I just found out that they removed Lara's pinup posters from Sleeping with the fishes first room

[NLFW]

In remastered graphics only

old [i.gyazo.com]
remastered [i.gyazo.com]

according to videos and screenshots [preview.redd.it] , they were there before last patch

[‣Jʌv‣]

JUST REALIZED that as well. RIGHT NOW XD
Why did they do that? omg.... some cry-girl/ cry-boy reported it or what?
LARA CROFT IS D*** SEXY! get over it, whoever reported or cried to get this removed.

[Wast1980]

NexusModsFix[www.nexusmods.com]

[‣Jʌv‣]

Originally posted by Wast1980:

NexusModsFix[www.nexusmods.com]

yeah but the thing is why Aspyr lower themselves so much because of a whiny boy/ girl who who complains about this? I mean, if i were Aspyr i wouldn't listen any of these jealous guys. I repeat it... even if lara croft is a 3D model SHE IS DA** sexy, pretty sure that even more than those guys who complain about this kind of things.

[chakkman]

Don't blame them. Our Western societies are full of whiny sissies who complain about stuff like that.

It's sad, but, they ruin our lives on every corner now.

[Lanzagranadas]

Funny, because according to Toby Gard, who created the character, Lara Croft was not supposed to be a playboy magazine hot girl, that was just Eidos' way of marketing the games. So technically this is actually more in line with how the original creators envisioned the character.

[Saint.Million]

Originally posted by Lanzagranadas:

Funny, because according to Toby Gard, who created the character, Lara Croft was not supposed to be a playboy magazine hot girl, that was just Eidos' way of marketing the games. So technically this is actually more in line with how the original creators envisioned the character.

That's only one perspective on the matter.

Here's another one, courtesy of Jeremy Heath-Smith (Core's boss):

"He (Toby) was citing creative differences and he didn't agree with the marketing, which was all a load of old bollocks."

Other former Core devs have also said Toby being arrogant, and his leaving was nothing to do with the marketing.

And lets not forget what happened to Toby after he left Core... He turned down multiple opportunities to lead other dev teams, and instead decided to create his own... which as we all know flopped hard.

If he really did leave because of the sexualization of Lara then he lost out on millions all so that his new venture could go woke and go broke.

*Slow sarcastic clap*

[Valiento]

He also is a hypocrite he took part in sexualization and added more sexualization in early CD core games….

https://www.thegamer.com/tomb-raider-lara-croft-design-bug-myth-2/

[Saint.Million]

Originally posted by Valiento:

He also is a hypocrite he took part in sexualization and added more sexualization in early CD core games….

Indeed. There is no doubt that he designed Lara with the explicit intention of her being sexy.
As is evidenced from early promotional artwork/models.

He stated himself that he wanted her to be "attractive". Which is just another way of saying sexy without actually saying it.

So yes, he was 100% a hypocrite IF the reason he left was because of her sexualization (which is somewhat doubtful anyway, as I already mentioned above).

[DogMeat]

Originally posted by chakkman:

Don't blame them. Our Western societies are full of whiny sissies who complain about stuff like that.

It's sad, but, they ruin our lives on every corner now.

Its just a poster on the wall... why are you complaining about it?

I bet you hadn't even noticed it unless this thread pointed it out.

[Lanzagranadas]

Originally posted by SaintMillion:

He stated himself that he wanted her to be "attractive". Which is just another way of saying sexy without actually saying it.

Attractiveness and Stylization ≠ Sexualization

Of course he wanted the character to be attractive (like probably 99% of character designers would). Just like Clark Kent and many other stylized male heroes with his muscles and amazingly shaped bodies might be attractive to some people. But you probably won't see Superman/Clark Kent half naked and doing saucy poses in a poster or magazine cover...

As far as the games are concerned, Lara Croft's character was not sexualized (at least in the first four games) That's the kind of stuff Toby Gard said he was against. Lara was just a "heroine" (more like anti-heroine) lone wolf who raided tombs and shot anyone or anything standing in her way. He wasn't a very social person and she didn't use her "woman gifts" to achieve anything as far as I remember, portraying her as a playboy girl was definitely out of character.

[Saint.Million]

Originally posted by Lanzagranadas:

Attractiveness and Stylization ≠ Sexualization

I was expecting someone to make this pathetic argument. Which is why I already mentioned the early promotional artwork/models.
If you bother to look at them you can CLEARLY see his intention was "sexy".

One example (of many):
https://assetsio.gnwcdn.com/20-years-on-the-tomb-raider-story-told-by-the-people-who-were-there-147756186883.jpg?width=1920&height=1920&fit=bounds&quality=80&format=jpg&auto=webp

And if you're not convinced by that then look at the many others....

