So did Anya actually got r... or is it something that the community decided happened?

[💗Blaaashyyy💗]

Maybe I didn't paid attention, or maybe it's because I don't like to imagine stuff and instead I wait for people to tell it straight, so that I'm sure they mean what I think they mean, but it seemed to me like the situation might be, that she might jut spent a night with Jim, got pregnant but he didn't wanted her, and that's why she was upset instead of straight up r situation (and he might not have known about the child either and she was afraid to tell him). But again, I might not have been paying attention at the right time. At which moment it's made clear, that this is what happened?

[tsunshine.chris]

My question is nature vs nurture. Was Jimmy always insane or did the stress of working for Pony Express drive him to such lengths?

[Iamus]

Publicado originalmente por tsunshine.chris:

My question is nature vs nurture. Was Jimmy always insane or did the stress of working for Pony Express drive him to such lengths?

Didn't Curly say he was troubled on earth?

I am absolutely not saying Jimmy has a personality disorder, but he strongly reminds me of some people who do. (Which may still be a nurture)

[thunda]

Publicado originalmente por CrabNicholson:

Publicado originalmente por thunda:

This gets to the level of speculation that I doubt even the devs were aware of. No way they thought of any of that. Its not that deep. "spiked drink = drugged" is what the logic amounts to in these type of scenarios

The stealth section in the cargo hold representing rape is a stretch. Jimmy sneaking around in the cargo hold is more symbolic of trying to hide his alcoholism by getting drunk in the cargo hold. (The horse represents both Polle, the workplace mascot, and Anya and the pregnancy, the theme tying both of them together being responsibility, and the segment ends with a cheeful-looking Polle offering Jimmy a bottle of mouthwash, IE - Jimmy is afraid of responsibility and copes with alcohol). This is further supported by Jimmy's freak-out at being asked to do everything on the ship instead of "being given time to think".

Okay. Explain how the flashing "BE QUIET" screen when you fail the section fits that, and not Jimmy telling Anya to be quiet during the rape in the sleeping area. Its obvious dude

Explain the quote about the monster being blind, and you cant escape by running (since there's nowhere to run on the ship).

That section is the most direct allegory to the rape. Youre essentially taking on the role of Anya in that section, and the rape horse is Jimmy. Anya tries to silently maneuver away from him on the ship, tries not to anger him etc

[CrabNicholson]

Publicado originalmente por thunda:

Publicado originalmente por CrabNicholson:

The stealth section in the cargo hold representing rape is a stretch. Jimmy sneaking around in the cargo hold is more symbolic of trying to hide his alcoholism by getting drunk in the cargo hold. (The horse represents both Polle, the workplace mascot, and Anya and the pregnancy, the theme tying both of them together being responsibility, and the segment ends with a cheeful-looking Polle offering Jimmy a bottle of mouthwash, IE - Jimmy is afraid of responsibility and copes with alcohol). This is further supported by Jimmy's freak-out at being asked to do everything on the ship instead of "being given time to think".

Okay. Explain how the flashing "BE QUIET" screen when you fail the section fits that, and not Jimmy telling Anya to be quiet during the rape in the sleeping area. Its obvious dude

Explain the quote about the monster being blind, and you cant escape by running (since there's nowhere to run on the ship).

That section is the most direct allegory to the rape. Youre essentially taking on the role of Anya in that section, and the rape horse is Jimmy. Anya tries to silently maneuver away from him on the ship, tries not to anger him etc

This idea is not even internally consistent. Who is trying to be quiet? Is it Jimmy telling Anya to be quiet during a rape or is Anya trying to be quiet while she hides from him so she doesn't get raped? Why is Jimmy in Anya's perspective during his personal trauma sequence? There's no connection between this scene and rape other than that a rapist might conceivably tell a victim to "be quiet" but this phrase is never used anywhere else in the game and it's not a recurring theme or anything alluded to anywhere else.

