This is a frustrating game, but not for the reasons you'd think.

[EagleSteelman]

So right off the bat, I'm going to say I actually like this game a lot more than Snowrunner.

It delivers a lot more on a pure off road driving experience. I never liked the focus of the mudrunner series on hauling heavy equipment. I want to drive small trucks and buggies over terrain and not follow trails and roads.

In this way, expeditions delivered exactly what I was looking for.

That said, I the the reason why this game won't take off is simply QoL aspects. If I want to chase a particular upgrade or unlock, I have to search through multiple menus and lists, and sometimes I can't even find the mission.

It's also notoriously unforgiving and difficult. I've spent an hour trying to drag a truck in the wrong direction. One wrong move and without realizing it, you spent an hour on a mission and you've run out of fuel. And it's not like Mudrunner where you can easily just spend more time sending a recovery truck. Especially if you mistakenly only took one truck with you.

Route planning is extremely difficult too. Especially with both much of the map covered in black, and the minimap lacking indication of passability of certain passes.

Another important aspect is the goals themselves. Ultimately it's a point destination game, which can be fine, but especially when the point obj is to place an object that you were never told you needed (contracts) or exploring a certain area, it's honestly just a big disappointment. Not being able to skip the "explore the area"s is really annoying. I don't want to fly a slow and boring drone for 2-3 minutes filling up a progress bar.

Some changes that would go a long way:
"Racing" or time based objectives - follow path, best time wins. Especially integrating this with online co-op would be fun.
Mission pathing - give me an idea of potential paths the game intends for me to take on a mission. The hard/fun part is obstacles, not path making in the dark.
Pull from garage at base - if I forgot to add a truck, let me spec one out for fuel or recovery duty.
Persistent progress - let me return to HQ while contract progress remains saved.
Menu QoL - show me exactly where the mission I need to complete for an unlock is located.
Pass/climb/path beacons - show me where the game intends a player to be able to drive through or not. If I want to get tricky with shortcuts I'll do so, otherwise I don't want to spend an hour trying to shove a truck where the game doesn't intend one to be able to be shoved.
More mud and terrain deformation, especially in Carpathians.
Dial back the sadism just a bit more. If I want brutality I'll go play Elden Ring or something. (I won't because I'm a casual who works for a living)

I doubt with sales as they've been, and the economy as it is, that anything will change, but this is by far the best off road driving physics engine out there, and I really don't care to go back to Snowrunner, and I hope they salvage this game.

[Rragar]

Why propose racing at all in a game that is designed to be slow-paced, where it's consistently a bad idea to go fast, and where multiplayer is going to be cooperative instead of competitive?

Now, the bits about returning to HQ and pulling from garage: what you are proposing here is that they remove the "expeditions" element from an expeditions game. The whole premise about an expedition is that you have to pre-prepare, that you carry limited resources, and that you have to get your job done despite this.

[d.]

I think difficulty in this game is bad.
Original Spintires was hard because once you mess up the roads it was done; there was no map switch to auto fix them.
Mudrunner was pretty good, SnowRunner had multi map switches and that was great, you could plan and strategize. Here it's like a minigame (did they work out the bridges bugs yet?)

Here I just felt like slipping on rock with no purchase constantly and it just didn't make for a good time. There was no Mud-Battle compared to rock battle.
Mudrunner?
Rockrunner.

[EagleSteelman]

Originally posted by Rragar:

Why propose racing at all in a game that is designed to be slow-paced, where it's consistently a bad idea to go fast, and where multiplayer is going to be cooperative instead of competitive?

Now, the bits about returning to HQ and pulling from garage: what you are proposing here is that they remove the "expeditions" element from an expeditions game. The whole premise about an expedition is that you have to pre-prepare, that you carry limited resources, and that you have to get your job done despite this.

Because the purpose of a game is to be fun.

Racing is fun.

It's a vehicle game engine. It's literally the lowest hanging fruit.

[Malefice]

There's a whole bunch of little improvements that would help but I don't think racing is one of them.

I'm fine with the difficulty and the navigation, but I really don't like failing a mission because I ran out of fuel with no possibility of bail out. Maybe add an emergency fuel drop, at the cost that makes you avoid doing it.

I agree the explore an area mission is rubbish at the moment. I would add an overlay to the map so you could see where you had explored and where you missed.

I would make finding upgrades either like Snowrunner, where you just have to get to them. Or I would add proper crafting where you could find wrecked trucks on the map and drag them back to base to gain materials to turn into upgrades.

