No challenge without the save crystals...

[max]

Why are save crystals missing, unlike the consoles versions ?

I cannot play on PC versions, they are way too easy with that quick save abomination system

Such a lazy port :(

I pass for now.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

It’s similar that you self impose the challenge if a level only gave you 3 saves that’s all you use pretty simple. It’s not like it was looked fondly since they were removed from 2 and 3.

The experience is not nearlly the same, even more considering if I foorget where the save crystal is it is up to me to decide when and where or before what.
Yes it is looked fondly and it returned at TR 3 (It was just removed at 2) and for a reason, it kills all the tension and purpose of the saves trivializing eeverything, the experience is not nearly the same.
If they wanted they couyld had allowed a "difficulty settings menu" with:
EASY: save everywhere
Normal: collect save crystals to be able to save anywhere but "just the amoun t of save crystalls you collected"
Hard: save points only at save crystals, but you sselect when you want to save (what mean you can do harder challenges before saving, to avoid having to do these again in case you miss a jump or just die)
Very Hard: 1 save at the start of each level and 1 automatic checkpoint at the middle of the level - what is basically what I am doing but arbitrarily and "when I think I need" to before more dangerous sections or after doing too much at the level .. or "if I think there is some missable secret if I dont perform something in the right order".

Don't bother explaining that to him, he is a troll following me, that's the sole reason why this thread which was sunken already was brought back to the surface again.
I tried to argue with him on another game with a similiar problem, he was just repeating the same question over and over again, as he either couldn't process what i'm saying or simply wants to annoy out of boredom.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

The experience is not nearlly the same, even more considering if I foorget where the save crystal is it is up to me to decide when and where or before what.
Yes it is looked fondly and it returned at TR 3 (It was just removed at 2) and for a reason, it kills all the tension and purpose of the saves trivializing eeverything, the experience is not nearly the same.
If they wanted they couyld had allowed a "difficulty settings menu" with:
EASY: save everywhere
Normal: collect save crystals to be able to save anywhere but "just the amoun t of save crystalls you collected"
Hard: save points only at save crystals, but you sselect when you want to save (what mean you can do harder challenges before saving, to avoid having to do these again in case you miss a jump or just die)
Very Hard: 1 save at the start of each level and 1 automatic checkpoint at the middle of the level - what is basically what I am doing but arbitrarily and "when I think I need" to before more dangerous sections or after doing too much at the level .. or "if I think there is some missable secret if I dont perform something in the right order".

Don't bother explaining that to him, he is a troll following me, that's the sole reason why this thread which was sunken already was brought back to the surface again.
I tried to argue with him on another game with a similiar problem, he was just repeating the same question over and over again, as he either couldn't process what i'm saying or simply wants to annoy out of boredom.

I will take the later, no one can be so rock solid to not process the information.

[Lanzagranadas]

Do people who were like "no save crystals = no buy" know that Save crystals are actually in the game? They're in TR1 & 3 NG+, with other difficulty additions to make the games harder.

People who played NG+ (not me, I'm not that far yet) have already confirmed that it's harder than the originals. Wanted a challenge? there it is. Now pretty sure that won't stop certain players from complaining "BUT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AN OPTION FROM THE START. NO BUY"

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Lanzagranadas:

Do people who were like "no save crystals = no buy" know that Save crystals are actually in the game? They're in TR1 & 3 NG+, with other difficulty additions to make the games harder.

People who played NG+ (not me, I'm not that far yet) have already confirmed that it's harder than the originals. Wanted a challenge? there it is. Now pretty sure that won't stop certain players from complaining "BUT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AN OPTION FROM THE START. NO BUY"

It should be an option from the start, but I still pre-purchased and held my pre-purchase anyway.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by Lanzagranadas:

Do people who were like "no save crystals = no buy" know that Save crystals are actually in the game? They're in TR1 & 3 NG+, with other difficulty additions to make the games harder.

People who played NG+ (not me, I'm not that far yet) have already confirmed that it's harder than the originals. Wanted a challenge? there it is. Now pretty sure that won't stop certain players from complaining "BUT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AN OPTION FROM THE START. NO BUY"

It's not a total dealbreaker but it significantly lowers the experience. I'm glad they they are on New Game+ (could've implemented new ones for TR2 as well if their at it) but in exchange the game alters significantly in other aspects as well. I respect the challenge they're trying to make, but it's unfortunate that the original experience (which are only on the console versions) isn't conserved as well in these Remastered for the fans. An option at the start like "original console(save crystals)" and "original pc (save everywhere)" would be cool. Especially they could make it so that the default setting on consoles is with crystals and the default setting on pc is without them, just to make another funny innuendo.

