The combat in these games is terrible right?

[ChubbiChibbai]

Or am i just not understanding how to play properly.
I never really played the originals FYI so this is my first experience - but i find that combat is very clumsy and your best bet is to try and stand out the way and just shoot stuff.

I'm in the colloseum at the moment fighting lions and while i can aim fire and then backflip to get some distance once i get to the interior rooms and have two lions attack me all i can really do is fire and leap around and hope for the best.

It doesn't really feel like i'm in control more than just hoping i don't get killed.

Part of the issue is the lock on aim feels really janky because your character has to face the enemy to lock on instead of your camera.

Any tips on making combat more enjoyable from someone that enjoys it or is it widely accepted the combat isn't great in these games and i just have to live with it.

[ChubbiChibbai]

Publicado originalmente por EF_Neo1st:

Publicado originalmente por ChubbiChibbai:

haha yes i've read about that and am nervous about playing TR2.
Even after this colloseum level i feel a bit more adept at shooting and dodging.

Honestly the worst enemy i've encountered so far is those stupid bats that fly at you when you just made a difficult jump and come so close you can't shoot them.

There is always ways to take no damage or just a tiny bit of damage even against hitscan enemies

Oh really?
Even that guy that randomly appears and shoots at you for a bit?

[EF_Neo1st]

Publicado originalmente por ChubbiChibbai:

Publicado originalmente por EF_Neo1st:

There is always ways to take no damage or just a tiny bit of damage even against hitscan enemies

Oh really?
Even that guy that randomly appears and shoots at you for a bit?

Yes, because he shows up always from the same places and do always the same things (given you control your moves to force the AI to said patterns), he can easily be cheesed for little to no damage.

[Dude Guyman]

Publicado originalmente por ChubbiChibbai:

Or am i just not understanding how to play properly.

Combat was always clunky, but I'm pretty sure it is even worse in the remaster. To me it seems like the enemies move much faster, so they run up on you and "stick to you". If they are "stuck to you" all your controls except shoot are interrupted. So most times they run up on you, push you against a wall, and you can not do ANYTHING about it. Can't jump, roll through them, nothing. Just eat health packs and shoot.

Pretty friggin lame. So yeah, just learn where they are and bee line for a "cube" or something to jump on and shoot them from there. If they get to you before you jump up...bah!

[Samz]

Publicado originalmente por ChubbiChibbai:

Or am i just not understanding how to play properly.
I never really played the originals FYI so this is my first experience - but i find that combat is very clumsy and your best bet is to try and stand out the way and just shoot stuff.

I'm in the colloseum at the moment fighting lions and while i can aim fire and then backflip to get some distance once i get to the interior rooms and have two lions attack me all i can really do is fire and leap around and hope for the best.

It doesn't really feel like i'm in control more than just hoping i don't get killed.

Part of the issue is the lock on aim feels really janky because your character has to face the enemy to lock on instead of your camera.

Any tips on making combat more enjoyable from someone that enjoys it or is it widely accepted the combat isn't great in these games and i just have to live with it.

While the modern controls make it wonky, jump, jump and more jump.

Do backflip/sideflips to avoid damage and search as much as you can to obtain more ammo and health.

You want to be as mobile as possible.

[•OyajiBR•]

You don't need to stay away from the enemy, sometimes you just can't. Learn to roll in the air (press roll while jumping forward or backwards), that's the best way to avoid AND ambush them in classic Tomb Raider. And remember that this is an old game.

[SRY:(]

The Combat is actually better tha i rememberd, as a Kid It Is Not amazing but It Is fun enough If you ask me

[METAL]

Publicado originalmente por king_of_jamaica:

Until you get to mummies of course. ♥♥♥♥ mummies.

Oh yes. I hate them too. Main reason why I don't want to keep playing unfinished business. The encounters are just too much. Especially the flying ones.

[aeglosistarion]

Just posted a guide on the subject: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3167126185

Basic gist is that dodge-roll + backstab is the key to combat in Classic TR, especially if you're a newcomer and don't have all the enemy spawns memorized and the decades of muscle memory to pull off the highflying stuff effectively.

I've spent most of my gaming life thinking combat in these games is just broken garbage, but this approach actually makes is a whole lot easier to appreciate.

[ikkuzu]

Publicado originalmente por OyajiBR☕:

Learn to roll in the air (press roll while jumping forward or backwards), that's the best way to avoid AND ambush them in classic Tomb Raider.

there was no mid-air-flip in the original TR1, though.

