What to expect of (hopefully) upcoming Tomb Raider 4-5-6 remasters?

[diocturn]

For clarification, I have never played the og games until now, I actually started playing TR with CD Legend TR and Survivor trilogy.

So, base on my experience with the remasters, if Aspyr or Saber hire the same team who developed it, would they make an exceptional job like they did (in less than a year since the acquirement of TR by Embracer) with the TR l-lll remasters?.

But I've also heard Tomb raider 5 or 6 is incomplete/broken? So do you think the team behind the remasters, would be able to complete/revamp the game(s?) with the same quality standard and similar (or better) gameplay philosophy as Core Design did with the first trilogy?

[gps]

Well, I really don't want to sound nasty - but there is still so much incomplete/broken with THIS remaster, I think they should first prove they can deliver a complete product with THIS release. If they can't do that with games that were pretty solid when they released in the nineties, then how would they be able to fix games that were not that great in their initial release.
And don't get me wrong, I really like the original games and also the intent of this remaster project. But please fix I-III before trying to sell something new. To have a remaster of IV would be great, V would be welcome as well, the issues with V seem to be fixable. VI, well. I sure would be intersted in getting a remaster for that as well, but it seems like there is so much unfinished or even cut from the original release, that I am sceptical a proper remaster is possible. My world will not end if we don't get VI.

[ikkuzu]

expect people to be even more confused with TR4 and TR5 than they are with the first three. these games had some incredibly unintuitive controls, illogical puzzles and inconsistent mechanics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFVuYyqWe38

[Philly Wonken]

6 would need more than simple HD textures. The game is so fundamentally broken, on so many levels, it would need a Resident Evil style remake. It is not going to happen.

[shadowgravy]

My speculation is that there won't be a TR4-TR6 remastered collection.

I honestly think that remastering TR4 and TR5 would give diminished results compared to the current collection. First, TR4 was already built on a refined version of the original Tomb Raider engine that allowed for smoother models and slightly better graphics, so arguably the new remasters aren't much of a leap past the current TR4 and TR5 games. Second, the expansion pack "The Times Exclusive" for TR4 is short and was a free exclusive funded by the The Times newspaper (so maybe there would be a licensing issue?). TR5 is cool but the best argument for remastering it is to modernize it for Windows 10/11 and fix some bugs.

TR6 Angel of Darkness is a fundamentally different game from the first five, tied to them primarily by the Core Design label and a forced plot arc that was initiated by TR4's ending. So, on one hand TR4-TR6 is a trilogy and thematically would work as a package; while on the other they aren't as unified by common code as TR1-TR3.

I recently replayed the Steam versions of TR4-TR6. There are mods that make them play very well, and arguably are necessary:

1. Angel of Darkness Definitive Edition (Link[www.traodde.com]) -- I'm starting with this one because it adds the AntiMicroX game controls mod that integrates gamepad support. I later used AntiMicroX to map my gamepad to TR4 "The Last Revelation" and TR5 "Chronicles," and both played similar to the current Remasters collection's Tank Controls option.
The AoD Definitive Edition improves much about the base game including some level edits that help the story flow a little better.


2. TR4 "The Last Revelation" -- Start here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2939200988
The very important part of the various fixes is the dgVoodoo mod.
If this download doesn't do the trick, here are some alternate links that may help:
- https://github.com/Trxyebeep/TOMB4 (I have TOMB4-2.2.1 in my archive collection)
- https://tombraiders.net/stella/downloads/TR4files.html -- various mods are listed.

Additionally, you can dlownload The Times Exclusive levels at link[www.croftgeneration.com].


3. TR5 "Chronicles" -- Start here:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2939290828
Read the comment I added in December under the guide about dgVoodoo.

The first three 'tales' in the Chronicles story ran great for me. The last story has some bugs, mostly in the final level, but I was able to get through the game twice. Honestly, the bugs aren't as bad as with the Steam versions of Legend and Anniversary.
Additional links:
- https://github.com/Trxyebeep/TOMB5 (I have zip file named Tryxebeep exe.+.dll v3_2_0 in my archive collection.
- HD Upscale Textures by New Dwight (Link[www.tombraiderforums.com]). Adding these takes a little work.

I hope this helps.

[DogMeat]

Originally posted by ikkuzu:

expect people to be even more confused with TR4 and TR5 than they are with the first three. these games had some incredibly unintuitive controls, illogical puzzles and inconsistent mechanics:

They doubled down on the "adventure" part of the "action adventure" genre, that's for sure. Especially the classic 'moon logic'.