Look at the basic symbolism of the pony: the pony is a pack animal used for delivering mail. It's the symbol of the company. Their mascot is the pony. The pony mascot has an animatronic and posters across the ship with obnoxious reminders to work harder. Jimmy even jokes about the pony being so pervasive on the ship and invasive in their lives that he's developed a sexual attraction to it. The pony represents work and responsibility. Anya is represented as a horse during trauma sequences. Jimmy resents Anya for getting pregnant. Her pregnancy means he has more responsibilities. Jimmy doesn't like talking to Anya, he is annoyed by her. She constantly asks him to do things for her, often things which are her direct responsibility (like taking care of Curly), she pushes onto him. Jimmy sees Anya as a burden because she always spot-assigns him more things to do. Hence, Anya is a horse. She's a chore. This is a consistent theme of the story, Jimmy's relationship with responsibility. He tries to hide from responsibility. The fact the stealth segment is won by picking up alcohol is clear symbolism: after the crash he is implied to have become an alcoholic who hides from responsibility via alcohol.

[Stealthkibbler]

I do think SA did happen, but the details are vague enough that its kept rather ambiguous, the crew spends more than a year crammed together on that ship, Jimmy is clearly suffering from large self worth issues and is insecure as a result, Anya is the only female onboard the ship. At the time of the pregnancy they had something like 260 days left on their journey just to deliver the cargo. I think that speaks of the horrors that Anya went through knowing that she will have to make the return trip with her newborn, i think this is also what terrified Jimmy so much knowing that he will be trapped with this infant, hes forced to take responsibility so he tries to destroy the ship.

[CrabNicholson]

As an addendum to my above post, you can see the things that Jimmy is traumatized by during his insanity sequences, and the locations and objects that trigger them.

After he crashes the ship, he wanders the hall, and is traumatized by the Polle posters and the Polle animatronic, followed by visions of broken ladders. The Polle posters and their reminders to work harder are ironic reminders that his hard work had been for nothing due to being laid off. The broken ladder is symbolic of his failed dreams of "climbing the ladder" and becoming captain.

Jimmy later on has the stealth segment in the cargo hold (explained above). If it represented Anya's rape, then why would it be in the cargo hold? The cargo hold wasn't even opened during the timeframe when she was allegedly raped. Those who argue for the SA, say it happened in the sleeping quarters, but Jimmy never has a single episode in the sleeping quarters, indicating that there's nothing there for him to feel guilty about.

Jimmy then has a trauma segment in the vents, representing his guilt over Daisuke's death. Daisuke is also represented as a hibiscus flower, due to the pattern on his shirt.

Jimmy has a trauma segment with Swansea, where Swansea stalks him through a graveyard. The graveyard represents Jimmy's grief over the deaths on the ship.

Jimmy has a trauma segment where Polle tells Jimmy he should be more worried about ~someone else~ while he laments over failing Curly. This is implied to represent the foetus, This is followed by a trauma segment involving the foetus. He is guilty over the loss of Anya and the pregnancy.

Jimmy has a trauma segment revolving around Curly and the birthday party, which represents the last time when everyone was alive and happy and things were normal, and it's where he resolves on his mission to """save""" Curly.

So - all of Jimmy's guilt is heavily touched upon in the game, nothing is left out, and his trauma always takes place in a logical location related to that trauma. Except he is mysteriously never involved in anything in the Sleeping Quarters.

The only reason why it seems like Anya was raped is because she's afraid of Jimmy, but this is explainable through other reasons. Other than this, all attempts to tie the game's symbolism to rape are a massive grasp at straws and ignore the more obvious and consistent symbolism in the game.

[thunda]

Nah the horse is obviously a reference to this little pony from Berserk

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gw6uFupLN_U/hq720.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEhCK4FEIIDSFryq4qpAxMIARUAAAAAGAElAADIQj0AgKJD&rs=AOn4CLDUhatAI9Ta6oSvKeBxMb3OLKAIxw

Its even modeled to look like it in the "be quiet" section

thats why in the ultrasound section you find three of the horsies in the womb thingy, with beating hearts. Conceived via struggle snuggle

[CrabNicholson]

Publicado originalmente por thunda:

Nah the horse is obviously a reference to this little pony from Berserk

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gw6uFupLN_U/hq720.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEhCK4FEIIDSFryq4qpAxMIARUAAAAAGAElAADIQj0AgKJD&rs=AOn4CLDUhatAI9Ta6oSvKeBxMb3OLKAIxw

Its even modeled to look like it in the "be quiet" section

thats why in the ultrasound section you find three of the horsies in the womb thingy, with beating hearts. Conceived via struggle snuggle

Oh come on, that is not even from the same author, narrative universe, or country for that matter. Maybe if this were Dark Souls or some other game with lots of berserk references, I would buy it, but I haven't seen one berserk reference in the game.