The biggest problem for me is the lack of engagement with the missions. I'd like to see more of a story line with all missions leading to a satisfying outcome. And I think some basic cut scenes / voice work would go a long way, kind of like Tropico does for city builders.

[Rragar]

Originally posted by EagleSteelman:

Originally posted by Rragar:

Why propose racing at all in a game that is designed to be slow-paced, where it's consistently a bad idea to go fast, and where multiplayer is going to be cooperative instead of competitive?

Now, the bits about returning to HQ and pulling from garage: what you are proposing here is that they remove the "expeditions" element from an expeditions game. The whole premise about an expedition is that you have to pre-prepare, that you carry limited resources, and that you have to get your job done despite this.

Because the purpose of a game is to be fun.

Racing is fun.

It's a vehicle game engine. It's literally the lowest hanging fruit.

This is as stupid as saying that a toaster that works exactly as intended, is bad because you wanted to vacuum the floors with it and it can't do that. Or like saying that a Ferrari is bad because it can't tow trailers.

If you find racing fun, why didn't you buy a racing game instead? There's lots of racing games out there.

I bought this game because it's about problem-solving and it provides exactly that. Racing games bore me so I don't buy racing games, nor do I go to their forums to tell them that they made a bad product because it lacks the problem-solving engagement that I find fun.

[Simon Draco]

Originally posted by d.:

Mudrunner?
Rockrunner.

You say that like an insult but it's actually a compliment. As an australian who used to go on 4wd trips with my cousin(in rocky and bushy terrain) in smaller scout vehicles not big hulking trucks I've been craving something like this.

Honestly just playing this I feel like it's a miracle this game even exists. It's exactly what I wanted.

Also I think Cliffrunner is a more apt title.

[Rragar]

Originally posted by Simon Draco:

Originally posted by d.:

Mudrunner?
Rockrunner.

You say that like an insult but it's actually a compliment. As an australian who used to go on 4wd trips with my cousin(in rocky and bushy terrain) in smaller scout vehicles not big hulking trucks I've been craving something like this.

Honestly just playing this I feel like it's a miracle this game even exists. It's exactly what I wanted.

Also I think Cliffrunner is a more apt title.

That's the whole thing. Expeditions wasn't made for everyone. It was not made for people who "like car games in general". It was made for people who wanted a full off-road vehicle experience revolving around scout vehicles, in more extreme terrain, with expeditionary elements, and based around pre-planning and technical problem-solving.

It was not made for people who want to drive around on pre-prepared dirt trails that have been cleared of rocks and obstructions and who don't want to have to think about how much fuel they need to get something done, nor was it made for people who don't want to have to study maps or do visual reconnaissance to plan a route that can be used by their vehicle.

[d.]

Originally posted by Rragar:

Originally posted by Simon Draco:

You say that like an insult but it's actually a compliment. As an australian who used to go on 4wd trips with my cousin(in rocky and bushy terrain) in smaller scout vehicles not big hulking trucks I've been craving something like this.

Honestly just playing this I feel like it's a miracle this game even exists. It's exactly what I wanted.

Also I think Cliffrunner is a more apt title.

That's the whole thing. Expeditions wasn't made for everyone. It was not made for people who "like car games in general". It was made for people who wanted a full off-road vehicle experience revolving around scout vehicles, in more extreme terrain, with expeditionary elements, and based around pre-planning and technical problem-solving.

It was not made for people who want to drive around on pre-prepared dirt trails that have been cleared of rocks and obstructions and who don't want to have to think about how much fuel they need to get something done, nor was it made for people who don't want to have to study maps or do visual reconnaissance to plan a route that can be used by their vehicle.

That's a wrong take my man.
I've finished Spintires, MudRunner, and SnowRunner. Probably have ~500 hours between those.
Spintires was brutal on fuel economy and unfixable roads. SnowRunner you just had to switch maps to reset them.
This game just slaps different.

[Rragar]

Originally posted by d.:

Originally posted by Rragar:

That's the whole thing. Expeditions wasn't made for everyone. It was not made for people who "like car games in general". It was made for people who wanted a full off-road vehicle experience revolving around scout vehicles, in more extreme terrain, with expeditionary elements, and based around pre-planning and technical problem-solving.

It was not made for people who want to drive around on pre-prepared dirt trails that have been cleared of rocks and obstructions and who don't want to have to think about how much fuel they need to get something done, nor was it made for people who don't want to have to study maps or do visual reconnaissance to plan a route that can be used by their vehicle.

That's a wrong take my man.
I've finished Spintires, MudRunner, and SnowRunner. Probably have ~500 hours between those.
Spintires was brutal on fuel economy and unfixable roads. SnowRunner you just had to switch maps to reset them.
This game just slaps different.

