Aren't people overreacting? [SOLVED]

[OyajiBR☕]

edit: patch 3 will restore the posters. I never liked removal of content, I always use mods . The removal of posters did bother me, I just didn't think it slightly comparable to the awful remasters in Diablo 2, WarCraft 3 and GTA Trilogy. Thankfully it'll be solved soon.

Before you shoot me, are you sure Pierre's jacket and the posters are worth that anger? Maybe you're watching angry youtubers who do polemics for views too much.

TR5 Chronicles (2000, Core Design) changed Pierre's jacket from nude woman to eagle. TR123 Remaster (2024, Aspyr) brought back the sexy woman, just in a tiny bikini to avoid rating issues. How is Aspyr censoring? They're doing what Core didn't 24 years ago. The topless Lara poster in TR3LA was probably for rating issues too.

You seem to be forgetting that TR123 Remastered has classic Lara with unaltered face, body and outfits; 25+ years old block-based games looking more realistic without affecting the original art; even a modern control (I like it) to encourage young players; etc, all for a very reasonable price, unlike the full priced glitch mess GTA Trilogy. Aspyr understands Tomb Raider and they should be the ones developing the next game, not - God help us - Crystal. In any case, just use mods, problem solved.

[ParabolaWaVe]

If this was an original game, then sure, Aspyr could include and remove the assets they want. But the people angry about it feel cheated, because they paid for an "unaltered" set of classic games, not for censored editions with mature rating. I would have paid for the original Windows release instead, if only I knew they were going to cut stuff from these versions (and its possible we aren't done with content removal yet).

[Valiento]

If I buy a book or movie I buying it to be unaltered or uncensored if it’s been abridged, bowdlerized, or censored I really don’t want it… I want to read or watch unaltered or unabridged versions….

There is a reason even stuff like Star Wars original releases are more popular than the myriad special edition versions…

And the game already has had rating of M in which such posters are ok. And neither of posters show anything (Infact one of the poses is in the camera mode iirc) so probably fit with a teen rating… the other doesn’t show anything either though she is in obviously nude but that only got a teen rating back in the day too… cause it doesn’t show anything…

[shonasof]

Originally posted by ParabolaWaVe:

If this was an original game, then sure, Aspyr could include and remove the assets they want. But the people angry about it feel cheated, because they paid for an "unaltered" set of classic games, not for censored editions with mature rating. I would have paid for the original Windows release instead, if only I knew they were going to cut stuff from these versions (and its possible we aren't done with content removal yet).

if you want "unaltered" then why are you playing in modern graphics mode at all? Switch back to classic and boom, there are the posters you want so much.

[ParabolaWaVe]

Star Wars has a very infamous modification with Han "not shooting first". Its just a little scene, but it adds to the character.

Back to the remaster, nowhere did Aspyr stated that they can't change the 3D model of Lara. Nothing legal prevents them. If they already changed the posters, and the jacket, they can perfectly alter Lara herself. Because why not? They are already censoring to remove over-sexualization. They can do it again just fine.

[Valiento]

Classic mode in remaster is actually inferior to the actual original releases (which had different versions with varying bells and whistles)…. It’s missing sounds, graphics (no texture smoothing), special effects (no reflective/transparent surfaces like PSX version), etc…

[shonasof]

Originally posted by ParabolaWaVe:

They are already censoring to remove over-sexualization.

And there's that same point over and over. Everyone assumes censorship with no proof other than what they want to see so they can rage in the forums.

My best guess for what happened is that one of the other fixes screwed up the placement of some unintended textures, and the posters are now behind the wall texture. I wonder if a bunch more examples could be found throughout the game if someone were to comb through the whole game and not just the pervy pictures they were hoping to see.

Glitches happen a lot more than evil corporate conspiracies that make no sense.

But if it _is_ censorship? Then screw them. But holy crap have something solid to base your rage on other than wild guesses from biased opinions.

[Plomb Rouge]

Something that makes it way worse is that they were present originally and were removed after 2 patches. And they refer to "old" promo art of Lara which is a really nice touch especially if you saw this art back then.
Pierre's jacket has been censored but it wasn't nearly as a big deal for those 2 reasons and I didn't see people complain about it much.
Also worth to mention if they can change the product like this it's not excluded they make more changes people will hate within the next patches which is potentially worrying.