The horse monster starts haunting you from the moment you crash the ship, it's an increasingly mutated version of the Pony Express mascot.

[KnightofRoyalty]

What other people have said, but also when Anya tells Curly she's pregnant, he reacts with a kind of quiet horror. When she says she's gonna tell him (whoever is the father) Curly begs her to wait, let him sort it out. Which suggests that the father of her baby would react very negatively if he knew she was pregnant.

Then Curly goes to talk to Jimmy, making it clear that Jimmy was the father.

EDIT:

Also when Jimmy is on hes guilt , while Anya herself never got a guilt sequence, her baby did. There's a scene at the end where you come upon a giant blob of flesh with eyes hanging from the ceiling. You have to do an ultrasound to find a horse, representing the baby. The horse is shaking, crying, and seems to be hurting, likely symbolizing the pain the baby brings to Anya.

[Jagshemash]

there is a 6-page discussion board on the topic, why don't you read that before you post a new thread smh

[Feuver]

Do we have any concrete proof? No.

Is there enough clues and evidence to piece it together? IMO, Yes.

Just like any situation that involves SA, it's a depiction that what happens behind closed doors in between two people can be interpreted very differently by anyone.

There is NOTHING that indicates Jimmy or Anya had a consentual or romantic relationship in the game. Not ever. And when Anya asks him to fill the psych eval, he makes jokes about being sexually attracted to horses. As if to torment her, and he gets really awkward about that when Curly presses him on it.

Curly was quite eager to sweep this under the rug, as it is incredibly uncomfortable and difficult when you're in the middle of an extremely long journey in a tight quarters ship. He was concerned Anya was about to self-harm with the gun, but instead she hid it because he didn't want Jimmy to have it. Why would Anya want to self harm if "everything was consentual"

However, Anya's pregnancy ♥♥♥♥♥ Curly and Jimmy's plan to keep it under the rug completely. Anya is going to give birth aboard the ship, and they have no job once the delivery is over. Curly again takes Jimmy's side because he loves Jimmy and doesn't want things to go out of hands on the ship. However, Jimmy, faced with the prospect of:
1) Going back to his home with no jobs, no formal experience and no money
2) Going back to his home and getting charged with sexual assault (With the proof of the encounter with Anya's child) and Child support
3) Going back to his home and dealing with Anya (jobless nurse) and a child while he already struggles on his own.

Decides to crash the ship during a mental breakdown (I hope this hurts), however he was hoping everyone would die in the crash. "Captain Curly mishandled the ship and crashed it on its last transit, causing the death of the crew." However, everyone survived. Thus the events of Mouthwashing.

End of the day, you can believe whatever you want. The game is deliberately left ambiguous in a lot of aspects. MOST people would however tend to agree that Jimmy raped Anya, and then told Curly, who did nothing, and then after the crash told Swansea, but she kept the line "I have to believe our worst moments don't make us monsters" to prevent Swansea from killing Jimmy (he tries later) and to convince herself that Jimmy as the captain can be a good thing, instead of how terrible it actually is.

[Guido]

Publicado originalmente por CrabNicholson:

As an addendum to my above post, you can see the things that Jimmy is traumatized by during his insanity sequences, and the locations and objects that trigger them.

After he crashes the ship, he wanders the hall, and is traumatized by the Polle posters and the Polle animatronic, followed by visions of broken ladders. The Polle posters and their reminders to work harder are ironic reminders that his hard work had been for nothing due to being laid off. The broken ladder is symbolic of his failed dreams of "climbing the ladder" and becoming captain.

Jimmy later on has the stealth segment in the cargo hold (explained above). If it represented Anya's rape, then why would it be in the cargo hold? The cargo hold wasn't even opened during the timeframe when she was allegedly raped. Those who argue for the SA, say it happened in the sleeping quarters, but Jimmy never has a single episode in the sleeping quarters, indicating that there's nothing there for him to feel guilty about.

Jimmy then has a trauma segment in the vents, representing his guilt over Daisuke's death. Daisuke is also represented as a hibiscus flower, due to the pattern on his shirt.

Jimmy has a trauma segment with Swansea, where Swansea stalks him through a graveyard. The graveyard represents Jimmy's grief over the deaths on the ship.

