save styles from ps1 intact here?

[Omnipotencia]

tr3 save system was destroyed on pc, any info on the save crystals at all?

[Lanzagranadas]

Most likely not. It makes little sense from a design standpoint to have each game in the trilogy pack with a different save system, 1 with save spots, 2 with save anywhere/anytime, and 3 with limited portable save crystals. This inconcistency was a result of Core Design not having a clear idea on how to handle the saving system, so they just tried different methods until they finally decided to stick with TRII's.

I personally don't mind and don't think it destroys anything. Those who want more tension/challenge/mistake punishment can allways add a saving limit ourselves. When I played TRIII on PC I just downloaded a mod to remove the life crystals and set a rule to only save at the beginning of each level, which is actually harder than having saving crystals.

[Omnipotencia]

i was hoping they would have original save styles as an option that sucks, i still think tomb raider 3 had the best save system from any game as it is now you don't really play the game you jump a few gaps then save do a few more save again, guess ps1 will remain the best way to play tomb raider 3 or the original tomb raider 3 with the tomb3 patch as that has saving with crystals lets go

[Dgo]

What do you mean with the crystal saving system being destroyed on TR3?
Speaking of PC they are just healing and decorative elements. You can save all and whenever you want on these games.

[Omnipotencia]

Originally posted by Dgo:

What do you mean with the crystal saving system being destroyed on TR3?
Speaking of PC they are just healing and decorative elements. You can save all and whenever you want on these games.

they never implemented the ps1 save system that's why they are healing crystals. the only issue with tomb raider 3 is the bs forced fullscreen that wrappers cant seem to handle if you community patch the game so its almost impossible to stream tomb raider 3,

dunno how long it will take for the remasters to get patched with the trandom and community patch, might buy them if they get features only available for the current games

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Dgo:

What do you mean with the crystal saving system being destroyed on TR3?
Speaking of PC they are just healing and decorative elements. You can save all and whenever you want on these games.

That is exactly his complain.
Having limited amount of saves trivialize less the gameplay like:
"a more diffucult jump = save",
"an enemy = save",
"found an item = save",
"multiple save states to check situations = save save save", etc.

[Dgo]

Ok so why do you want the psx system to be implemented here? PC's way is superior all the time. Saving all the time whenever and wherever you want.

I mean are you just complaining because they left the crystals? They are decorative don't harm, they also heal.

Console system is another thing but this is PC. PC was always this way why should they "implement" the console system when PC's is better. If you want a challenge there are mods as smb mentioned above to remove the crystals and you can even force yourself to not save.

There's also the chance to just play the 'simulated' versions to get "more challenge". Again this is PC.

[Lanzagranadas]

'Save scumming' has been a controversial topic for a very long time. Some people like it, some believe it ruins the experience, some argue that it depends on the game.

As far as TR games are concerned I'm within the second group. But then again, we could allways save scum in TRII, IV, and V, and that wouldn't stop any of us from enjoying those games. The fact that you can doesn't mean that you have to.

A moderately experienced TR player should be able to beat individual levels from start to end without saving anyway. It's not such a huge feat once you've practiced a level and memorized what to do. TRIII had enough crystals to save at least 2-4 times per level, more or less depending on the level's length and difficulty. Just let your gamer pride set a limit on how many times you can save and you would achieve the same result, or make it even harder.

[Dgo]

tl;dr: I don't really see a problem with these crystals. You feel a scrub or cheater using them? You can either ignore them, use a mod to remove them, etc. Other than healing they won't change a thing because w/o them you will still be able to save all the freaking time unlike console versions.

So each person of course will enjoy different ways of playing these games.
The thing again this is PC and PC's TR were always the type: save all you want. SO having crystals on TRIII changes nothing but healing.

TR aren't exactly easy games to begin with. They contain hard levels, long levels the experience will increase the difficulty as soon as we move from TRI to (first expo) TRII (second expo) and then to TRIII (and 3rd expo). Levels are also longer, secrets are harder to get, there are more enemies, etc.

Some people will play these games many times and will try to speedrun them w/o saving, w/o dying or w/o using medipaks and with just pistols; many others will struggle A LOT and will be happy if they can beat all levels with all secrets no matter how many saves or items they used.

I get that each one will want a personal experience with or without infinite saving. But once more that's the main difference between PC and console.

You play on PC: you have inifinite saves, available expos too, etc.
You play on console: you are limited with saving. You don't have expos. But in the case of TRI you also have music, coloured greenish water (on PC it's transparent and doesn't seem like water at all).

Fortunatelly we have mods to play as we want. For PC on TRI you can get all the music, integrated expo, bugs correction and even for consoles TRI there are the expos too that someone ported to a disc with all the levels unlocked for PSX at least. I believe they did the same with 2 and 3.

[EF_Neo1st]

That kind of breaks the experience imho.
It is not the same expeerience to have 3 or 4 saves per stage at specific locations working as checkpoints (where you have to chose carefully when you use the checkpoint) and to have infinite saves at any moment.

