Poster censorship was "inadvertent"

[Broseph Joseph]

So theyre gonna be patched back in after the forums exploded with anger. Whats the lesson here kids? Rioting works. Be angry, be loud, above all be intransigent. Be absolutely implacable whilst the issue is still at hand and unresolved. Because all of this is how "they" gained the power in the first place to make game devs sheepishly ask 'how high sirs?' when they demand devs to jump.

A little philosophical background for why this works: The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority[archive.is]

Its a long-ish read, but if you have any interest in understanding why the world around you is heading in the directions it is, its well worth it.

As for the game, i said before that i wouldnt pick this up until it hits the bargain bucket in a couple of years, to make sure all the censor patches are over and done with so i know what im buying. Now i would say to Aspyr: patch everything else you censored back in too, and we'll talk.

[Alyx]

Originally posted by Lanzagranadas:

Originally posted by Topazlink:

They went out of their way to put in a disclaimer that specifically stated that it would be presented unaltered
It was altered
It was a lie and a breaking of a promise, no matter what was changed

It's a remaster, so literally nothing is "unaltered" on the visual department. You can ask for explanations if you want, but twisting what others actually said to fit X narrative is a different story:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TombRaider/comments/1apt93h/disclaimer_message_for_the_remasters/?rdt=64093

What Crystal Dynamics (not Aspyr) promised to present unaltered is specifically the "offensive depictions of people and cultures rooted in racial and ethnic prejudices" and "harmful stereotypes". It had nothing to do with women nude/sexy pics, so these are two separate issues.

Be that as it may, the posters were removed. And no, not 'by accident.' Not buying that. Not that I seek an explanation (as if they'd give one anyway), but sexy posters don't just get lost. When making a transfer from SD tp HD, and forgetting a few, maybe, but these posters were already done. They're back, though, so that ends it for me.

The objection to removing those posters was strong in me, though. Sensorship, yes; but, for me personally, simply getting sick and tired of ESG forces behind the scenes trying to re-educate me, at every turn. As someone else said, "You're not my mom; I already have one."

So, glad they're putting them back!

[Valiento]

Originally posted by Alyx:

Originally posted by Lanzagranadas:

It's a remaster, so literally nothing is "unaltered" on the visual department. You can ask for explanations if you want, but twisting what others actually said to fit X narrative is a different story:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TombRaider/comments/1apt93h/disclaimer_message_for_the_remasters/?rdt=64093

What Crystal Dynamics (not Aspyr) promised to present unaltered is specifically the "offensive depictions of people and cultures rooted in racial and ethnic prejudices" and "harmful stereotypes". It had nothing to do with women nude/sexy pics, so these are two separate issues.

Be that as it may, the posters were removed. And no, not 'by accident.' Not buying that. Not that I seek an explanation (as if they'd give one anyway), but sexy posters don't just get lost. When making a transfer from SD tp HD, and forgetting a few, maybe, but these posters were already done. They're back, though, so that ends it for me.

The objection to removing those posters was strong in me, though. Sensorship, yes; but, for me personally, simply getting sick and tired of ESG forces behind the scenes trying to re-educate me, at every turn. As someone else said, "You're not my mom; I already have one."

So, glad they're putting them back!

It’s literally a changed texture the file name to the texture had to be manually altered in the code to link to a different file or someone had to physically save a new image over the original file…

Neither of which are generally easy to do accidentally. Unlikely to be mistakes… you’d have to have to have real smooth brain code-monkeys.

[Teratus]

Originally posted by Alyx:

And that is a completely normal, healthy reaction. Me, I loved those posters, but more as a gamers' victory: in a 'Oo, lookit, anti-woke Lara is back in business!' kinda way. A bit of nostalgia.

Aye, I don't care for the posters personally but I agree with those saying they should be there on the grounds that they're part of the original content.
I do think though that in all likelihood their "removal" was accidental, I did make a comment somewhere that that was a possibility, though the devs silence on the matter and the general attitude of Crystal in recent years did give the "censorship" argument more weight.
I don't blame anyone for jumping to that conclusion tbh.

