So did Anya actually got r... or is it something that the community decided happened?

[💗Blaaashyyy💗]

Maybe I didn't paid attention, or maybe it's because I don't like to imagine stuff and instead I wait for people to tell it straight, so that I'm sure they mean what I think they mean, but it seemed to me like the situation might be, that she might jut spent a night with Jim, got pregnant but he didn't wanted her, and that's why she was upset instead of straight up r situation (and he might not have known about the child either and she was afraid to tell him). But again, I might not have been paying attention at the right time. At which moment it's made clear, that this is what happened?

[Something Hank]

Originally posted by Kain:

True, the lack of dream sequences involving it was what really condused me about the rape, even though there are a lot of references throughout his other actions, through dreams, flashbacks or during the 'present', the very lack of anything related to it in his psyche made me believe that he just being violent was a more straightforward conclusion.

But as you and Something Hank pointed out, he never acknowledges her, ever. Which would explain why he never felt guilt and wasn't haunted by it. Which makes it all more ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up. It's crazy that there is never any remorse when it involves here, unlike some guilt when it involves every other male character, that is framed as a bigger event, like it didn't much matter that she died, it was all about Daisuke when he died, or Swansea.

It's a fantastically complicated narrative. As garbage a person Jimmy is, he's probably one of the /best written/ characters we've seen in years. It's honestly amazing.

Hell, I had to have other people point out the smaller subnarratives going on. I didn't even really click on to the sexual assault my first play through until it was laid out, and then I went "OOoooh it's way worse".

[Sir Aurelius of Skalitz]

Originally posted by Blash:

Maybe I didn't paid attention, or maybe it's because I don't like to imagine stuff and instead I wait for people to tell it straight, so that I'm sure they mean what I think they mean, but it seemed to me like the situation might be, that she might jut spent a night with Jim, got pregnant but he didn't wanted her, and that's why she was upset instead of straight up r situation (and he might not have known about the child either and she was afraid to tell him). But again, I might not have been paying attention at the right time. At which moment it's made clear, that this is what happened?

It was never confirmed and this fandom will tweak out if you even begin trying to say he didnt do it. their interactions makes it seem like he was just mean and verbally abusive and didnt want to take care of the kid.

still think its weird how they want her to be a victim so bad so they can project onto her their own little fantasies.

[Kain]

Originally posted by Something Hank:

Originally posted by Kain:

True, the lack of dream sequences involving it was what really condused me about the rape, even though there are a lot of references throughout his other actions, through dreams, flashbacks or during the 'present', the very lack of anything related to it in his psyche made me believe that he just being violent was a more straightforward conclusion.

But as you and Something Hank pointed out, he never acknowledges her, ever. Which would explain why he never felt guilt and wasn't haunted by it. Which makes it all more ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up. It's crazy that there is never any remorse when it involves here, unlike some guilt when it involves every other male character, that is framed as a bigger event, like it didn't much matter that she died, it was all about Daisuke when he died, or Swansea.

It's a fantastically complicated narrative. As garbage a person Jimmy is, he's probably one of the /best written/ characters we've seen in years. It's honestly amazing.

Hell, I had to have other people point out the smaller subnarratives going on. I didn't even really click on to the sexual assault my first play through until it was laid out, and then I went "OOoooh it's way worse".

He is, actually the whole story is pretty amazing with every character having a lot of hidden depths, at it does use the framing narrative of the unreliable narrator very well. More importaantly, is how it gives a lot of subtle hints to pick up.

I began fully believing that he was just violent because even though the fact she was pregnant and they had no chemistry at all was a huge red flag, the lack of any hallucinations involving the rape was throwing me off, but understanding how he actually feels about her, or better, doesn't feel at all, it becomes clearer.

[Fodder]

One thing that deeply concerns me is that, in assuming an assault on Anya, many people are dehumanizing Jimmy and distancing themselves from him. What makes this story so impactful is our ability to empathize with the various characters, recognize their flaws in ourselves, and try to avoid the potential pitfalls in our own lives. There are a ton of great themes; legitimate struggles, that all of the characters grapple with, and it's unfortunate that one assumption robs so much oxygen from the characters' other stories.

[Kain]

Originally posted by Fodder:

One thing that deeply concerns me is that, in assuming an assault on Anya, many people are dehumanizing Jimmy and distancing themselves from him. What makes this story so impactful is our ability to empathize with the various characters, recognize their flaws in ourselves, and try to avoid the potential pitfalls in our own lives. There are a ton of great themes; legitimate struggles, that all of the characters grapple with, and it's unfortunate that one assumption robs so much oxygen from the characters' other stories.

I don't think people are dehumanizing him, his actions are simply being judged for what they are, monstrous regardless if he was a rapist or merely violent. We don't have feel empathy with a rapist either. It might help us understand the why, but honestly, does it matter why he is a rapist? Or that he beat the crap out or Curly because he was taking out his frustrations on him and blaming him for his own failures.