Jimmy has a trauma segment where Polle tells Jimmy he should be more worried about ~someone else~ while he laments over failing Curly. This is implied to represent the foetus, This is followed by a trauma segment involving the foetus. He is guilty over the loss of Anya and the pregnancy.

Jimmy has a trauma segment revolving around Curly and the birthday party, which represents the last time when everyone was alive and happy and things were normal, and it's where he resolves on his mission to """save""" Curly.

So - all of Jimmy's guilt is heavily touched upon in the game, nothing is left out, and his trauma always takes place in a logical location related to that trauma. Except he is mysteriously never involved in anything in the Sleeping Quarters.

The only reason why it seems like Anya was raped is because she's afraid of Jimmy, but this is explainable through other reasons. Other than this, all attempts to tie the game's symbolism to rape are a massive grasp at straws and ignore the more obvious and consistent symbolism in the game.

idk your true intentions, since you were at pretty much every single thread i've seen of this game, diminishing Anya being an sa victim. but in case you need confirmation from the devs, Jimmy himself was named in reference to a Lana del Rey song (A&W) that has rape culture and dehumanization of women as a theme.

Jimmy doesn't see Anya as a person worthy of respect. It is implied he told her to kill herself due to her pregnancy. Anya NEVER appears in Jimmy's delusions (in the card room, all of Anya's cards are hidden), he cares more about the consequences of the unwanted baby rather then her or what he did. in fact, he doesn't even feel remorse for hurting Anya. He only apologizes to what he did to Curly. Polle (who also has the same text color as Anya) says it himself at the end: "Why are you still so concerned with him ?

i feel like the one "grasping for straws" is you. but you could very well just be a troll and i might be wasting my time ♥♥♥♥♥

[CrabNicholson]

Publicado originalmente por Guido:

Publicado originalmente por CrabNicholson:

As an addendum to my above post, you can see the things that Jimmy is traumatized by during his insanity sequences, and the locations and objects that trigger them.

After he crashes the ship, he wanders the hall, and is traumatized by the Polle posters and the Polle animatronic, followed by visions of broken ladders. The Polle posters and their reminders to work harder are ironic reminders that his hard work had been for nothing due to being laid off. The broken ladder is symbolic of his failed dreams of "climbing the ladder" and becoming captain.

Jimmy later on has the stealth segment in the cargo hold (explained above). If it represented Anya's rape, then why would it be in the cargo hold? The cargo hold wasn't even opened during the timeframe when she was allegedly raped. Those who argue for the SA, say it happened in the sleeping quarters, but Jimmy never has a single episode in the sleeping quarters, indicating that there's nothing there for him to feel guilty about.

Jimmy then has a trauma segment in the vents, representing his guilt over Daisuke's death. Daisuke is also represented as a hibiscus flower, due to the pattern on his shirt.

Jimmy has a trauma segment with Swansea, where Swansea stalks him through a graveyard. The graveyard represents Jimmy's grief over the deaths on the ship.

Jimmy has a trauma segment where Polle tells Jimmy he should be more worried about ~someone else~ while he laments over failing Curly. This is implied to represent the foetus, This is followed by a trauma segment involving the foetus. He is guilty over the loss of Anya and the pregnancy.

Jimmy has a trauma segment revolving around Curly and the birthday party, which represents the last time when everyone was alive and happy and things were normal, and it's where he resolves on his mission to """save""" Curly.

So - all of Jimmy's guilt is heavily touched upon in the game, nothing is left out, and his trauma always takes place in a logical location related to that trauma. Except he is mysteriously never involved in anything in the Sleeping Quarters.

The only reason why it seems like Anya was raped is because she's afraid of Jimmy, but this is explainable through other reasons. Other than this, all attempts to tie the game's symbolism to rape are a massive grasp at straws and ignore the more obvious and consistent symbolism in the game.

idk your true intentions, since you were at pretty much every single thread i've seen of this game, diminishing Anya being an sa victim. but in case you need confirmation from the devs, Jimmy himself was named in reference to a Lana del Rey song (A&W) that has rape culture and dehumanization of women as a theme.