I really dont care about "PC being superior", it is a different experience wwithout a doubt, the "I must not make a mistake" becomes "whatever if I maake a mistake I just reload closest save then save right before this", good part of the thrill of the game, even more on first run, is lost even because "what if I go there? Will I be able to come back or to come back safely?", with save scumming there is no danger, you just save and go and go saving over and over on different save states, there is no danger whatsoever in regard to exploration or any combat moment, the experience is different and as stated TR 1 and 3 have thiss kind of save while TR 2, 4 and 5 dont, because it was intended, not because "PC master race" crap and the intended experience is in parrt destroyed by save scumming.

Turn out I end up playing with 1 or 2 saves per lvl, or no save at all on the PC version because of this.

[Dgo]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

I really dont care about "PC being superior", it is a different experience wwithout a doubt

Don't know the hell you are talking about. I've never said "PC being superior". You are trying to put that on me with the quotation marks as if I even typed that. That's false.

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

the "I must not make a mistake" becomes "whatever if I maake a mistake I just reload closest save then save right before this", good part of the thrill of the game, even more on first run, is lost even because "what if I go there? Will I be able to come back or to come back safely?", with save scumming there is no danger, you just save and go and go saving over and over on different save states, there is no danger whatsoever in regard to exploration or any combat moment, the experience is different and as stated TR 1 and 3 have thiss kind of save while TR 2, 4 and 5 dont, because it was intended,

That's your personal problem. Use a mod to remove them or play the console version if you want more challenges. PC's TR always were different in this matter to begin with.

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

not because "PC master race" crap and the intended experience is in parrt destroyed by save scumming.

Again. Using quotation marks with something I've never even said. You didn't even understand a word I wrote, but worst is you are trying to charge me stuff I've never written ROFL.

I'll try to explain this to you once more. This is not about different hardware with one of them being superior. This is about how games DIFFER depending on their systems. And you want the console version to be the same as PC's TR. That never happened and probably ain't gonna happer either. Both PC and consoles' TR had many pros and cons as I've stated. You are the only one here claiming silly things as PC master race and bla bla bla.

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Turn out I end up playing with 1 or 2 saves per lvl, or no save at all on the PC version because of this.

That's on you no one cares. I like cherry icecream.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Dgo:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

I really dont care about "PC being superior", it is a different experience wwithout a doubt

Don't know the hell you are talking about. I've never said "PC being superior". You are trying to put that on me with the quotation marks as if I even typed that. That's false.

You made it look as "better". I may chosen the "wrong term" but it was in that regard

Originally posted by Dgo:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

the "I must not make a mistake" becomes "whatever if I maake a mistake I just reload closest save then save right before this", good part of the thrill of the game, even more on first run, is lost even because "what if I go there? Will I be able to come back or to come back safely?", with save scumming there is no danger, you just save and go and go saving over and over on different save states, there is no danger whatsoever in regard to exploration or any combat moment, the experience is different and as stated TR 1 and 3 have thiss kind of save while TR 2, 4 and 5 dont, because it was intended,

That's your personal problem. Use a mod to remove them or play the console version if you want more challenges. PC's TR always were different in this matter to begin with.

Because PC TRs were poor rushed ports so much the PC TRs even show the crystals but these mean nothing.

Originally posted by Dgo:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

not because "PC master race" crap and the intended experience is in parrt destroyed by save scumming.

Again. Using quotation marks with something I've never even said. You didn't even understand a word I wrote, but worst is you are trying to charge me stuff I've never written ROFL.

Adressed on the start of this reply.
I did nott try to change what you wrote, I got your intentions wrong as I got what you meant by infinite saves as a better thing as it was a PC version thing (therefore I got you meant PC version better in that regard).

Originally posted by Dgo:

I'll try to explain this to you once more. This is not about different hardware with one of them being superior. This is about how games DIFFER depending on their systems. And you want the console version to be the same as PC's TR. That never happened and probably ain't gonna happer either. Both PC and consoles' TR had many pros and cons as I've stated. You are the only one here claiming silly things as PC master race and bla bla bla.

Again, explained, if "PC version better" is not what you meant, sorry.
If it is what you meant, I stand by what I said, it is a different experience that in my honest opinion is worst and not the devs intended experience, or else they could had implemented it on TR 1 and TR3.

Originally posted by Dgo:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Turn out I end up playing with 1 or 2 saves per lvl, or no save at all on the PC version because of this.

That's on you no one cares. I like cherry icecream.

People care, like OP, as you can notice it was not me who started the topic in that regard.
What you like is the poor version of the game that have a broken feature working just as cosmetic (the saves) and to fix it they just implemented infinite saves anywhere the player want.

[Dgo]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

You made it look as "better". I may chosen the "wrong term" but it was in that regard

Disagreed. I've never intented to make something look better than the another.
I've literally said both have their pros and cons.

And that's actually your flawed interpretation because you don't make the correct use of punctuation such as the quotation marks. Due to that you are trying to put things on my mouth I've never pronounced. I've never said or implied that. Read the whole thread again and maybe you can figure it out.

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Because PC TRs were poor rushed ports so much the PC TRs even show the crystals but these mean nothing.

That's pretty false and quite subjective. See? You are the one speaking about which platform is superior derailing the thread and even there you are mistaken.