[Sir Aurelius of Skalitz]

Originally posted by Kain:

Originally posted by Fodder:

One thing that deeply concerns me is that, in assuming an assault on Anya, many people are dehumanizing Jimmy and distancing themselves from him. What makes this story so impactful is our ability to empathize with the various characters, recognize their flaws in ourselves, and try to avoid the potential pitfalls in our own lives. There are a ton of great themes; legitimate struggles, that all of the characters grapple with, and it's unfortunate that one assumption robs so much oxygen from the characters' other stories.

I don't think people are dehumanizing him, his actions are simply being judged for what they are, monstrous regardless if he was a rapist or merely violent. We don't have feel empathy with a rapist either. It might help us understand the why, but honestly, does it matter why he is a rapist? Or that he beat the crap out or Curly because he was taking out his frustrations on him and blaming him for his own failures.

1.people are dehumanizing him

and 2. youre basically saying ignorance is bliss cuz it just easier to hate somthing you dont understand or know

[Kain]

Originally posted by Brother Aurelius:

Originally posted by Kain:

I don't think people are dehumanizing him, his actions are simply being judged for what they are, monstrous regardless if he was a rapist or merely violent. We don't have feel empathy with a rapist either. It might help us understand the why, but honestly, does it matter why he is a rapist? Or that he beat the crap out or Curly because he was taking out his frustrations on him and blaming him for his own failures.

1.people are dehumanizing him

and 2. youre basically saying ignorance is bliss cuz it just easier to hate somthing you dont understand or know

I haven't said that at all. It's just your interpretation. My point is that you can know something is bad for what it is and some actions can be explained, but not justified by the context.

And even if some people are dehumanizing him, I'm not and did my best to understand him and the story being told.

As for who really are, well, I'm not a mind reader but a lot of people I interacted here seemed to have done their best to understand his actions too.

[Sir Aurelius of Skalitz]

Originally posted by Kain:

Originally posted by Brother Aurelius:

1.people are dehumanizing him

and 2. youre basically saying ignorance is bliss cuz it just easier to hate somthing you dont understand or know

I haven't said that at all. It's just your interpretation. My point is that you can know something is bad for what it is and some actions can be explained, but not justified by the context.

And even if some people are dehumanizing him, I'm not and did my best to understand him and the story being told.

As for who really are, well, I'm not a mind reader but a lot of people I interacted here seemed to have done their best to understand his actions too.

I didnt say you said that but how else is anyone going to interpret this?

Originally posted by Kain:

Originally posted by Fodder:

but honestly, does it matter why he is a rapist? Or that he beat the crap out or Curly because he was taking out his frustrations on him and blaming him for his own failures.

[Kain]

Originally posted by Brother Aurelius:

Originally posted by Kain:

I haven't said that at all. It's just your interpretation. My point is that you can know something is bad for what it is and some actions can be explained, but not justified by the context.

And even if some people are dehumanizing him, I'm not and did my best to understand him and the story being told.

As for who really are, well, I'm not a mind reader but a lot of people I interacted here seemed to have done their best to understand his actions too.

I didnt say you said that but how else is anyone going to interpret this?

I mean, it's true, it's nice if you want to make a character study and research someone's psychology. But if you're going to judge someone for rape, the why is much less important than if the person actually did it.

I can't judge someone if they can't empathize with Jimmy and I don't think it destroy the game's message, as I think understanding why a character like Anya remains silent is more relevant to me and thinking about a way to help and connect with someone in her position could yield better results in stopping those situations to happen again.

[Fodder]

Originally posted by Kain:

I mean, it's true, it's nice if you want to make a character study and research someone's psychology. But if you're going to judge someone for rape, the why is much less important than if the person actually did it.

I can't judge someone if they can't empathize with Jimmy and I don't think it destroy the game's message, as I think understanding why a character like Anya remains silent is more relevant to me and thinking about a way to help and connect with someone in her position could yield better results in stopping those situations to happen again.

Unfortunately, you have perfectly illustrated my point. By focusing in on Anya, assuming she was raped, blaming an assault that may not have even happened on Jimmy, people avoid trying to understand Jimmy's (and Anya's) motivations and what led to this disastrous chain of events that leads to the demise of an entire crew.

Why did she stay silent? Maybe because there was nothing to talk about. Maybe she killed herself because she finally saw herself for what she was, so let me catch you up on the story you seem to have missed. She wanted desperately to become a medical provider, but she failed a test to get into university 8 times. She got her Pony Express Medical Cert, the lowest of low bars, just to have something in the field, while she tries to earn enough money to take another test to get into university. Unfortunately, while doing this, she not only gets pregnant, but she finds out that she is about to lose this job as well. Her last shot at doing the thing she thinks she loves is evaporating in this moment. However, perhaps the final straw is when she realizes just how incapable of her dream job she really is. Here in the aftermath of the crash, Anya is faced with a true nature of the thing she feels so passionate about pursuing, and she can't stomach it. She can't even feed Curly his meds, let alone properly care for his dire medical needs. She sits with a gun in hand, realizing she has wasted her life pursuing a passion and a dream that will never be. She's pregnant. She's about to lose her job. The man that impregnated her can barely take care of himself and is about to lose his job. Neither have any prospects for the future. She locks the door to the medbay, prepares to put a bullet in Curly, the thing that represents her failed ambitions. But now Daisuke shows up out of the blue. He tries to stop her, and in the process, she fatally wounds him too. After that, perhaps she takes responsibility for her own failed story. It could be argued that Anya's is the one death for which Jimmy holds almost no responsibility (he ordered Daisuke up through the shaft to stop her rather than going himself).