[OyajiBR☕]

If Tomb Raider 5 Chronicles were made nowadays, it would probably be a DLC for Tomb Raider 4 The Last Revelation. It's complete, but short. Lara Croft dies in the end of TR4, so TR5 is just her friends talking about 4 short stories (3 stages each) and the video that explains how a priestess saved her was cut from TR6 beta version, unfortunately. Tomb Raider 6 The Angel of Darkness has amazing music and the most realistic climbing of the whole series (I used to be a climber, those moves are very accurate). But a lot of content was cut, Core Design had difficulty and few people working to adapt to the new engine. Tomb Raider 7 Legend had more investment than all previous games together, according to an interview with former Core Design employees.

[DogMeat]

Originally posted by OyajiBR☕:

If Tomb Raider 5 Chronicles were made nowadays, it would probably be a DLC for Tomb Raider 4 The Last Revelation.

Chronicles has always felt like that. Every classic TR game felt like a major step up from the last in terms of graphics, new features and content. Even TR 3, which started as more of an add-on to TR 2 features some real impressive improvements to effects and new features.

Chronicles has near identical graphical fidelity and in terms of new moves, a handful of incredibly context sensitive moves only used in a level or two.

When judged as what it is, a sequel, its a disappointment all around. If it functioned like what it feels it is... an expansion... it would have been remembered a lot more fondly.

[OyajiBR☕]

I HOPE I'M WRONG, but this guy might be the reason why Tomb Raider 4 will not be remastered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Yves_Empereur
He's a real famous archaeologist and in Tomb Raider 4 they made him as Lara Croft's friend. He didn't like to be shown as a game character, so he sued Core Design and that's why in Tomb Raider 5 he doesn't appear. When I was a kid I thought he was a douche, now I understand his position, not everyone would like to be known more for a fictitious character than for their job.

[OyajiBR☕]

Originally posted by DogMeat:

Originally posted by OyajiBR☕:

If Tomb Raider 5 Chronicles were made nowadays, it would probably be a DLC for Tomb Raider 4 The Last Revelation.

Chronicles has always felt like that. Every classic TR game felt like a major step up from the last in terms of graphics, new features and content. Even TR 3, which started as more of an add-on to TR 2 features some real impressive improvements to effects and new features.

Chronicles has near identical graphical fidelity and in terms of new moves, a handful of incredibly context sensitive moves only used in a level or two.

When judged as what it is, a sequel, its a disappointment all around. If it functioned like what it feels it is... an expansion... it would have been remembered a lot more fondly.

True. I like Tomb Raider 5, it just feels more like an expansion of 4 than a sequel. Also, the Level Editor was being developed at the same time to be released with it, so I think it's one of the reasons why it was short. Remember to play it with this in mind, @diocturn , it's fun, just short.

[DogMeat]

Originally posted by OyajiBR☕:

I HOPE I'M WRONG, but this guy might be the reason why Tomb Raider 4 will not be remastered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Yves_Empereur
He's a real famous archaeologist and in Tomb Raider 4 they made him as Lara Croft's friend. He didn't like to be shown as a game character, so he sued Core Design and that's why in Tomb Raider 5 he doesn't appear. When I was a kid I thought he was a douche, now I understand his position, not everyone would like to be known more for a fictitious character than for their job.

I don't think he actually did sue, he either threatened to or made a stink about how upset he was.

I also don't blame him. Keep in mind, he is portrayed as a coward in game and was going to be a spy in Chronicles. Charles Kane in Chronicles? That is the character they replaced Jean-Yves with... and it was done late. One of the cutscenes in Chronicles features Charles Kane appearing as Jean-Yves for a frame.

This caused even more issues with Angel of Darkness. Lara was supposed to be mad at Jean-Yves for abandoning her at the end of TR IV (again, gee why was Yves angry at his portrayal?) and he was supposed to be the murder victim that sparks the events of AoD. Lara being angry at Werner made no sense and was them trying to Frankenstein the story together.

IF we ever got a remaster of IV I'd want them to replace Yves with Kane. I'd also prefer AoD was completely remade and it's story dramatically altered and fixed.

Wow, I didn't even realize this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lo4CGHZSgw
Jean Yves was legit IN Chronicles! I heard he was pulled late in the game... but wow!