[Valiento]

https://www.gamegrin.com/articles/a-story-about-lara-crofts-development-history/

Most of the controversies surrounding female protagonists were the fact that they were being invented by male developers. And of course, we know how the story continues there, with over-sexualisation of them that made seemingly impossible examples for younger girls. Lara Croft was one such controversy because of her particularly triangular honkers. But that’s for later.

In the early development stages of Tomb Raider, the lead graphic artist, Toby Gard, wanted a male protagonist for the game. He suspiciously envisioned a whip and a hat. It was then that Core Design co-founder Jeremy Smith mentioned the similarity to Indiana Jones, and demanded more originality. Toby Gard had gone through five different designs for our beloved Lara before he decided that a female character might work better.

Part of the inspiration came from the fact that he noticed that in Virtua Fighter players tended to select one of two female characters available in almost every match. This seemed to inspire within him a desire to counter what was common of female characters, with Toby Gard mentioning that he disliked the over-sexualisation and overall stereotypical female representation in gaming.

Jeremy Smith wasn’t fond of the idea at first, noting that there were very few games featuring female protagonists. Eventually, however, he came around, giving Toby Gard freedom to pursue the idea.

Playing around with several ideas—including, but not limited to, a Nazi militant sort of design—Toby Gard drew inspiration from several very different sources—including a pop star named Neneh Cherry and a comic book character named Tank Girl—before he found what he wanted the protagonist of the game to be: a braided (yes, the braid was important) South American woman named Laura Cruz. I will add that I—as a Latina myself—would have absolutely adored for her to continue down this road.

Then they reference the big fkn lie…

It is reported that while adjusting the character model, Toby Gard accidentally gave Lara tig ol’ bitties, increasing their dimensions by an approximate 150%. It was then that the rest of the creative team decided to keep it the way it was, completely shattering Toby Gard’s original plan to stop the over-sexualisation. It was due to this that Toby Gard left Core Design when the game entered its beta phase of development, voicing his frustration at the lack of freedom and control given to him over the ideas he developed - namely, Lara Croft.

Which has been debunked….

https://www.thegamer.com/tomb-raider-lara-croft-design-bug-myth-2/

Like many urban legends, the story of the Lara Croft bug has shifted slightly over the years. In some versions, it’s a slip of the mouse that sees her model go from “slightly adjusted” to “overly inflated”. In others, it’s a typo, a misplaced digit changing a value increase from 50% to 150%. Sometimes a cynically sleazy executive passes by and gives ‘the new version’ a thumbs up, and other times it’s the enthusiastic reaction from colleagues working nearby.

Unlike many urban legends, its source can be neatly tracked down. Toby Gard, Lara’s original concept artist and animator, did make a joke about the idea. In a 1997 interview with culture and fashion magazine The Face, he was audaciously asked about Lara’s “unfeasibly large knockers”. (The ‘90s!) Gard’s glib reply was the foundation for the ‘accident’ story as it’s told today. “Slip of the mouse. I wanted to expand them fifty percent and then - whoops, one-hundred and fifty percent. Darn.”

24 years after this interview, I reached out to Gard about the origin of Lara’s ‘accidental’ silhouette. “It was of course a joke,” Gard explains. “Indeed all the answers from that interview, which was one of my first, were entirely flippant. I tried to make them all so ludicrous that no one would believe them. I mean, there are undo functions right? Even at the time I thought it outrageous that an interviewer would be asking questions about boobs and didn’t think it dignified a proper answer. But of course I didn’t know at the time that sarcasm doesn’t read on a page. And so that and other insane statements from that interview became enduring myths.”

The myth as we know it started as a game of telephone (one that even I’ve taken part in, though I tried to appropriately contextualise it as myth). Some details, such as Gard’s original quote, were reported or paraphrased at the time, at which point those secondary sources became a starting point for the next teller, and so on. When things don’t add up, or details become fuzzy, new sources add new information. As Gard points out, it should be pretty obvious that there’s an undo button, so the second party who issues approval immediately became part of the story to fill in that logic hole. A few years later, yet another joke contributed a brand new set of quotes to the myth, as well as the ‘coding error’ version of events.

On April 1 2000, GameSpot published an article titled, Lara Croft’s Breasts “An Awful Mistake”. Note the date: it’s an April Fool. This piece is either the top result or cited in the top results for searches about the ‘error’, depending on your phrasing. Meanwhile, Gard’s original interview is in an out-of-print issue of a magazine, and archived on a fansite that is no longer live.