Some examples:

TR1 was released first for Saturn and shortly after ported to both PC and PSX. TR1 for PC got an exclusive expo "Unfinished Business" Consoles never had one oficially. TR1 for consoles had music though.

TR2 had better resolution on PC than on PSX. TR2 also got an exclusive expo por PC (only) "The Golden Mask" (not available for PSX). TR2 wasn't launched to Saturn due to hardware limitations.

TR3 was launched at the same time on windows and PSX. So nothing rushed or poor. TR3 had many bugs corrected with a patch via windows. Discs from PSX were never corrected. They had to burn new disks with "golden" editions for PSX to "fix it". TR3 as the previous also got their expo "The Last Artifact" only for PC not for PSX.

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

People care, like OP, as you can notice it was not me who started the topic in that regard.

I've never said you started the topic. Lots of people will and/or won't care about different issues.

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

What you like is the poor version of the game that have a broken feature working just as cosmetic (the saves) and to fix it they just implemented infinite saves anywhere the player want.

I'm kinda tired of your constant misinterpretation and misunderstanding about what I do type or like. I just pointed out about the irrelevance that crystals suppose because they won't grant the player with more saves or anything. They will just heal Lara.
We don't know whether crystals will remain on TRIII remastered but in the case they do we have tools like ignore, mods and/or selfcontrol to not use them. Period.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Dgo:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

You made it look as "better". I may chosen the "wrong term" but it was in that regard

Disagreed. I've never intented to make something look better than the another.
I've literally said both have their pros and cons.

And that's actually your flawed interpretation because you don't make the correct use of punctuation such as the quotation marks. Due to that you are trying to put things on my mouth I've never pronounced. I've never said or implied that. Read the whole thread again and maybe you can figure it out.

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Because PC TRs were poor rushed ports so much the PC TRs even show the crystals but these mean nothing.

That's pretty false and quite subjective. See? You are the one speaking about which platform is superior derailing the thread and even there you are mistaken.

Some examples:

TR1 was released first for Saturn and shortly after ported to both PC and PSX. TR1 for PC got an exclusive expo "Unfinished Business" Consoles never had one oficially. TR1 for consoles had music though.

TR2 had better resolution on PC than on PSX. TR2 also got an exclusive expo por PC (only) "The Golden Mask" (not available for PSX). TR2 wasn't launched to Saturn due to hardware limitations.

TR3 was launched at the same time on windows and PSX. So nothing rushed or poor. TR3 had many bugs corrected with a patch via windows. Discs from PSX were never corrected. They had to burn new disks with "golden" editions for PSX to "fix it". TR3 as the previous also got their expo "The Last Artifact" only for PC not for PSX.

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

People care, like OP, as you can notice it was not me who started the topic in that regard.

I've never said you started the topic. Lots of people will and/or won't care about different issues.

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

What you like is the poor version of the game that have a broken feature working just as cosmetic (the saves) and to fix it they just implemented infinite saves anywhere the player want.

I'm kinda tired of your constant misinterpretation and misunderstanding about what I do type or like. I just pointed out about the irrelevance that crystals suppose because they won't grant the player with more saves or anything. They will just heal Lara.
We don't know whether crystals will remain on TRIII remastered but in the case they do we have tools like ignore, mods and/or selfcontrol to not use them. Period.

The port being poor is not false and the "not working crystals" is just a part of that

About "no one cares" I jusst stated I was not the one that started the topic as in "I am not the only one that cares" (and I am absolutelly sure it is not only we both, OP and me, that cares), your statement about thaat is the false one.

You made the joke with the icecream as in "I like it with infinite saves everywhere" . . in regard to what? Am I supposed to understand it was to something else other than what was being talk about (the infinite saves vs original saves only through crystals)?
Sorry but that is on you not on me if you meant something else.

[Omnipotencia]

i prefer the limited saves, if the game doesnt limit me i am just gonna abuse the save system, when the game limits me i actually preserves saves find where the secrets are cause they have save crystals and actually play the levels, there is a reason i find many of the secrets in tomb raider 3 yet the secrets in 2 i didnt care for there is also a reason i can beat 3 in like 40saves compared to tomb raider 2 which i beat in like 351 saves hell tomb raider 1 i had like 250+ just give the options for ps1 save style, the comunity patch has this for tomb raider 1 and tomb raider 3 and even fixes the prison levels. if i could i would have added save crystals to all 3 tomb raiders but sadly i dont think that can be a thing unless you made 1 and 2 on the tomb raider 3 engine,

still i'll wait for comunity patched and trandom patched versions until then i already have better versions except 3 which doesn't have windowed mode which means i cant stream it, i'll just stick to 2 and 1 as well as the countless custom maps which i am still playing, if i find a fix for 3 this will be unneeded

[Allu13]

Easiest would be just "save anywhere, anytime". TR2 never had crystals in it so how would they work there?

I think modern checkpoints would be interesting to discuss. That would make it spaced-out and certain that the game is saved at certain points (for example, at the top of Opera House after the ladder, before the collapsing roof). Then again, it's a current thought.