[mdesaleah]

Either remaster 4 and 5. (AoD would need more than that if they really want to get the most out of it)

Or start updating the current ports of Legend, Anniversary, Underworld to run on newer PCs without mods and port the DLC levels over (since that would also be easy to do)

[diocturn]

Originally posted by gps:

Well, I really don't want to sound nasty - but there is still so much incomplete/broken with THIS remaster, I think they should first prove they can deliver a complete product with THIS release. If they can't do that with games that were pretty solid when they released in the nineties, then how would they be able to fix games that were not that great in their initial release.
And don't get me wrong, I really like the original games and also the intent of this remaster project. But please fix I-III before trying to sell something new. To have a remaster of IV would be great, V would be welcome as well, the issues with V seem to be fixable. VI, well. I sure would be intersted in getting a remaster for that as well, but it seems like there is so much unfinished or even cut from the original release, that I am sceptical a proper remaster is possible. My world will not end if we don't get VI.

Yeah you right, they still need to patch some stuff (although first playthrough of TR 1 only had issues with the Cistern key and a box crate in Natla's mines not having collision with other objects, and camera acting up)

Well only time would tell but, I've heard the developer Xproger has worked on other big games as well and is like a TR fan since forever, as well as other modders of the TR community have participated on this remaster, thats why I asked if the TR classics are in good hands (Saber's TR dev team) specially if it comes to actually developing/fixing TR Vl because I wanted to know if said game would have the same level of polish and quality (minus the patch mess with Epic) as the first remasters.

But honestly I can't wait for the patch and if possible some news on new remasters eventually fr (hopefully they get to make a new TR game some day- Saber, not CD)

[diocturn]

Originally posted by ikkuzu:

expect people to be even more confused with TR4 and TR5 than they are with the first three. these games had some incredibly unintuitive controls, illogical puzzles and inconsistent mechanics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFVuYyqWe38

Oop watching this but after I finish the entire remasters trying to avoid spoilers yk but ty

[diocturn]

Originally posted by Philly Wonken:

6 would need more than simple HD textures. The game is so fundamentally broken, on so many levels, it would need a Resident Evil style remake. It is not going to happen.

I mean if they get the source code and modify it instead of keeping it as faitful as possible but keeping the ghrapics or even demaking it to match the entire remasters I mean... Now adding the missing content some of you have mentioned well Idk

[diocturn]

Originally posted by shadowgravy:

My speculation is that there won't be a TR4-TR6 remastered collection.

I honestly think that remastering TR4 and TR5 would give diminished results compared to the current collection. First, TR4 was already built on a refined version of the original Tomb Raider engine that allowed for smoother models and slightly better graphics, so arguably the new remasters aren't much of a leap past the current TR4 and TR5 games. Second, the expansion pack "The Times Exclusive" for TR4 is short and was a free exclusive funded by the The Times newspaper (so maybe there would be a licensing issue?). TR5 is cool but the best argument for remastering it is to modernize it for Windows 10/11 and fix some bugs.

TR6 Angel of Darkness is a fundamentally different game from the first five, tied to them primarily by the Core Design label and a forced plot arc that was initiated by TR4's ending. So, on one hand TR4-TR6 is a trilogy and thematically would work as a package; while on the other they aren't as unified by common code as TR1-TR3.

I recently replayed the Steam versions of TR4-TR6. There are mods that make them play very well, and arguably are necessary:

1. Angel of Darkness Definitive Edition (Link[www.traodde.com]) -- I'm starting with this one because it adds the AntiMicroX game controls mod that integrates gamepad support. I later used AntiMicroX to map my gamepad to TR4 "The Last Revelation" and TR5 "Chronicles," and both played similar to the current Remasters collection's Tank Controls option.
The AoD Definitive Edition improves much about the base game including some level edits that help the story flow a little better.


2. TR4 "The Last Revelation" -- Start here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2939200988
The very important part of the various fixes is the dgVoodoo mod.
If this download doesn't do the trick, here are some alternate links that may help:
- https://github.com/Trxyebeep/TOMB4 (I have TOMB4-2.2.1 in my archive collection)
- https://tombraiders.net/stella/downloads/TR4files.html -- various mods are listed.

Additionally, you can dlownload The Times Exclusive levels at link[www.croftgeneration.com].


3. TR5 "Chronicles" -- Start here:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2939290828
Read the comment I added in December under the guide about dgVoodoo.

The first three 'tales' in the Chronicles story ran great for me. The last story has some bugs, mostly in the final level, but I was able to get through the game twice. Honestly, the bugs aren't as bad as with the Steam versions of Legend and Anniversary.
Additional links:
- https://github.com/Trxyebeep/TOMB5 (I have zip file named Tryxebeep exe.+.dll v3_2_0 in my archive collection.
- HD Upscale Textures by New Dwight (Link[www.tombraiderforums.com]). Adding these takes a little work.

I hope this helps.

BYE saving this in case we don't get more remasters ty so much