Unified controls: a modern tank-controls system

[xavier]

While at first I thought, like many of us, that the Tank Controls are the best way to play, I'm starting to reluctantly admit that, in some specific cases, they are clumsy at best, and even suicidal (like for example during the puzzles in which you need to run from a switch to another before the descending floor crushes you, you could use a way to rotate quicker to the direction you want). Of course since both controls systems are available, we could argue that I just have to toggle from Tank to Modern depending on the situation, but I don't want to browse into my options settings every time. I consider that my options are meant to be set up once and for all, and that continuously changing them should not be a part of the gameplay mechanics.

So I was thinking of a way to keep the best of both worlds: a system based on Tank Controls, but with a remapping that involves the mouse so that we can play with the camera, and most important with a quick button to toggle from Lara-relative controls to Camera-relative controls.

Something like this:

WASD: directions
Q: walk
E: dash
SPACE: draw weapons
ALT: roll
CTRL: flare
MAJ: look
MOUSE 1: jump
MOUSE 2: action
MOUSE 3: switch direction system

To go further, we could make that camera-based controls are set to default when swimming, and Lara-based ones are default on land (and the only option in vehicles).

I know that it would involve some more dev, it's more like a wish-list for a new patch or a new mod, so it sounds a bit pointless to discuss it here, but I'm curious, what would you think of it? Would this be practical?


PS. I also add this to my wish-list:
- to cherry-pick from the Modern Controls the feature to grab a ledge in last minute when running off the ledge. It's a cool move, it's quicker and more convenient to climb down. So why keep it exclusive to the Modern Controls....?
- to have the DASH button make Lara swim faster when she's on the surface of the water (with a crawling move for example).

[Kenshiro3]

MINOR Modifications:

SPACE = Jump (Space is ALWAYS jump)

MOUSE 0 (Left Click) = Action (Interact/Shoot) (Mouse 1 Is Middle Button/Wheel Press)

Action & Fire are one/the same command, So you can't separate them. its just that said command is context sensitive. Action interacts with/fires guns when they are drawn. It interacts with environment when they are not. Basically you either interact with your weapons or environment. This is the reason you cannot interact with environment and have them drawn at the same time.

MOUSE 1 (Wheel Press): Don't use (unreliable as It is often misread as a wheel up/down. Also wheel buttons tend ton be fragile. So holding damages them)

MOUSE 2 (Right Click)= Walk/Grab (Walking is done actively in the classic series, and doubles as Grab button)(Much more important than interact which can't be separated from fire)

E = Look

Q = Roll/180 Orientation In Air (easier to reach than Alt & Works like Roll Midair to change which way you face)

MAJ/CAPS; Draw/Holster Weapons
(Won't work for Look as it is a toggle key & Look must be actively held to function. Doing So with Caps/MAJ creates a LOAD of issues with computer commands/functions. Hence it not being used for "hold" commands in ANYTHING)

SHIFT: Lock Orientation/Strafe without firing guns

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by xavier:

While at first I thought, like many of us, that the Tank Controls are the best way to play, I'm starting to reluctantly admit that, in some specific cases, they are clumsy at best, and even suicidal (like for example during the puzzles in which you need to run from a switch to another before the descending floor crushes you, you could use a way to rotate quicker to the direction you want).

It is not suicidal because there is no move you need to do in tank controls that only gets you killed or that is so hard to perform player is better giving up. Dealling with it is puzzle-like and more often than not there are more than 1 solution (1 way) to deal with the situation, flawlessly and safe, all you need to do is know what happen and prepare, no need to rotate quicker, rotate a bit earlier, tumble then turn around, jump earlier, turn a bit earlier, etc, but it is always possible.
Modern controls are only of advantage at combat but I can see why people dont like tomb raider 2 wreck of the maria doria, combat at closed spaces may still get you killed regardless and some traps also may get you killed if you run around aimlessly (aside from it having some backtracking and the "level setting of a sunken ship upside down"). If you get around and enemy and walk around said enemy with tank controls you also rarely get hit, modern controls only allows it to be faster but that is about it, everything else tank controls is better and work flawlessly given one got used to it in the first few levels or at the trainkng at the mansion.

[xavier]

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

Action & Fire are one/the same command, So you can't separate them.

I know, I didn't map a Fire button. Just the classic Draw Weapon.

I agree with your other points. And I suppose it means the whole concept of switching between the two modes in less than a second would not be absurd....?

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by xavier:

Originally posted by Kenshiro3:

Action & Fire are one/the same command, So you can't separate them.

I know, I didn't map a Fire button. Just the classic Draw Weapon.

I agree with your other points. And I suppose it means the whole concept of switching between the two modes in less than a second would not be absurd....?

Isnt there a button you keep pressed so lara can perform movement in tank control style?