[OyajiBR☕]

Well, there is an achievement to save 80 times (the number of crystals in console version) or less.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by OyajiBR☕:

Well, there is an achievement to save 80 times (the number of crystals in console version) or less.

Which I appreciate as well, though it's not restricted to where you save, so it's still not the same, you also need to remember where the original places are if you wanna replicate that or if you never played the game, you can't know without spoiling yourself.
It would be easier for Tomb Raider 3 with its original ruleset (not sure if there is an achievement as well for that)
But even then, you could basically save more in a level then you actually find crystals. (as long it evens out later on) So having a mode would be the better solution. There is a difference if you need to find the crystals first or if you just have the already all at your disposal immediately.

[kakiss4]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by kakiss4:

Not being able to save at any given point is just a limitation of consoles and never was a thing in 90s PC Gaming.

Btw, in Tomb Raider 2 on the PSX you are able to save any time, just like the PC Version.

No it is not.
At TR 2 you could save anywhere, at TR 3 you could not. It was by design not by console limitations.

It is a Limitation by Consoles, be it because they didn't knew the Hardware or because they run out of Memory.
They seemingly did get it working in TR2, so not having it in the third could also just be because of the rental Market in the US, as they wanted Games to be harder, so People have to rent it longer.
But as there is also more going on, very possible that it is a Limitation ;)
There aren't many Consoles Games of its Era allowing to save everywhere, meanwhile it it was more or less a Standard on Computers.

Take a Look at other PC Games ported to Consoles, be it Doom, Comand and Conquer, Starcraft.
PC Ports always had Compromises.

The People doing the Games wanted others to have Fun, there is no Fun on repeating a whole Section because a cheap Death somewhere.
Not being able to save is not respecting the Players Time.

But what do you do with TR2 than?
Do you skip it, because you can't prove yourself to, well, yourself?
As no one is caring, if someone saves once, twice or onehoundred Times.

When you die some day, no one will say:" One of the greatest Persons that ever walked the Planed, a Warrior without match, playing Tomb Raider without saving at any Place.".

Saving anywhere you want doesn't make a Person better or worse, as everyone has its own Preferences in Life.

As many said, no one is forcing you or other to save, so just don't use a optional Feature
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

It’s similar that you self impose the challenge if a level only gave you 3 saves that’s all you use pretty simple. It’s not like it was looked fondly since they were removed from 2 and 3.

The experience is not nearlly the same, even more considering if I foorget where the save crystal is it is up to me to decide when and where or before what.
Yes it is looked fondly and it returned at TR 3 (It was just removed at 2) and for a reason, it kills all the tension and purpose of the saves trivializing eeverything, the experience is not nearly the same.
If they wanted they couyld had allowed a "difficulty settings menu" with:
EASY: save everywhere
Normal: collect save crystals to be able to save anywhere but "just the amoun t of save crystalls you collected"
Hard: save points only at save crystals, but you sselect when you want to save (what mean you can do harder challenges before saving, to avoid having to do these again in case you miss a jump or just die)
Very Hard: 1 save at the start of each level and 1 automatic checkpoint at the middle of the level - what is basically what I am doing but arbitrarily and "when I think I need" to before more dangerous sections or after doing too much at the level .. or "if I think there is some missable secret if I dont perform something in the right order".

Not against options, but again you can set the limit or even don’t save to retain that tension why do you need the game to force you just do it yourself. To repeat it was only in this game crystals were used. Clearly it was founded as it was removed in later entries.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by kakiss4:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

No it is not.
At TR 2 you could save anywhere, at TR 3 you could not. It was by design not by console limitations.

It is a Limitation by Consoles, be it because they didn't knew the Hardware or because they run out of Memory.
They seemingly did get it working in TR2, so not having it in the third could also just be because of the rental Market in the US, as they wanted Games to be harder, so People have to rent it longer.
But as there is also more going on, very possible that it is a Limitation ;)
There aren't many Consoles Games of its Era allowing to save everywhere, meanwhile it it was more or less a Standard on Computers.

Take a Look at other PC Games ported to Consoles, be it Doom, Comand and Conquer, Starcraft.
PC Ports always had Compromises.

The People doing the Games wanted others to have Fun, there is no Fun on repeating a whole Section because a cheap Death somewhere.
Not being able to save is not respecting the Players Time.

