Forgot How Brutal TR2 Is In Comparison To TR1

[Vezera]

Between all the human enemies with hitscan gun firing and the complete lack of med-packs, you really hurt for healing in the early part of the game. Almost feel like the devs originally designed the game with the idea you were only suppose to have like 2-3 Large Med-Packs at any given time.

[Draculol]

You must master the gun fight strats (as in keep moving and get behind them). I do agree some parts you're just meant to eat damage and burn through your medpacks/ammo but that's the point and most ennemies drop some so you should be ok. Good luck it's worth it.

[McCloud]

I'm sure someone will chime in with a 20 paragraph history on the development of the first 3 games but my *theory* (not fact based whatsoever) is:

The original devs of TR1 seen so much success they knew they must make the next one as soon as possible and ride the Croft Train so they hired many many many new people to start pumping out the series. Those very new developers were given the task of TR2 but they had a wildly different vision being they came from a golden era of FPS (doom, golden eye, etc) so they radically changed the design direction. Thus why it is a stinking turd of level design, and kill fest with no imagination. Anything remotely fun in the game probably came from the OG team.

While the TR2 was screwing everything up but they just had to get it out asap the original team probably started on TR3 and some of the expansions, thus why those shine much like TR1.

This is all speculation of course but something horrible happened with TR2; yet most like that one the most, somehow.

Enjoy lol

[FhqwhTODD]

Originally posted by McCloud:

I'm sure someone will chime in with a 20 paragraph history on the development of the first 3 games but my *theory* (not fact based whatsoever) is:

The original devs of TR1 seen so much success they knew they must make the next one as soon as possible and ride the Croft Train so they hired many many many new people to start pumping out the series. Those very new developers were given the task of TR2 but they had a wildly different vision being they came from a golden era of FPS (doom, golden eye, etc) so they radically changed the design direction. Thus why it is a stinking turd of level design, and kill fest with no imagination. Anything remotely fun in the game probably came from the OG team.

While the TR2 was screwing everything up but they just had to get it out asap the original team probably started on TR3 and some of the expansions, thus why those shine much like TR1.

This is all speculation of course but something horrible happened with TR2; yet most like that one the most, somehow.

Enjoy lol

Something similar to your theory did in fact happen but with TR5 & 6. The new team was on 6 while the classic team (that already wanted the series to end with 4) was on 5.
And yes: The Publisher basically wanted a new one of these games for every Christmas season.

[vinyblaster]

Originally posted by Vezera:

Between all the human enemies with hitscan gun firing and the complete lack of med-packs, you really hurt for healing in the early part of the game. Almost feel like the devs originally designed the game with the idea you were only suppose to have like 2-3 Large Med-Packs at any given time.

Lack of medpacks? Almost each human enemy drops a medpack. I'm barely 1/3 through the game and I have like 40 of them.

That being said, yeah do a TR2 playthrough right after TR1 you do see that they turned it to 11.

[Draculol]

I think it's the other way around and new blood was involved with TR3 mostly, but i don't even know for sure. I feel that TR2 is loved by many (me included) because it's a nice balance between platforming puzzles and action sequences. When you know you know, it's just triggers and stuff after all, but when you're playing it the first time you always have guns out because maybe there's someone coming lol, gotta be real attentive to sounds to get a heads up.
TR1 in that regard you barely pay attention to ennemies, it's mostly melee animals you could cheese for days and enough medpacks/ammo to rebuild Lara's manor with lol. Which is fine too it's a different challenge.

I couldn't disagree more with TR2 level design being bad but that's just a matter of taste I guess. Reducing TR2 to just gun action crap sounds as unfair as calling TR1 a pushing blocks game. In truth any level could feel kinda meh when you're playing them blind and end up backtracking way more than you're supposed to.

[dml!]

If you've not been collecting all the secrets, I recommend it. If you get all three in a level you unlock a stack of ammo or sometimes even a weapon earlier than normal. That extra ammo goes a long way to being able to use more powerful weapons on the more dangerous enemies. I definitely found my second playthrough a bit easier once I was collecting all of them.

[Vezera]

Originally posted by vinyblaster:

Lack of medpacks? Almost each human enemy drops a medpack. I'm barely 1/3 through the game and I have like 40 of them.

That being said, yeah do a TR2 playthrough right after TR1 you do see that they turned it to 11.

I dunno, I just beat Bartolli Hideout and I'm at like 5 Smalls/2 Large. Granted, I've yet to use the Shotgun or Uzis and have really only used the Autos on the Gunbois. Even rolling around behind them to limit how many times they hit me. Seems like it's been 50 Ammo/40 Small/10 Large on the drops.

Originally posted by dml!:

If you've not been collecting all the secrets, I recommend it. If you get all three in a level you unlock a stack of ammo or sometimes even a weapon earlier than normal. That extra ammo goes a long way to being able to use more powerful weapons on the more dangerous enemies. I definitely found my second playthrough a bit easier once I was collecting all of them.