Did you quote the right post?

[d.]

Originally posted by Rragar:

Did you quote the right post?

Not at all lol.

[Sethioz]

Originally posted by EagleSteelman:

So right off the bat, I'm going to say I actually like this game a lot more than Snowrunner.

It delivers a lot more on a pure off road driving experience. I never liked the focus of the mudrunner series on hauling heavy equipment. I want to drive small trucks and buggies over terrain and not follow trails and roads.

In this way, expeditions delivered exactly what I was looking for.

That said, I the the reason why this game won't take off is simply QoL aspects. If I want to chase a particular upgrade or unlock, I have to search through multiple menus and lists, and sometimes I can't even find the mission.

It's also notoriously unforgiving and difficult. I've spent an hour trying to drag a truck in the wrong direction. One wrong move and without realizing it, you spent an hour on a mission and you've run out of fuel. And it's not like Mudrunner where you can easily just spend more time sending a recovery truck. Especially if you mistakenly only took one truck with you.

Route planning is extremely difficult too. Especially with both much of the map covered in black, and the minimap lacking indication of passability of certain passes.

Another important aspect is the goals themselves. Ultimately it's a point destination game, which can be fine, but especially when the point obj is to place an object that you were never told you needed (contracts) or exploring a certain area, it's honestly just a big disappointment. Not being able to skip the "explore the area"s is really annoying. I don't want to fly a slow and boring drone for 2-3 minutes filling up a progress bar.

Some changes that would go a long way:
"Racing" or time based objectives - follow path, best time wins. Especially integrating this with online co-op would be fun.
Mission pathing - give me an idea of potential paths the game intends for me to take on a mission. The hard/fun part is obstacles, not path making in the dark.
Pull from garage at base - if I forgot to add a truck, let me spec one out for fuel or recovery duty.
Persistent progress - let me return to HQ while contract progress remains saved.
Menu QoL - show me exactly where the mission I need to complete for an unlock is located.
Pass/climb/path beacons - show me where the game intends a player to be able to drive through or not. If I want to get tricky with shortcuts I'll do so, otherwise I don't want to spend an hour trying to shove a truck where the game doesn't intend one to be able to be shoved.
More mud and terrain deformation, especially in Carpathians.
Dial back the sadism just a bit more. If I want brutality I'll go play Elden Ring or something. (I won't because I'm a casual who works for a living)

I doubt with sales as they've been, and the economy as it is, that anything will change, but this is by far the best off road driving physics engine out there, and I really don't care to go back to Snowrunner, and I hope they salvage this game.

all the things you described are caused due lack of awareness and ability to plan ahead.

whole idea of expeditions is to prepare for the mission. i completed all main expeditions and never ran out of fuel or failed in any other way.

towing truck in wrong direction -- just WHY? don't you know how to open map and look where you're going?

blacked out map is there for a reason, you must first explore it. whole idea is to use freeroam with a radar truck and discover entire map. this is always the first thing i did in all franchise games, i first explored the map and then started doing missions. exploring is part of the game concept.

why you fly a drone for 2-3 minutes, if you can just take additional truck with radar and do it in 10 seconds? not only radar removes the blacked out areas, it also marks all POIs on map within the radar range.
my first goal was to unlock the radar module and then i started scanning areas with radar.

only thing i agree with, is that menus are bit confusing and complicated. for example when you're about to go on expeditions, then in "deploy" screen it doesn't show tooltips, search zones nor explore zones nor anything else, it only has limited icons, so i have to back out of the menu and check the mission before i click deploy to see where is what on the map.
some side requests can be annoying aswell as there's not enough info and it doesn't tell you in which order you have to do things.
like in some mission it says "requires light beacon" but it doesn't say if you have to buy it or if they supply it and where to pick it up, all that appears as same type of icons and you have to drive to it to find out whetever it's a pick-up or drop-off location.

other stuff you said, is only annoying to you because you don't plan ahead and don't pay attention to requirements. you said you like this type of game more than previous games in franchise, but whole idea of expeditions is to do the things you find annoying. they designed it on purpose, it's kind of a "vehicular-puzzle" game.
you need to find your own path and style. it's your job to analyze the mission/s you're going for and take appropriate equipment with you (fuel, radar, powerful rescue truck, cargo truck, repair points ..etc).
when i'm going on exploration mission, i always take 4 trucks and drone operator who can trade. i usually take 2 radar trucks and 2 other trucks that can carry more fuel. i spread them across the spawns, so i can easily explore entire map with minimal time.