But what do you do with TR2 than?
Do you skip it, because you can't prove yourself to, well, yourself?
As no one is caring, if someone saves once, twice or onehoundred Times.

When you die some day, no one will say:" One of the greatest Persons that ever walked the Planed, a Warrior without match, playing Tomb Raider without saving at any Place.".

Saving anywhere you want doesn't make a Person better or worse, as everyone has its own Preferences in Life.

As many said, no one is forcing you or other to save, so just don't use a optional Feature
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think it is you "again" saying it is limitation of consoles, so care to explain why Tomb Raider 2 at PS1 had saves everywhere while Tomb Raider 1 did not?
It was design choice and the PC ports are just "poor ports" for not having it (+ extra bugs that require a lot of mods to fix).
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Bankai9212]

Considering tomb raider was a new ip at the time. They didn’t know how some aspects would be received(not sure if pc version came after). Plus better understanding of said hardware.

[Lanzagranadas]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

It should be an option from the start, but I still pre-purchased and held my pre-purchase anyway.

Well, it wasn't an option at all in the original PC versions. So that still makes this the superior version in that regard.

Now for players who believe that's still bad because it's not exactly as it worked in the originals... well, if that's the case then just boot a PS1 or Saturn emulator, can't get closer to the originals than that.

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

It's not a total dealbreaker but it significantly lowers the experience. I'm glad they they are on New Game+ (could've implemented new ones for TR2 as well if their at it) but in exchange the game alters significantly in other aspects as well.

But TR2 never had crystals, so it wouldn't be like the original no matter what they do. TR2 NG+ makes things harder in its own way. Don't know if they did a good job with it, I'll find out when I get there.

[OpossumForce.Luke]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by kakiss4:

It is a Limitation by Consoles, be it because they didn't knew the Hardware or because they run out of Memory.
They seemingly did get it working in TR2, so not having it in the third could also just be because of the rental Market in the US, as they wanted Games to be harder, so People have to rent it longer.
But as there is also more going on, very possible that it is a Limitation ;)
There aren't many Consoles Games of its Era allowing to save everywhere, meanwhile it it was more or less a Standard on Computers.

Take a Look at other PC Games ported to Consoles, be it Doom, Comand and Conquer, Starcraft.
PC Ports always had Compromises.

The People doing the Games wanted others to have Fun, there is no Fun on repeating a whole Section because a cheap Death somewhere.
Not being able to save is not respecting the Players Time.

But what do you do with TR2 than?
Do you skip it, because you can't prove yourself to, well, yourself?
As no one is caring, if someone saves once, twice or onehoundred Times.

When you die some day, no one will say:" One of the greatest Persons that ever walked the Planed, a Warrior without match, playing Tomb Raider without saving at any Place.".

Saving anywhere you want doesn't make a Person better or worse, as everyone has its own Preferences in Life.

As many said, no one is forcing you or other to save, so just don't use a optional Feature
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think it is you "again" saying it is limitation of consoles, so care to explain why Tomb Raider 2 at PS1 had saves everywhere while Tomb Raider 1 did not?
It was design choice and the PC ports are just "poor ports" for not having it (+ extra bugs that require a lot of mods to fix).
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was with you until the last sentence. The game was primarily developed for DOS at Core, and the console versions were ports. For example the the PlayStation version was done by a 3rd party team:
https://web.archive.org/web/19970415115308/http://www.nlights.demon.co.uk/work.html

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by OpossumForce.Luke:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

I think it is you "again" saying it is limitation of consoles, so care to explain why Tomb Raider 2 at PS1 had saves everywhere while Tomb Raider 1 did not?
It was design choice and the PC ports are just "poor ports" for not having it (+ extra bugs that require a lot of mods to fix).
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was with you until the last sentence. The game was primarily developed for DOS at Core, and the console versions were ports. For example the the PlayStation version was done by a 3rd party team:
https://web.archive.org/web/19970415115308/http://www.nlights.demon.co.uk/work.html

All games were originally developed at some computer, it was originally released at PS1 (and the way saves work are by design, same as saves at FF VII, Resident Evil games and other games with "save locations" while other games did not and allowed saves anywhere (while some other games auto-saved any time you die or any time you close the game, like Diablo) so absolutely not being a "console limitation" as kakiss4 wrongly implied.

So in that sense "every PS1 and console game is primarily a DOS game at the time" by that logic.

[Bankai9212]

Being developed sure, but the os and everything else is different. Main reason for save location could be design, hardware or both. Kinda a pointless thing to bring up at this point.