A brief question about the ending.

[Grandpa Crack Pipe]

I'm still unsure of exactly what Polle means when he asks "If all of this is true, why are you still so concerned with him?"

Does he mean that Jimmy doesn't need to keep being so worried, since he already knows what he needs to do (put Curly in the pod)?

[Timbermaw]

I thought he'd use that as an excuse to kill curly and use the pod himself, as that phrase would make him immune to becoming a bad person.

However, as it turns out he put curly in the cryo and killed himself. I guess he used that phrase as some sort of a guide to redemption. "Despite all I did before, I still did the right thing and saved Curly."

Polle questioned Jimmy because he was delaying his decision. Jimmy knew what had to be done, and Polle made him stop running away and face it.

[Vokoca]

The way I understood it, it was a direct response to the "our worst moments don't define us" line that keeps getting paraphrased during the story, and it is also what Jimmy is in the middle of repeating before Polle stops him.

If I remember correctly, Anya is the first one to introduce this line. I think that more than anything, she is trying to convince herself - that despite what Jimmy did to her (the implied SA), there is still something in him to like. It applies to Curly as well (under the narrative that he was the one to crash the ship), and Jimmy latches onto it as well to absolve himself of guilt. But it never is quite true. Anya herself can't believe it as she is shown to be clearly afraid of Jimmy multiple times throughout the game, it doesn't apply for Curly because that whole story was a lie, and it doesn't make Jimmy any less of a horrible human being for what he has done.

If he had truly believed that the worst moments don't define a person, there would be no reason for him to still cling onto Curly as his ideal. He wouldn't need to feel like that he has to become Curly, become the Capitain, to "fix everything". He wouldn't still be trying to avoid responsibility and would be able to not only face what he has done, but who he is himself. Instead, he still wants to become someone else, someone who in his eyes is much better than him.

Hence, "If all of this is true, why are you still so concerned with him?" - Jimmy is still the same person he was at the beginning of the story. He is still just as jealous of Curly and his position and skills that he attempts to take credit for saving the crew (Curly), and he is still so cowardly that even at the very end he still runs away from taking responsibility and shoots himself instead.

I don't think that scene painted Jimmy in a positive light at all. If anything, I feel like it was there as a final, complete condemnation of his character.

[Timbermaw]

Originally posted by Vokoca:

I don't think that scene painted Jimmy in a positive light at all. If anything, I feel like it was there as a final, complete condemnation of his character.

Would it be better had he killed curly and used the cryo chamber himself?

[Vokoca]

Originally posted by Timbermaw:

Originally posted by Vokoca:

I don't think that scene painted Jimmy in a positive light at all. If anything, I feel like it was there as a final, complete condemnation of his character.

Would it be better had he killed curly and used the cryo chamber himself?

No, I do think that was the one thing he has done that was actually good. But the problem is, what was it motivated by? Was it really just to save someone, or was it to feel good about himself that he has "fixed" something? And then he removes himself from the picture, so what happens after is no longer his problem, essentially running away from the fallout.

To be clear I don't think there was much else he could've done at that point, it was a kind of doomed if you do, doomed if you don't situation. All I'm saying is that I don't think the game was really praising Jimmy for anything he has done, so I can't see the scene with Polle as being there to encourage him to do anything. I feel like if the point was that he had truly became a better man at the end, they wouldn't include the dialogue where he still ends up taking credit for everything, switching from "we did it" to "I did it".

That said this is just my subjective read of the scene. I agree that there are multiple ways to interpret it, and you can definitely look at it less cynically.

[Timbermaw]

I agree it doesn't make him a hero or anything to an outside viewer, but perhaps in his mind he did something worthy of praise.

It's also strange how the game labels the timeline as "6 hours until judgement" towards the end. Perchance jimmy started cultivating the thought that this was a test and that he would be judged for his actions after this life, and tried a final act at redemption.

[bidet]

Originally posted by Vokoca:

Originally posted by Timbermaw:

Would it be better had he killed curly and used the cryo chamber himself?

No, I do think that was the one thing he has done that was actually good. But the problem is, what was it motivated by? Was it really just to save someone, or was it to feel good about himself that he has "fixed" something? And then he removes himself from the picture, so what happens after is no longer his problem, essentially running away from the fallout.

To be clear I don't think there was much else he could've done at that point, it was a kind of doomed if you do, doomed if you don't situation. All I'm saying is that I don't think the game was really praising Jimmy for anything he has done, so I can't see the scene with Polle as being there to encourage him to do anything. I feel like if the point was that he had truly became a better man at the end, they wouldn't include the dialogue where he still ends up taking credit for everything, switching from "we did it" to "I did it".