[xavier]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

It is not suicidal because there is no move you need to do in tank controls that only gets you killed or that is so hard to perform player is better giving up. Dealling with it is puzzle-like and more often than not there are more than 1 solution (1 way) to deal with the situation, flawlessly and safe, all you need to do is know what happen and prepare, no need to rotate quicker, rotate a bit earlier, tumble then turn around, jump earlier, turn a bit earlier, etc, but it is always possible.

I don't deny that it's possible. After all, we managed to complete the games a lot of times before the remastered versions, so obviously it's doable. But in some situation it is such a relief to be able to rotate just like you want.

To be more specific, the moment where I feel Lara is too robotic to be efficient is when there is multiple switches on the same wall. If they are two tiles away, it's easy, once you face the first, you press action, then side-jump to land just in front of the second one, and press action again. But if they are three tiles away (or only one, as long as it's an odd number), then you will have to face the first one, then slowly rotate before you can start running, then run alongside the wall, then full stop in front of the second, then rotate to face the switch. It feels more like a flaw than a challenge, in my opinion. You're not fighting against the room and the puzzle, you fighting against Lara's inability to move like a regular human being. With modern controls you just control your angle with a greater precision and speed, so you can do it very straightforward.

I totally agree that the tank controls are way better at doing the majority of the game when you master them, that's why I don't want to go full Modern, and I'm trying to imagine an hybrid solution, a quick-switch from Tank to Modern when it's more convenient. Even if it's just for one second, to quickly change the direction you're running to, then you switch back to Tank.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by xavier:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

It is not suicidal because there is no move you need to do in tank controls that only gets you killed or that is so hard to perform player is better giving up. Dealling with it is puzzle-like and more often than not there are more than 1 solution (1 way) to deal with the situation, flawlessly and safe, all you need to do is know what happen and prepare, no need to rotate quicker, rotate a bit earlier, tumble then turn around, jump earlier, turn a bit earlier, etc, but it is always possible.

I don't deny that it's possible. After all, we managed to complete the games a lot of times before the remastered versions, so obviously it's doable. But in some situation it is such a relief to be able to rotate just like you want.

To be more specific, the moment where I feel Lara is too robotic to be efficient is when there is multiple switches on the same wall. If they are two tiles away, it's easy, once you face the first, you press action, then side-jump to land just in front of the second one, and press action again. But if they are three tiles away (or only one, as long as it's an odd number), then you will have to face the first one, then slowly rotate before you can start running, then run alongside the wall, then full stop in front of the second, then rotate to face the switch. It feels more like a flaw than a challenge, in my opinion. You're not fighting against the room and the puzzle, you fighting against Lara's inability to move like a regular human being. With modern controls you just control your angle with a greater precision and speed, so you can do it very straightforward.

I totally agree that the tank controls are way better at doing the majority of the game when you master them, that's why I don't want to go full Modern, and I'm trying to imagine an hybrid solution, a quick-switch from Tank to Modern when it's more convenient. Even if it's just for one second, to quickly change the direction you're running to, then you switch back to Tank.

If they are 3 tiles away, tumble and circle to the next switch/keyhole/lever/whatever.
Simple and not robotic (also fast)

[xavier]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Isnt there a button you keep pressed so lara can perform movement in tank control style?

I think that in modern controls, there is a combo of buttons if you want to step backyard, and also the side-jumps and back-jump work like in tank controls if you draw your weapons.
But what interested me is the other way around: borrowing some modern behaviors when I'm in tank.

[xavier]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

If they are 3 tiles away, tumble and circle to the next switch/keyhole/lever/whatever.
Simple and not robotic (also fast)

Yes, again I know there's this way to do it, but it's really not as simple as just instantly running straight in the good direction then instantly rotating to face the wall. As I said, I'm ok with some difficulty and challenges, but not when it's due to a lack of possibility to do very basic moves.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by xavier:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

If they are 3 tiles away, tumble and circle to the next switch/keyhole/lever/whatever.
Simple and not robotic (also fast)

Yes, again I know there's this way to do it, but it's really not as simple as just instantly running straight in the good direction then instantly rotating to face the wall. As I said, I'm ok with some difficulty and challenges, but not when it's due to a lack of possibility to do very basic moves.

A sudden move like that not being as natural (rl) as the weighty tank controls ... it is "natural" in a Mario game but here it is not and even Mario 64 have a tiny bit of momentum, in that regard how the modern controls were made at TR Remastered was ... clunky and not natural to how the game was meant to be, one may get used to it but still it feels off and to me "the thing I not only dont see need as goes against part of the gameplay itself" as part of the game is figuring out how to use Lara movenent in order to perform what is needed in time (what includes combat and certain platforming and traps sections) so if it makes anything easier, on a puzzle game (and yes I consider TR as a puzzle game "too") it defeats the purpose of the game, no matter if just at combat or just at certain sections (that I dont know where it would be easier platforming-wise but I can see it happen).