[Valiento]

Originally posted by Plomb Rouge:

Something that makes it way worse is that they were present originally and were removed after 2 patches. And they refer to "old" promo art of Lara which is a really nice touch especially if you saw this art back then.
Pierre's jacket has been censored but it wasn't nearly as a big deal for those 2 reasons and I didn't see people complain about it much.
Also worth to mention if they can change the product like this it's not excluded they make more changes people will hate within the next patches which is potentially worrying.

It’s a classic Easter egg to official promos/marketing in regular all audience gaming magazines…. Not porn magazines….

https://www.thumbsticks.com/tomb-raider-brief-history-lara-croft-reboot/

The infamous official playboy spread was very different image….

https://joelhopkinsopinions.wordpress.com/lara-croft/

https://joelhopkinsopinions.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/lara-1999.jpg

“ Controversially, 1999 was the year in which Lara Croft was shown naked in Playboy Magazine as a part of the marketing campaign for the new game”

[ParabolaWaVe]

Originally posted by shonasof:

Originally posted by ParabolaWaVe:

They are already censoring to remove over-sexualization.

And there's that same point over and over. Everyone assumes censorship with no proof other than what they want to see so they can rage in the forums.

My best guess for what happened is that one of the other fixes screwed up the placement of some unintended textures, and the posters are now behind the wall texture. I wonder if a bunch more examples could be found throughout the game if someone were to comb through the whole game and not just the pervy pictures they were hoping to see.

Glitches happen a lot more than evil corporate conspiracies that make no sense.

But if it _is_ censorship? Then screw them. But holy crap have something solid to base your rage on other than wild guesses from biased opinions.

Part of the idea of censorship, is you not knowing that something is being censored. Lately there have been lots of incidents of this type, involving the removal or modification of graphics in old games, and very often, if not always, this removal involves the female body. Sometimes the censorship is preemptive, like in recent asian games, were the female outfits are much less exposed for a western audience - even in those cases where the original was nothing above the exposure you see in the street.

If we needed that degree of hard evidence fighting crime, there would never be a single person in jail. Sometimes circumstantial evidence and context are enough to figure out what is happening, and why people are doing what they're doing. Statistics, repetition. Specially when you see a clear trend in the samples.

[OyajiBR☕]

I haven't checked the submarine since patch 2, but I would just put box pictures of TR1, 2 and 3 as posters. I saw a custom game from TR Level Editor doing that and it was so cool. And no, I'm no prude, I play and read hentai (some very good suspenses, I must say) often. I'm just being practical here, box pictures would be cooler easter eggs.

[Valiento]

Even in the official comics…. That were teen rated…

https://archive.org/details/TombRaiderMagazine02

And official strategy guides!

https://www.retromags.com/files/file/5369-lara-croft-paper-doll/

[Valiento]

https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/y9bt4a/1998_ign_ad_funny_way_to_learn_that_ign_stands/

Hah when IGN used to make these kind of ads rather than virtue signaling.

[Valiento]

All the official TR2 promo/ad art:

https://raidingtheglobe.com/gallery/core-design/tomb-raider-2/renders

https://raidingtheglobe.com/gallery/core-design/tomb-raider-2/wallpapers

All official TR3 promo/ad art:

https://raidingtheglobe.com/gallery/core-design/tomb-raider-3/renders

https://raidingtheglobe.com/gallery/core-design/tomb-raider-3/wallpapers

[Soldner42]

you paid for a Full Game. You received the Full Game.

Devs decide later on its time to remove Content.


What if, you bought a Beer in a Bar, you receive your Beer, but suddenly the Barkeeper takes away your Beer and he keeps all your Money, but hey, you still have to Bottle right? So its okay.

Thats how People feel.
Betrayed.

Thats a Scummy move from the Devs, and the next Question opens up immediately:
Whats next?
How far will this go?

Just like the Oblivion Horse Armor, this might just be the beginning.

No Ground for Censorship.
I hope People sue the living ♥♥♥♥ out of Aspyr and Crystal Dynamics, for thievery and false advertisement.

[ParabolaWaVe]

One could argue if the posters were in good taste or not. Maybe I didn't like them myself back at the time. But at this point, after so long, they're part of the games, and they're beyond pro or against arguments. They're electronic history. In my opinion they should be part of this remaster. Besides... if there's no problem with devs modifying just a little bit of content... then, why not all of it? They could insert a "modern Lara" 3D model, for instance. And you'd get more consistency with the new games, so its not like there wouldn't be any advantages from this.

In my opinion, they should have re-released these games unaltered, or not at all. Because if they change little things here and there, there's no point in the remaster anymore. You arrive at a middle ground which satisfies nobody... not the purists, and not the people preferring a modern take either.