That said this is just my subjective read of the scene. I agree that there are multiple ways to interpret it, and you can definitely look at it less cynically.

I actually felt the exact opposite. I found Jimmy's decision to save Curly at the end self-serving/selfish. The reason he saved Curly isn't because it's actually "right". The reason he did it is because he knew he couldn't live with the guilt of what he did. So he used that as an excuse to convince himself he did the "right" thing. In truth, it was cowardly, which is the epitome of his entire being, and the driving force of literally all his actions.

In reality, all he managed to accomplish is have everyone killed, and leave Curly a cripple for life, suffering until he dies. He chose to escape this fact. Jimmy was clearly a mentally ill person for causing all this in the first place. This story is 100% a tragedy through-and-through.

You have to ask yourself: What is taking responsibility in this situation? Is it leaving Curly to live in his deformed state for the rest of his life? Or is it to find the strength to live with what you've done, and attempt to grow from it?

EDIT: I just realized I misread some of your comment and you pointed out essentially the same thing I did. My bad.

[Angel]

I saw it as basically calling Jimmy out on his fixation over Curly while actively ignoring the fact that he raped Anya. The guilt for that act is nowhere to be found. We see his fear of the baby, maybe representing his fear of impending consequences for his actions, but we don't see guilt over the rape itself, which was his original transgression. If Jimmy really feels bad, and if he's really ready to take responsibility... then why is he ignoring the elephant in the room? Why is he so concerned with *him* and not *her*?

[casualghost]

Originally posted by Vokoca:

The way I understood it, it was a direct response to the "our worst moments don't define us" line that keeps getting paraphrased during the story, and it is also what Jimmy is in the middle of repeating before Polle stops him.

If I remember correctly, Anya is the first one to introduce this line. I think that more than anything, she is trying to convince herself - that despite what Jimmy did to her (the implied SA), there is still something in him to like. It applies to Curly as well (under the narrative that he was the one to crash the ship), and Jimmy latches onto it as well to absolve himself of guilt. But it never is quite true. Anya herself can't believe it as she is shown to be clearly afraid of Jimmy multiple times throughout the game, it doesn't apply for Curly because that whole story was a lie, and it doesn't make Jimmy any less of a horrible human being for what he has done.

If he had truly believed that the worst moments don't define a person, there would be no reason for him to still cling onto Curly as his ideal. He wouldn't need to feel like that he has to become Curly, become the Capitain, to "fix everything". He wouldn't still be trying to avoid responsibility and would be able to not only face what he has done, but who he is himself. Instead, he still wants to become someone else, someone who in his eyes is much better than him.

Hence, "If all of this is true, why are you still so concerned with him?" - Jimmy is still the same person he was at the beginning of the story. He is still just as jealous of Curly and his position and skills that he attempts to take credit for saving the crew (Curly), and he is still so cowardly that even at the very end he still runs away from taking responsibility and shoots himself instead.

I don't think that scene painted Jimmy in a positive light at all. If anything, I feel like it was there as a final, complete condemnation of his character.

this all made so much sense, i admire you for your dissection and understanding of these characters, you helped me realise new things and shed new light on that scene. i interpreted the scene as that little tiny voice in the back of his mind, reminding him, that after everything he done, after trying to convince himself he was fixing everything, and that his worst moment didn't make him a bad person, he still raped anya. he still had to respect for her. he still refused to believe that was something he had to take responsibility for, because even after he cries to his imagined curly, saying he's sorry and all that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, there was STILL that flash of text: "take responsibility" and then the horse fetus scene commences. almost trying to remind him of that one last little thing he's been ignoring this entire time.

that one scene before he meets polle on that mountain of mouthwash, he walks through a hallway of raining id cards. if you look closely, there's only the id cards of swansea, daisuke, and himself. there might've been some curly id's up there, but i personally didn't see any. i truly believe jimmy is a misogynist freak, who had no respect for anya in any shape or form. we all know he's a terrible person, and i want to go a step further and say i strongly believe he is an nonredeemable piece of steaming ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. literally.

it hurts me to say it but i don't think many of the men on board respected anya, besides daisuke and MAYBE swansea, but then again it didn't seem like swansea had respect for anybody, regardless of gender. sure curly expressed concern for anya at times, but he lashed out at her when he thought she would want to hurt herself at the first sign of trouble, he disregarded anya's plea for help and instead went to jimmy to console him and say "we can take care of this. you'll get through this," as if rape was a thing you could escape, get "through" and take care of. because there is no redemption for a rapist.