Oh, I've absolutely been gunning for all Secrets, and I only missed a singular item on Bartolli Hideout so far. I don't know TR2 or 3 nearly well enough to go for All Items like I do with TR1, and I can't even finish that one yet because I'm at the level with the Uzi ammo in the lava :v

Do you keep ammo in TR2 when they take your stuff? I seem to remember TR3 specifically taking ammo away making the game HELLA rough towards the end if you do Nevada last.

[GamerXT]

Originally posted by McCloud:

The original devs of TR1 seen so much success they knew they must make the next one as soon as possible and ride the Croft Train so they hired many many many new people to start pumping out the series.

Not totally, the team who made TR2 where basically the same as the TR1 team, as seen in the credits page.

It was TR3 where they added new people ( although some where technically from other Core Design games, and a few where from TR1+2, like the FMV designers for example ).

I presume the reason why there's more action in 2, is simply because of the usual gaming trends towards that, while maybe not wanting it to be more of the same ?

Ironically, the original creator of Lara, never liked the idea of her being a James Bond type character, which is why TR1 never really included people, and I think is one of the reasons he left before TR2 was released.

Originally posted by Gottkaiser Fhqwhgod:

Something similar to your theory did in fact happen but with TR5 & 6. The new team was on 6 while the classic team (that already wanted the series to end with 4) was on 5.

More the opposite, the team who worked on 4 and 5, was the TR3 team. The original TR1+2 team wanted TR3 to be a PS2 game. When Eidos wanted it to be for the PS1, they did other things before prototyping TR6 along with new people. Some did quit though I believe, while the TR5 team also worked on TR6 later on.

[Draculol]

You keep the ammo and medpacks in TR2, just gotta find the weapons again. in TR3 I think you get all the stuff you've collected in remaster (as opposed to the original) but I'm not sure and always pick Nevada first anyway lol

[Ceceli Δ]

Another post of another person complaining about TR2 being hard when I'm fact everybody knows TR2 to be the most popular in the franchise. It's hard not to think this is the main course to jesters hunt at this point...

[McCloud]

Originally posted by GamerXT:

I presume the reason why there's more action in 2, is simply because of the usual gaming trends towards that, while maybe not wanting TR2 to be more of the same ?

Just seems odd they would depart so far from the magical formula TR1 had unless I'm mistaken and it wasn't until TR2 the Greatest Hits started rolling out. All the same, I still remember there were far more not in favor to this "new tomb raider" (TR2) back in the day. Far more people back then, then now. I still enjoy it for what it is and it's a good game, just not a Tomb Raider like TR1 and 3.

[Vezera]

Finished up with the Offshore Rig levels, and I'm at like 8/8 on Small/Large Med-Packs. Just weird how by this 'roughly halfway' point in TR1, I'd be like 30/20 and only just now starting to fight enemies you can't easily safe-spot.

On an unrelated note but related cause of the game's script in the Offshore Rig levels - 'Jackanory' and 'Dettox' are not words you hear anymore. Can't even look up proper definitions on Google, and the one definition I found for 'Jackanory' was most definitely not right.

[Maeks]

Most (if not all) enemies with guns can be killed before they even have a chance of firing at you.

[Vezera]

Originally posted by Maeks:

Most (if not all) enemies with guns can be killed before they even have a chance of firing at you.

Yeah, but that largely requires knowing where and how the various enemies spawn. A new player opening a door in Offshore Rig isn't gonna know a guy spawns behind them to sneak attack them while they're looking at the two in front of them. While that's one of the 'dirty' spawns, even just taking the chip damage from a gunshot or two from each guy in individual levels is gonna add up on a newer player.

I don't even think I healed on Diving Area, but I -knew- in advance that this is where the FlamethrowerBois started spawning and whipped out the Uzis accordingly to make sure they never even got a bead on me, and knew at least one guy was gonna round a corner on the stairs with a shotgun which lead to me equipping a Shotgun of my own for him. New players just take those hits and/or deaths.

[vinyblaster]

Originally posted by Vezera:

Originally posted by Maeks:

Most (if not all) enemies with guns can be killed before they even have a chance of firing at you.

Yeah, but that largely requires knowing where and how the various enemies spawn. A new player opening a door in Offshore Rig isn't gonna know a guy spawns behind them to sneak attack them while they're looking at the two in front of them. While that's one of the 'dirty' spawns, even just taking the chip damage from a gunshot or two from each guy in individual levels is gonna add up on a newer player.

I don't even think I healed on Diving Area, but I -knew- in advance that this is where the FlamethrowerBois started spawning and whipped out the Uzis accordingly to make sure they never even got a bead on me, and knew at least one guy was gonna round a corner on the stairs with a shotgun which lead to me equipping a Shotgun of my own for him. New players just take those hits and/or deaths.

Well, yeah, the game is more difficult for new players, so? I don't think it's a problem as new player that you sometimes die, or need to redo a section, or get stuck for a while trying to solve a puzzle. Believe it or not, but 'bAcK iN tHe DaY` there were games *we would not even be able to finish*! No internet to get a step by step walkthrough. Can't figure out where to get this key? Well, tough luck bro. Not every game needs to be easy.

Plus, this whole thing is moot anyway, there are so many medpacks in the game that you can eat them like candy.