...but hey, why allow her that tragic life when we can blame that s-heel, Jimmy, and put her death on him too?

[Sir Aurelius of Skalitz]

Careful now, you start making too much sense and you're not gonna like the responds this community can formulate.

[Kain]

Originally posted by Fodder:

Originally posted by Kain:

I mean, it's true, it's nice if you want to make a character study and research someone's psychology. But if you're going to judge someone for rape, the why is much less important than if the person actually did it.

I can't judge someone if they can't empathize with Jimmy and I don't think it destroy the game's message, as I think understanding why a character like Anya remains silent is more relevant to me and thinking about a way to help and connect with someone in her position could yield better results in stopping those situations to happen again.

Unfortunately, you have perfectly illustrated my point. By focusing in on Anya, assuming she was raped, blaming an assault that may not have even happened on Jimmy, people avoid trying to understand Jimmy's (and Anya's) motivations and what led to this disastrous chain of events that leads to the demise of an entire crew.

Why did she stay silent? Maybe because there was nothing to talk about. Maybe she killed herself because she finally saw herself for what she was, so let me catch you up on the story you seem to have missed. She wanted desperately to become a medical provider, but she failed a test to get into university 8 times. She got her Pony Express Medical Cert, the lowest of low bars, just to have something in the field, while she tries to earn enough money to take another test to get into university. Unfortunately, while doing this, she not only gets pregnant, but she finds out that she is about to lose this job as well. Her last shot at doing the thing she thinks she loves is evaporating in this moment. However, perhaps the final straw is when she realizes just how incapable of her dream job she really is. Here in the aftermath of the crash, Anya is faced with a true nature of the thing she feels so passionate about pursuing, and she can't stomach it. She can't even feed Curly his meds, let alone properly care for his dire medical needs. She sits with a gun in hand, realizing she has wasted her life pursuing a passion and a dream that will never be. She's pregnant. She's about to lose her job. The man that impregnated her can barely take care of himself and is about to lose his job. Neither have any prospects for the future. She locks the door to the medbay, prepares to put a bullet in Curly, the thing that represents her failed ambitions. But now Daisuke shows up out of the blue. He tries to stop her, and in the process, she fatally wounds him too. After that, perhaps she takes responsibility for her own failed story. It could be argued that Anya's is the one death for which Jimmy holds almost no responsibility (he ordered Daisuke up through the shaft to stop her rather than going himself).

...but hey, why allow her that tragic life when we can blame that s-heel, Jimmy, and put her death on him too?

Nope, if you read every comment I made here you'll realize I began by assuming Jimmy was simply violent, specially because I was paying attention at him and trying to figure out why he did the things he did, in fact only recently I merely accepted it was a plausible possibility that he is a rapist and I did it by paying attention of HIS actions and Anya's.

Regarding Anya's life we don't have a lot to really go on. We don't know if for a fact she was a real nurse or not, we only have Jimmy's word. Sure she couldn't feed Curly his medicine maybe it's because she wasn't a real nurse, maybe she just couldn't do it out of trauma of being forced to do something while raped, or any number of reasons we can't be sure. The fact you assume someone wasn't paying attention to a character or couple of characters that were the focus of my attention and so many others is ridiculous.

I know Anya has flaws, EVERYONE in the game has that's the whole point of the game, but if we go by info directly presented by the game, Jimmy and we can come to that conclusion pretty reliably by how he treats Anya differently and very abusive compared every single other character, how irresponsible he is with Daisuke, how he kills Swansey, how he beats the crap out of Curly in one scene while feeding him, how he doesn't want anything with his child and so on. You can create narratives as to why or try to understand him further, but a lot of his own actions still are from a person losing their minds and refusing to takes responsibility.

If your conclusion about the game after playing it is that Jimmy isn't a rapist, then it's fine, but if after direct info shown in the game portraying him as a violent ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ isn't enough, then you simply wasn't paying attention and it has nothing to do with dehumanizing Jimmy

[Sir Aurelius of Skalitz]

Seems like you're giving Anya every excuse you can to make up for her poor character traits while giving Jimmy "almost" none.

[Kain]

I mean, I do think Jimmy's characteristics are worse, I don't see an issue with it since for me the game gives enough evidence. But, if you don't believe so, make your argument at the end of the day this is a game with unreliable narrators and we are asked to fill the blanks on our own.

My only problem here is this whole idea that "people" aren't paying attention, or being biased, or dehumanizing characters. I rather discuss the actual points in the game and see if they are worthy of exploring, that's how my understanding on the game have been slowly changing here with discussions.

[Yasuke]

This entire discussion boils down to people on the non-rape side providing well reasoned arguments and backing it up with evidence, and then the rape side screeching that of course it's rape because the rest of the crew are men and every single man is a rapist and if you disagree with their takes then you're just a rape apologist.