[casualghost]

dammit it censored horse sh1t

Originally posted by casualghost:

Originally posted by Vokoca:

The way I understood it, it was a direct response to the "our worst moments don't define us" line that keeps getting paraphrased during the story, and it is also what Jimmy is in the middle of repeating before Polle stops him.

If I remember correctly, Anya is the first one to introduce this line. I think that more than anything, she is trying to convince herself - that despite what Jimmy did to her (the implied SA), there is still something in him to like. It applies to Curly as well (under the narrative that he was the one to crash the ship), and Jimmy latches onto it as well to absolve himself of guilt. But it never is quite true. Anya herself can't believe it as she is shown to be clearly afraid of Jimmy multiple times throughout the game, it doesn't apply for Curly because that whole story was a lie, and it doesn't make Jimmy any less of a horrible human being for what he has done.

If he had truly believed that the worst moments don't define a person, there would be no reason for him to still cling onto Curly as his ideal. He wouldn't need to feel like that he has to become Curly, become the Capitain, to "fix everything". He wouldn't still be trying to avoid responsibility and would be able to not only face what he has done, but who he is himself. Instead, he still wants to become someone else, someone who in his eyes is much better than him.

Hence, "If all of this is true, why are you still so concerned with him?" - Jimmy is still the same person he was at the beginning of the story. He is still just as jealous of Curly and his position and skills that he attempts to take credit for saving the crew (Curly), and he is still so cowardly that even at the very end he still runs away from taking responsibility and shoots himself instead.

I don't think that scene painted Jimmy in a positive light at all. If anything, I feel like it was there as a final, complete condemnation of his character.

this all made so much sense, i admire you for your dissection and understanding of these characters, you helped me realise new things and shed new light on that scene. i interpreted the scene as that little tiny voice in the back of his mind, reminding him, that after everything he done, after trying to convince himself he was fixing everything, and that his worst moment didn't make him a bad person, he still raped anya. he still had to respect for her. he still refused to believe that was something he had to take responsibility for, because even after he cries to his imagined curly, saying he's sorry and all that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, there was STILL that flash of text: "take responsibility" and then the horse fetus scene commences. almost trying to remind him of that one last little thing he's been ignoring this entire time.

that one scene before he meets polle on that mountain of mouthwash, he walks through a hallway of raining id cards. if you look closely, there's only the id cards of swansea, daisuke, and himself. there might've been some curly id's up there, but i personally didn't see any. i truly believe jimmy is a misogynist freak, who had no respect for anya in any shape or form. we all know he's a terrible person, and i want to go a step further and say i strongly believe he is an nonredeemable piece of steaming ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. literally.

it hurts me to say it but i don't think many of the men on board respected anya, besides daisuke and MAYBE swansea, but then again it didn't seem like swansea had respect for anybody, regardless of gender. sure curly expressed concern for anya at times, but he lashed out at her when he thought she would want to hurt herself at the first sign of trouble, he disregarded anya's plea for help and instead went to jimmy to console him and say "we can take care of this. you'll get through this," as if rape was a thing you could escape, get "through" and take care of. because there is no redemption for a rapist.

[Timbermaw]

Anya love and marriage

[blablaji]

Originally posted by casualghost:

it hurts me to say it but i don't think many of the men on board respected anya, besides daisuke and MAYBE swansea, but then again it didn't seem like swansea had respect for anybody, regardless of gender. sure curly expressed concern for anya at times, but he lashed out at her when he thought she would want to hurt herself at the first sign of trouble, he disregarded anya's plea for help and instead went to jimmy to console him and say "we can take care of this. you'll get through this," as if rape was a thing you could escape, get "through" and take care of. because there is no redemption for a rapist.

I think all the men other than Jimmy cared about Anya, just didn't understand the extent of what was happening.

Daisuke's basically a dumb kid, he just wants to be friends with everyone.

Swansea seems to be trying to console Anya about the situation.
When you walk in on them talking he tries to shut you out of the conversation, to me it felt like he was being protective of her in his own jaded way. Personally I like to think he was saving the cryopod for her, but I don't think there's much evidence for who he wanted to save in particular.

As for Curly, I think he really just doesn't understand. He seems to assume it's just an unplanned pregnancy, that it's something both Anya and Jimmy both need to just work through. That's why he doesn't understand her impulse to hide the gun and why he thinks it's something he can help Jimmy out with rather than a reason to shoot Jimmy out the nearest airlock

[Erstwhile629]

To be honest, I don't think Curly misunderstood. That's just another layer of horror. He decided to let this be a "bros covering for bros" moment, instead of nailing him to the wall about it. He 100% acted like rape was something you could just "talk over".