Jimmy doesn't see Anya as a person worthy of respect. It is implied he told her to kill herself due to her pregnancy. Anya NEVER appears in Jimmy's delusions (in the card room, all of Anya's cards are hidden), he cares more about the consequences of the unwanted baby rather then her or what he did. in fact, he doesn't even feel remorse for hurting Anya. He only apologizes to what he did to Curly. Polle (who also has the same text color as Anya) says it himself at the end: "Why are you still so concerned with him ?

i feel like the one "grasping for straws" is you. but you could very well just be a troll and i might be wasting my time ♥♥♥♥♥

Did you read anything at all that I wrote? Clearly you didn't because you would have heard my explanation for the symbolism of the horse in the nightmare segments.

Take some time, read what I said, and feel free to respond to any of my points.

[Guido]

Publicado originalmente por CrabNicholson:

Publicado originalmente por Guido:

idk your true intentions, since you were at pretty much every single thread i've seen of this game, diminishing Anya being an sa victim. but in case you need confirmation from the devs, Jimmy himself was named in reference to a Lana del Rey song (A&W) that has rape culture and dehumanization of women as a theme.

Jimmy doesn't see Anya as a person worthy of respect. It is implied he told her to kill herself due to her pregnancy. Anya NEVER appears in Jimmy's delusions (in the card room, all of Anya's cards are hidden), he cares more about the consequences of the unwanted baby rather then her or what he did. in fact, he doesn't even feel remorse for hurting Anya. He only apologizes to what he did to Curly. Polle (who also has the same text color as Anya) says it himself at the end: "Why are you still so concerned with him ?

i feel like the one "grasping for straws" is you. but you could very well just be a troll and i might be wasting my time ♥♥♥♥♥

Did you read anything at all that I wrote? Clearly you didn't because you would have heard my explanation for the symbolism of the horse in the nightmare segments.

Take some time, read what I said, and feel free to respond to any of my points.

i have read what you wrote actually, so excuse you. i think the nightmarish version of Polle it's the representation of Jimmy's fear and frustration regarding his job, combined with the weight of the consequences of raping Anya and making her pregnant.

your theory doesn't change the fact there are obvious references to sa. the way Jimmy treats Anya, the character of Jimmy and Curly having allusions to rape culture, Anya's intense fear of Jimmy specifically, hiding a gun in fear of him becoming violent and knowing Curly wouldn't let her use it to defend herself, so and so. i don't know how you can't see that thinking Jimmy is portrayed as a "flawed but traumatized" man is a gigantic reach and a lapse of reading comprehension.

[CrabNicholson]

Publicado originalmente por Guido:

Publicado originalmente por CrabNicholson:

Did you read anything at all that I wrote? Clearly you didn't because you would have heard my explanation for the symbolism of the horse in the nightmare segments.

Take some time, read what I said, and feel free to respond to any of my points.

i have read what you wrote actually, so excuse you. i think the nightmarish version of Polle it's the representation of Jimmy's fear and frustration regarding his job, combined with the weight of the consequences of raping Anya and making her pregnant.

your theory doesn't change the fact there are obvious references to sa. the way Jimmy treats Anya, the character of Jimmy and Curly having allusions to rape culture, Anya's intense fear of Jimmy specifically, hiding a gun in fear of him becoming violent and knowing Curly wouldn't let her use it to defend herself, so and so. i don't know how you can't see that thinking Jimmy is portrayed as a "flawed but traumatized" man is a gigantic reach and a lapse of reading comprehension.

That's the thing with symbolism - it has to be consistent. If Polle represents work, then Polle can't represent rape. It has to always represent work, in order to be symbolic. Polle does represent work - that is clear enough from the very start of the game when Jimmy is haunted by Polle after losing his job. So is raping Anya Jimmy's job? Obviously not. The fact he sees her and the baby as a horse shows his relationship to them, he sees them as a responsibility. IE he is a reluctant father, not a rapist. He is burdened by the idea of having to take care of them, it's just another job to him on top of all the stress he already has.

"Rape Culture" you are trying to tell me that the whole crew is raping Anya now? It's absurd to have to reinvent literally every other character's motivation. Curly, for example, is routinely touted as "the good captain", but his flaw is naievity and inability to see peoples' flaws. He's not going to participant in rape, nothing in the story justifies this character interpretation. Anya isn't being raped, she is afraid of her boyfriend's reaction to her pregnancy, this is why it doesn't elicit a major response from Curly, because Curly is mostly uninvolved, though he does offer to help. If Anya were genuinely afraid of Jimmy, she wouldn't have asked Jimmy to take the axe from Swansea, or depend on him to help her take care of Curly. These actions show that she trusts Jimmy during the later half of the game.