Seeing a similar thing with the whole Stellar Blade situation.
Personally I think the more covered up outfits are an improvement, but I agree with those who complained that they were changed.

I don't like censorship generally, though in Stellar Blades situation I'd lean more into it being false advertising territory than censorship..
I think they mislead people with the original outfits and pulled the rug out with the altered ones.
Even if it is a minor thing that was still not ok.
As you say below.. sex does sell and a lot of people probably wanted that game for reasons associated to that so.. yeah, again I can't blame people being annoyed about it.

Sex sells. And the more beautiful actresses fair better than ugly ones, I suppose, As do the Mel Gibsons of this world. Up until a few years ago, this was accepted, and simply seen as movies being somwhat 'Larger than life,' where every woman is little prettier than she likely would be IRL. It was seen as a form of escapism: not truly real, but real enough to elicit a suspension of disbelief -- for both men and women, btw. I've never been a woman, but I can imagine the appeal of dreaming of becoming a beautiful actress, one day. It was, at least, never seen as 'misogyny.'

It does, I can't argue against that.. (even if I'd like to lol)
Though I can roll my eyes at it XD

But yeah in general that's all true, my whole life i've seen guys fawning over female celebrities etc, and as much as some people hate to admit it.. the same is true for women fawning over male celebs as well.
Lots of guys had posters of "hot" women, usually models or actresses on their walls etc and girls had posters of "hot" guys usually band's or actors on theirs.. and if not on their walls then usually in some favourite magazines or something.
This was normal as hell a few decades ago.

The only real difference I see on that front today is that one of those behaviours is now condemned and you get branded a "horrible sexist" person for doing it.. but the other is totally ok..
That's mainly my issue with it, imo people can't have it both ways, either it's all bad and sexist or people should dump the double standard and stop being hypocrites about it.

[Topazlink]

I may have been wrong about what the disclaimer said, I definitely should've checked because it makes me guilty of the thing that I wanted fight against. That doesn't mean I can't be unhappy about other changes that were unnecessary, even if I presented it poorly. I still want proper clarity and for the media to actually care about the truth. Obviously the remastered graphics mode looks different, but the originals have been left unaltered this whole time and can still be bought and played today, so why would releasing a remaster mean that things like that should suddenly be changed? Especially when playing in the classic graphics mode.

[Lanzagranadas]

Originally posted by Alyx:

Be that as it may, the posters were removed. And no, not 'by accident.' Not buying that. Not that I seek an explanation (as if they'd give one anyway), but sexy posters don't just get lost. When making a transfer from SD tp HD, and forgetting a few, maybe, but these posters were already done. They're back, though, so that ends it for me.

It is possible for texture files to go missing or glitch out, as it has been reported in this remaster in more than one case (water pool in St. Francis' Folly, the Uzi secret water in Bartoli's Hideout, or the missing jail texture in modern graphics in Catacombs of the Talion)

Not saying anyone has to believe that's what happened here, just pointing out that it can happen. Now if this was by accident, that would mean there was no evil intent to begin with... and if it wasn't by accident, then that means people who fought for it should be happy because their voices were heared and they managed to get developers making a statement to promise putting that back. Either way, there's a positive side to it.

[Teratus]

Originally posted by Lanzagranadas:

It is possible for texture files to go missing or glitch out, as it has been reported in this remaster in more than one case (water pool in St. Francis' Folly, the Uzi secret water in Bartoli's Hideout, or the missing jail texture in modern graphics in Catacombs of the Talion)

Not saying anyone has to believe that's what happened here, just pointing out that it can happen. Now if this was by accident, that would mean there was no evil intent to begin with... and if it wasn't by accident, then that means people who fought for it should be happy because their voices were heared and they managed to get developers making a statement to promise putting that back. Either way, there's a positive side to it.

Yeah, and some evidence I think to back that it was an accident was that the original visuals remained unchanged.

