a mess, it was originally supposed to be a spinoff but some how through a lot of shuffling going on at Core it became a main title instead. It had a very short development cycle and I believe they were still missing a writer for Tomb Raider which is why the story is all over the place.

What mess? Did the level design quality drop compared to the previous games, or what was it lacking that TR1/2 did well according to you?

2 was harder than 1, and 3 was harder than 2. And some fan-made levels on TRLE are even harder than anything made by Core. That doesn't mean they're worse.

We could argue all day about where's the line between fair and unfair difficulty, but there's no definitive answer to that. Dark Souls games are generally considered "fair difficulty" even though a first time player is guaranteed to experience a lot of cheap and unavoidable deaths.

It's usually considered fair difficulty when players realize things are perfectly doable once they figured a good method/pattern/strategy to get through it, even when that means learning by trial and error. Same applies to classic TR games.

Difficulty growing with the players is a design philosophy. Repeating the much slower learning curve from TR1 would have made the early game in the following entries boring to returning players. Not every franchise (especially modern ones) have this philosophy, Pokémon is the perfect example: every main game is designed with a difficulty aimed towards newcomers, that's why returning players find them stupidly easy and need to add personal rules to counter that.
LegendaryThunder 18 MAR 2024 a las 12:41 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Lanzagranadas:
Publicado originalmente por LegendaryThunder:
TR3 was a mess, it was originally supposed to be a spinoff but some how through a lot of shuffling going on at Core it became a main title instead. It had a very short development cycle and I believe they were still missing a writer for Tomb Raider which is why the story is all over the place.

What mess? Did the level design quality drop compared to the previous games, or what was it lacking that TR1/2 did well according to you?

....Don't shoot the messenger, I shoot back. :mkb:


" Tomb Raider 3 was developed by a B Team at Core. Core wanted at least 2 years to develop their next game following Tomb Raider 2, but Eidos' greed knew no bounds and they demanded Tomb Raider 3 be done in less than a year to meet demand. Core pulled together a team from employees working on other projects to make Tomb Raider 3 while the main Tomb Raider team worked on Last Revelation. "

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/03/it-felt-like-robbery-tomb-raider-and-the-fall-of-core-design/3/

" Tomb Raider's problems didn't end there. "By [the end of] Tomb Raider II we basically thought that's it. Finished," says Rummery. "We were a bit burned out." They felt that they'd done all they could with the existing engine, and their plan was to have Tomb Raider take a few years off from the spotlight while they worked on a PlayStation 2 sequel. The gods that be at Eidos decreed that there would be another Tomb Raider on the PS1, however, and it'd be out that year—made by another team at Core.

Blindsided, the primary team members of Tomb Raider II lost their passion for the series. They went off and did Project Eden, which was unsuccessful, while the new team got roped into doing three Tomb Raiders in as many years. Each of those games was criticized for a host of problems that were unavoidable in such tight turnarounds. Tomb Raider III was deemed too sprawling and too hard by an increasingly fickle press "

--( For the record I loved Project Eden, it's just that PC market was cut-throat during those times. )--

https://www.eurogamer.net/20-years-on-the-tomb-raider-story-told-by-the-people-who-were-there

" For the new Tomb Raider development team, the crunch hit hard. Tomb Raider 3, which had to come out in time for Christmas 1998, was made it just eight months, just like its predecessor.

"We were a super close team," Andy Sandham, who worked on the game, remembers. "I assumed every team in computer game development was super close, and everybody got on with each other. Little did I know, after leaving those teams, mostly, computer game development is people wanting to stab each other in the face."

Sandham was an FMV artist on Tomb Raider 2, but for Tomb Raider 3 he worked as a level designer and environment artist.

"We all just hammered it," he says. "We were all competitive making levels. We were working to three in the morning. We'd come in about 10 and then just hammered the ♥♥♥♥ out of it."

Most developers who worked on Tomb Raider at Core admit they were in part motivated by money. "
Última edición por LegendaryThunder; 18 MAR 2024 a las 12:42 p. m.
Topazlink 19 MAR 2024 a las 1:25 a. m. 
It's always disheartening to hear how publishers can majorly screw over developers. It sounds like the devs really wanted to do the series justice, but were forced to push out sequel after sequel, with the publishers not caring one bit about the quality or the devs health. We can only imagine what the series would be like if there hadn't been this mentality of "make another one!"...
EF_Neo1st 19 MAR 2024 a las 1:32 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Mr. Alan Wake...:
Publicado originalmente por Lanzagranadas:
Each game in the original trilogy was made harder than the previous one. Most likely by design, to stay challenging for returning players.