[Topazlink]

With animal enemies your best bet is to stay on, quickly scan the environment for, or run back to a high enough vantage point to shoot from that they can't reach. If it's just a single animal, or multiple in a larger area you can try to watch their movements and run/jump/backpedal accordingly.

Remember that holding shoot will cause Lara to keep targeting the same enemy and when she can, she'll shoot the enemy she's locked onto, even if it runs away or dies. If you want to switch target, let go of shoot and hold it down again and she'll target the closest enemy.

Jumping over their heads is a viable strategy too, especially now that they added the mid-air roll to TR1. Enemies often turn slowly, so getting behind them and running around them is awkward, but doable, and very useful against human enemies because they can't shoot you if they're not facing you.

There'll still be times when it'll feel like BS though, like being put in traps with multiple enemies that are hard to get away from, or enemies with guns that shoot you from too far away or even through the level geometry. Pierre in certain levels will keep shooting you even when you've hurt him enough to make him run away, your best bet after making his health low enough is to quickly get to safety so he prioritises running instead of fighting.

[shonasof]

The combat sucks, yeah. Even when the game was new the combat felt janky. It feels almost like they _had_ to have combat in their exploration/jumping puzzle game so they did what they could.

[wabbit]

Publicado originalmente por aeglosistarion:

Just posted a guide on the subject: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3167126185

Basic gist is that dodge-roll + backstab is the key to combat in Classic TR, especially if you're a newcomer and don't have all the enemy spawns memorized and the decades of muscle memory to pull off the highflying stuff effectively.

I've spent most of my gaming life thinking combat in these games is just broken garbage, but this approach actually makes is a whole lot easier to appreciate.

This is the way. Once you get the hang of exploiting the way enemies have to turn, the combat is actually pretty fun.

[aeglosistarion]

Publicado originalmente por wabbit:

Publicado originalmente por aeglosistarion:

Just posted a guide on the subject: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3167126185

Basic gist is that dodge-roll + backstab is the key to combat in Classic TR, especially if you're a newcomer and don't have all the enemy spawns memorized and the decades of muscle memory to pull off the highflying stuff effectively.

I've spent most of my gaming life thinking combat in these games is just broken garbage, but this approach actually makes is a whole lot easier to appreciate.

This is the way. Once you get the hang of exploiting the way enemies have to turn, the combat is actually pretty fun.

Thank you for saying so. I rarely see it brought up in discussions of the combat, which is why I struggled with it for so long. Even some of the streamers who clearly know and love these games just tell people to just hop around all the time, and like someone already pointed out, without the mid-air quickturn originally introduced in TR2, there is a hard upper limit to how effective that can be.

Maybe it's one of those things where once you do it this way, it seems so obvious you never think to mention it?

Anyways, since it improved my experience with these games so dramatically, I thougtht I'd point people in the right direction.

[jdolev7]

Publicado originalmente por ChubbiChibbai:

Or am i just not understanding how to play properly.
I never really played the originals FYI so this is my first experience - but i find that combat is very clumsy and your best bet is to try and stand out the way and just shoot stuff.

I'm in the colloseum at the moment fighting lions and while i can aim fire and then backflip to get some distance once i get to the interior rooms and have two lions attack me all i can really do is fire and leap around and hope for the best.

It doesn't really feel like i'm in control more than just hoping i don't get killed.

Part of the issue is the lock on aim feels really janky because your character has to face the enemy to lock on instead of your camera.

Any tips on making combat more enjoyable from someone that enjoys it or is it widely accepted the combat isn't great in these games and i just have to live with it.

Against enemies like lions that like charging at you backflip us useless unless you have a big distance what you can do insted is to jump while you press the roll button to flip mid air so once you land you can shoot at there backs do it twice and it should be enough

[McCloud]

In case no has yet mentioned this strategy yet: save often and just run all willy nilly into each new area and ONLY scout. Once you get a feel for the number of enemies, ranged/melee, and most importantly vantage points. Reload. Bee-line straight to perhaps a ledge/high ground, jump up there and annihilate everything. If they're ranged you are now prepared to find corners to round to have them file in single file. It never fails this tactic and relieves all stress of combat. If this still doesn't work, get some beer, get plastered, then play and dying won't matter because it's now hilarious.