As we can see from the TR1 Jacket situation, the original artwork was also changed to cover up the nude lady.
So if the posters had been removed deliberately or censored then in all likelihood they'd have removed them from the original visuals as well for the same reason they decided to remove them in the first place.

The fact that they were only removed in the remastered visuals and during a patch that updated some textures does give the "it was an accident" excuse a lot of credibility.

It doesn't explain why it took so long to be addressed though, the devs could have been quicker to inform people that it wasn't intentional.
At the very least it may have diminished the theories and posts about it being censorship.

[Alyx]

Originally posted by Lanzagranadas:

Originally posted by Alyx:

Be that as it may, the posters were removed. And no, not 'by accident.' Not buying that. Not that I seek an explanation (as if they'd give one anyway), but sexy posters don't just get lost. When making a transfer from SD tp HD, and forgetting a few, maybe, but these posters were already done. They're back, though, so that ends it for me.

It is possible for texture files to go missing or glitch out, as it has been reported in this remaster in more than one case (water pool in St. Francis' Folly, the Uzi secret water in Bartoli's Hideout, or the missing jail texture in modern graphics in Catacombs of the Talion)

Not saying anyone has to believe that's what happened here, just pointing out that it can happen. Now if this was by accident, that would mean there was no evil intent to begin with... and if it wasn't by accident, then that means people who fought for it should be happy because their voices were heared and they managed to get developers making a statement to promise putting that back. Either way, there's a positive side to it.

Everythings's possible. :) Just didn't seem very plausible to me 2 sexy pin-up posters of Lara got removed 'inadvertently.' Like I said, though, them putting the posters back kinda ends it for me.

As to why they were returned, it kinda surprised me, really, Like I don't see Sony cave so easily with the Stellar Blade costumes.

Also, I think there's rarely evil intent on the side of the gaming studios themselves per se, but often higher-up producers make such choices, or censorship occurs as a result of undue outside influence. Maybe CD figured with so many thing 'wrong' with the game already, in terms of political correctness, why bother clinging to the removal of two posters? Or maybe it was just an acciddent. But in a DEI world, where journos are screaming the loudest about the 'male gaze', it would be a weird coincidence if just these pin-up posters were gone. But, indeed, still a possibility no malice was intended.

[Lanzagranadas]

Originally posted by Teratus:

The fact that they were only removed in the remastered visuals and during a patch that updated some textures does give the "it was an accident" excuse a lot of credibility.

The patch also included a texture/FX overhaul for Lost Artifact, so that somehow helps their statement sound more likely as well. (Lost Artifact was, afaik, the worst looking part of the remaster on release). But yeah, I wouldn't call it 100% legit at all... It's still fishy, and something that would have been better if it never happened to begin with.

[Teratus]

Originally posted by Alyx:

Also, I think there's rarely evil intent on the side of the gaming studios themselves per se, but often higher-up producers make such choices, or censorship occurs as a result of undue outside influence.

A lot of it comes from activists within the industry, this we've seen repeatedly over the years.

But what's been coming up a lot lately is the ESRB, an organisation created in the U.S years ago thanks in part to all those idiot politicians and bad parents who constantly moaned about violent video games, and blaming them for everything wrong in the world.

They're the ones mainly responsible for forcing ratings etc on games based on their content, and they have a lot of leverage in the video games industry.
It's strongly suspected by some gamer's that activists have also infiltrated this organisation as well and are abusing it to force companies into pushing their agendas in games.
Pander to the agenda.. get a better rating basically.

In many ways it's a lot like the corrupt and authoritarian social credit system in China.. so frankly it's something that needs to be completely disbanded if you ask me.
Especially since we've had years upon years of investigations, research and hard evidence to completely debunk all of those absurd and ignorant arguments about "video games causing violence" etc that was the entire basis for the creation of the organisation in the first place.

Hopefully the entire gaming industry will revolt against the ESRB in the near future and stop complying with it.
But that won't happen unless huge amounts of gamer's put a hard foot down in protest to ESRB compliance.
And the only way they'll listen is if we make it extremely costly for them to ignore us.