Even TR2 was like that. You have a death trap gauntlet literally in the first level, and many other levels with plenty of deadly environmental hazards as well, that are a nightmare to deal with at first.

You have enough time & clue to figure out each of the traps on The Great Wall or even Temple of Xian if you are quick enough lol.
The first section of the great wall gives you a skeleton at the exact place the opening is to escape the spike trap.
The second section is okay too, you just have to keep running, the only difficulty is if you want to pick up the green dragon but at least you GET what HAPPENS lol.

This is the difference with Temple Ruins here : You can't see sh*t before it happens lmao 👀.
Devs basically pushed the "die and retry" traps even further ^^.
You dont have "that much time", sorry, you either know what you are doing or you get at least a few deaths there just to figure out (and guess how many deaths it takes the first time you try to collect the items in these trap rooms that are already very strict timed).
And, as mentioned, it is the very first level so the game is telling you what kind of a ride you are in by playing the game
Hevihenkka 19 MAR 2024 a las 2:44 a. m. 
Temple Ruins was far more enjoyable than "The Deck" from Tomb Raider II for me. Gods that was tedious level to play through, especially after going through 5 levels of Rig and Maria Doria.

But this is why I love this trilogy. Just like with Dark Souls. Everyone has their favorite level/area and... level/area that they absolutely hate.
Bezimienny 19 MAR 2024 a las 7:32 a. m. 
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ man, I remember playing it for the first time as a kid back then, around 2000, I was stuck at this level for like half a year. Guides were not as easily available. Also, it scared me ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with its atmosphere and ambient sounds. I thought that this level is the last one, so that's why it's so hard xD
When I finally managed to beat it, I was shocked to see how much game is still there to play. Fortunately, the rest went much more smoothly. To this day this nasty piece of crap remains one of my favourite games of all time, and I'm having a blast playing the remake.
LegendaryThunder 19 MAR 2024 a las 4:49 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Hevihenkka:
Temple Ruins was far more enjoyable than "The Deck" from Tomb Raider II for me. Gods that was tedious level to play through, especially after going through 5 levels of Rig and Maria Doria.

But this is why I love this trilogy. Just like with Dark Souls. Everyone has their favorite level/area and... level/area that they absolutely hate.

I adored the deck as a child, The loop of the map is...well...a loop. You double back twice where as with Aldwych not only can you get lost but you can miss key items and it is the level with the most switches and a god forsake switch maze puzzle. Then the key items are not only entirely easy to surmise where they go, but the activator for them is directly in front of the door instead of the box.

I'm sorry the deck didn't spark the interest that it did me, my god the water levels in 2 really justified the harpoon gun.
Alwoke 20 MAR 2024 a las 5:53 a. m. 
I might be the rare one here but Temple Ruins is one of my fav levels and I also really like The Deck, its very easy to finish

Publicado originalmente por Hevihenkka:
Temple Ruins was far more enjoyable than "The Deck" from Tomb Raider II for me. Gods that was tedious level to play through, especially after going through 5 levels of Rig and Maria Doria.

But this is why I love this trilogy. Just like with Dark Souls. Everyone has their favorite level/area and... level/area that they absolutely hate.
Lanzagranadas 20 MAR 2024 a las 6:03 a. m. 
Temple Ruins has a nice design, and it's a very 'Tomb Raider' level. It's probably just too brutal for a 2nd level, it could have been better if it came at a later point in the game. It's basically like if they made Opera House the second level of TR2.
dml! 20 MAR 2024 a las 7:00 a. m. 
Played this level last night, second time I've ever played TR3. It honestly wasn't as bad as I remember from the first playthrough, though with a caveat that I was using a guide a bit to make sure I didn't miss any secrets, and that included me reading some of the other details too as I browsed through. Nonetheless it was still a marathon of a level.