The article cites “CORE Design programmer” Nigel West as disowning the adventurer's provocative design. “West said that a simple miscalculation in one of the thousands of lines of code that went into the Tomb Raider series of games resulted in the Lara as she is known today. As manufacturing and marketing plans drawn up by Eidos had already been placed in motion, to go back and rectify the programming slip-up would have meant scrapping the launch.”

It should be made clear that Nigel West does not exist – at least, not this Nigel West. Of the Tomb Raider games released before 2000, he appears in none of the credits. While it isn’t unheard of for creators to be written out of the credits of games where they leave mid-production, the creation of the original Tomb Raider has a well-documented history. The first Tomb Raider game was developed by a very small team, and West definitely wasn’t part of it. Unlike Gard’s joke being misconstrued, these quotes are entirely fictitious.

The piece is satirical, poking fun at both overly-invested fans and the conservative backlash against Lara’s appearance. ‘West’ is a mouthpiece who vocally hopes that Lara’s appearance wouldn’t “detrimentally affect” consumer’s buying choices (when we know Tomb Raider was marketed around, and had substantial buy-in from consumers because of, Lara’s sexualised appearance). He also disavows any intentional part of the design because he is himself a father of daughters, in a tidy two-for-one in bad conservative arguments of ‘think of the children’ and ‘I respect women, because I myself parent some’. To top off the obvious joke, the piece closes with a time-limited offer to trade in your copies of Tomb Raider, for one “where Lara’s chest is said to be noticeably flatter, but neither ‘too large or too small.’"

The GameSpot article doesn’t only contribute to the myth, it inadvertently explains why it’s still so prevalent today. Despite being written in 2000, the piece reflects some of the positions about Lara’s design that are still talked about decades after her creation - even down to predicting the absurd controversy around the ‘too small’ 2013 reboot. She’s a divisive and heavily discussed character, but her silhouette is undeniably iconic. To this day, she still holds the Guinness World Record for “most recognisable female character in a video game”. It’s hard to believe that if Gard had joked about something less sensationalised, the story would have endured for so long.

In context, both Gard’s comments and the GameSpot article are obvious jokes. Devoid of context, however, details and quotes can be repeated to fit a mythology that suits the teller. Even when parts don’t add up, people like to believe these quirks, especially when they’re about something provocative or controversial. There’s a small truth at the core of the myth, a real quote once spoken, but the rest is a collective act of poor attribution and mythmaking. Now we’ve unravelled this mystery to its core, perhaps it’s time we put this particular Tomb Raider Legend to rest.

[METAL]

Originally posted by chakkman:

Don't blame them. Our Western societies are full of whiny sissies who complain about stuff like that.

It's sad, but, they ruin our lives on every corner now.

They sure do. No wonder stellar blade is upsetting these idiots. Making up crap that even Korea gave them the finger in a polite way.
And outlaw getting roasted for not only the price but butchering a gorgeous models face.

[ShinjiTao]

Originally posted by DogMeat:

Its just a poster on the wall... why are you complaining about it?

If it's "just a poster on the wall", then why removing it in the first place? This works the other way around too. And I highly question the intention. Why is it THAT needed? Why this allergy to attractive women?

I have no idea why having FICTIONAL sexy characters is supposed to be so evil.

Originally posted by DogMeat:

I bet you hadn't even noticed it unless this thread pointed it out.

Invalid argument. It's about principle. The fact that I might not know about the respective cut content in the first place doesnt justifiy the censorship.

[DogMeat]

Originally posted by MLG-Renegade:

Originally posted by DogMeat:

Its just a poster on the wall... why are you complaining about it?

If it's "just a poster on the wall", then why removing it in the first place? This works the other way around too. And I highly question the intention. Why is it THAT needed? Why this allergy to attractive women?

I have no idea why having FICTIONAL sexy characters is supposed to be so evil.

Originally posted by DogMeat:

I bet you hadn't even noticed it unless this thread pointed it out.

Invalid argument. It's about principle. The fact that I might not know about the respective cut content in the first place doesnt justifiy the censorship.

Clarification:

100% agree with you.

The guy I'm responding to mocked me and I wouldn't be surprised if he reported me to moderators for being angry at the disclaimer.

And look how now he's suddenly willing to speak out about it when its more than just a disclaimer

The people who don't like the propaganda popping up in our entertainment FAR OUTWEIGHS the people they're pandering to with it.

The problem is a worrying majority of those people are like the guy I was responding to... they'll run cover for these propagandists if its little things... not understanding that EFFECTIVE propaganda IS the little stuff that got us into this position in the first place. Frogs in a pot.