Most of the spike trap rooms weren't that bad since I remembered to sprint as much as possible. The one at the end with the water current is a bit awkward but then again in TR2 we had the giant propeller doing a similar thing in Offshore Rig. The ceiling trap one not so long before is annoying though, especially for the achievement since positioning to jump to the highest point on the ladder and the timing to get no damage at all is pretty brutal, took me quite a few tries. There was also one boulder that really was a save-and-reload situation, since by the time you see it move you can't roll and escape, so you have to die once to know which step to roll on in advance.

The statues are a bit of a chore to fight if you only use pistols, but so long as you keep them close and keep back stepping they open up to take damage quite often (just try not to back up into walls or you'll get sliced and diced). If you've been collecting shotgun shells all the time though you should have a lot, and the statues go down pretty quick with around five shots.

There are also some obscurities, like the mud in that flame statue room. I could never find anything to suggest you have to walk at the sides to be able to climb out at the end and avoid drowning, unless I missed something both times I played. Plus a few moveable blocks that barely look different in texture to normal pillars apart from slight shading, though they did amend a few of those in the remastered graphics so it's not as difficult to spot them.

All that said for a first playthrough I think it's a pretty brutal level, even if you have played TR2 before. It's still not a cakewalk if you forgot several things like I did. But that also said, I seem to remember some other levels later in the game that I found more frustrating for ease of getting lost, so I'm interested to see what I think of those second time through. There's also the Lost City of Tinnos, you're in for a treat when you reach that one...
didububi 12 MAR a las 6:40 a. m. 
46-year old part-time gamer here and i just completed India. Temple Ruins was frakkin' hard, but so gratifying to get through. That level is a textbook challenge for any gamer interested in old-school difficulty. No handholding: just lots of trial & error, exploring, looking and thinking.

I used no guide or walkthrough...but died lots, sure. I appreciate the save-anytime multi-slot option!
Última edición por didububi; 12 MAR a las 6:41 a. m.
EF_Neo1st 12 MAR a las 6:44 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por didububi:
46-year old part-time gamer here and i just completed India. Temple Ruins was frakkin' hard, but so gratifying to get through. That level is a textbook challenge for any gamer interested in old-school difficulty. No handholding: just lots of trial & error, exploring, looking and thinking.

I used no guide or walkthrough...but died lots, sure. I appreciate the save-anytime multi-slot option!
Consider it as "intro level", as levels go by it only gets "more intricate and less obvious".
If you want to follow "by this difficulty" I think the London levels are supposed to be last.
Mr. Alan Wake... 12 MAR a las 7:18 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por EF_Neo1st:
Publicado originalmente por didububi:
46-year old part-time gamer here and i just completed India. Temple Ruins was frakkin' hard, but so gratifying to get through. That level is a textbook challenge for any gamer interested in old-school difficulty. No handholding: just lots of trial & error, exploring, looking and thinking.

I used no guide or walkthrough...but died lots, sure. I appreciate the save-anytime multi-slot option!
Consider it as "intro level", as levels go by it only gets "more intricate and less obvious".
If you want to follow "by this difficulty" I think the London levels are supposed to be last.

I'm the author of the thread. and still stand by my OP ^^ !

Temple Ruins is particularly frustrating when it comes to trial and error. It's also badly placed when it comes to difficulty progression.

The only levels that reach that level of frustration are the one with the Kayak which is even worse in it's own way and the metro level of London.
EF_Neo1st 12 MAR a las 7:23 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Mr. Alan Wake...:
Publicado originalmente por EF_Neo1st:
Consider it as "intro level", as levels go by it only gets "more intricate and less obvious".
If you want to follow "by this difficulty" I think the London levels are supposed to be last.

I'm the author of the thread. and still stand by my OP ^^ !

Temple Ruins is particularly frustrating when it comes to trial and error. It's also badly placed when it comes to difficulty progression.

The only levels that reach that level of frustration are the one with the Kayak which is even worse in it's own way and the metro level of London.
I never found it to be "that bad" tbh, I dont remember it being bad even on my very first playthrough back in the day .... maybe if someone started with TR 3 but having gone through at least TR 2 and most of TR 1 that level is not much of a problem and more of an amusement park for parkour and exploration.
webcider 12 MAR a las 9:10 a. m. 
Temple Ruins is a awesome level its fun and has a good bit of exploration going on i enjoy it every time i play it.
< >
Mostrando 16-30 de 32 comentarios
Por página: 1530 50

Publicado el: 16 MAR 2024 a las 9:36 a. m.
Mensajes: 32