Mouthwashing

Mouthwashing

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So did Anya actually got r... or is it something that the community decided happened?
Maybe I didn't paid attention, or maybe it's because I don't like to imagine stuff and instead I wait for people to tell it straight, so that I'm sure they mean what I think they mean, but it seemed to me like the situation might be, that she might jut spent a night with Jim, got pregnant but he didn't wanted her, and that's why she was upset instead of straight up r situation (and he might not have known about the child either and she was afraid to tell him). But again, I might not have been paying attention at the right time. At which moment it's made clear, that this is what happened?
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Iamus 3. Dez. 2024 um 17:49 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von CrabNicholson:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kaczor24:
your forgetting the part where jimmy is the only person who knows how to make a spiked cocktail
also hinting that he drugged Anya
It's not a roofie, it's literally rubbing alcohol that he put into Swansea's drink. Nobody would ever try to drug a rape victim with rubbing alcohol because the effects are extremely conspicuous: vomitting, extreme sickness, and possible organ damage. It's the least stealthy way possible to drug someone. The only reason why it worked on Swansea was because Swansea was already drunk and Jimmy didn't care if Swansea knew he got drugged, he was just trying to get past him to get to Anya.
I absolutely agree, While I want to believe she got roofied, there isn't anything to suggest it.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Edible Eyebrows:
The biggest hint really is that she takes the gun, not for herself, but so HE cant have it.

Why is she afraid of him at this point?

The game does leave it somewhat ambigious on purpose; the character is lying to himself, we get a LOT of unreliable narration throughout the game and a lot of denial, so we dont get to see hard evidence.

He crashes the ship to cover up what he did. if all he did was get a girl pregnant, it wouldnt really track that he would take such extreme action.

His central motive at all times is to be seen and remembered as a good guy, almost as if he is trying to wash away something bad he did.

again; not 100% confirmed and its entirely reasonably that you might have doubts.

Honestly, for me a lot of signs pointed towards Jimmy having huge anger management issues rather than SA - that's how i interpreted a lot of the hints. The way she talks to him to placate his ego, the gun hiding, the locks etc. I didn't jump to SA initially, i thought it was just something that could have happened but the game didn't delve into that aspect. I saw Jimmy as just a physically agressive dude. Eager to jump to using his fists, because he feels threatened that he's not going to appear man enough kind of guy.

But then the rape horse - or rather "you need to stay quiet" - thing changed my mind. I didn't catch that initially, but once someone mentioned it, I just can't see it being interpreted any other way.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Kot Rajmund; 4. Dez. 2024 um 2:26
I honestly don't think it's that ambiguous. A lot in the game heavily hints at SA and it makes significantly more sense that it was SA. I assume it happened before the news of termination but he in particular took it hard. He knew he absolutely had no future at that point and crashed the ship to avoid taking accountability for any of his actions. His actions got every single person killed. Curly should have stopped him from crashing and thus that does fall on him but everything else was Jimmy's fault.

I don't think SA harms the other character's that much either. It definitely makes it look bad for Jimmy but he's already the villain. Curly I think it does too but his reluctance puts him as more neutral rather than evil due to hesitation to act. Swansea also makes sense as he didn't learn until after the crash and being shipwrecked out in the space is a very tense situation, he probably figured it was safer to keep a close eye on him and keep him around for his usefulness being the co-pilot and all. When he got drugged by him and he saw what happened to the other two, with Anya offing herself specifically, he has no reason to not kill him anymore. I don't think he ever cared if he lived through it so after they died, only killing Jimmy mattered.
Logged in just to say thanks to the OP for asking this question, as I had the EXACT same suspicions as you. As much of a slimeball as Jimmy is, I never found concrete proof that what happened between Anya and Jimmy specifically was anything more than a one night stand where she ended up getting pregnant. Nothing seemed to be bad until Anya brought the only gun on the ship to Curly and directly saying she was afraid of Jimmy doing something drastic with it. Jimmy straight up told her to kill herself, so she obviously felt threatened. That doesn't make it too much better, but I also felt like the assault was just a head cannon because of how viscerally people hated Jimmy. (Understandably so, don't get me wrong.)

Your own personal research that you had laid out in the previous page finally had it click to me in a way that it only makes sense if the "intimacy" was forced. I had such a hard time believing Jimmy forced himself onto her, because no one gave a direct answer. Just look at the first response to this post! So many people only replied with the same thing even though people were asking for specific references where it was implied Jimmy assaulted her; the fans who decided to reply were usually condescending, aggressive, and just going "hOw dO yOu nOT seE ThE sUbtLe hiNtS, it was clearly implied!!" It's not considered proof that he assaulted her JUST because Jimmy is a narcissistic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, that's not proof enough. That by itself doesn't imply rape. It's like calling Ted Bundy, a serial killer rapist, a pedophile. Bundy was and still is considered a murderer, but there was literally no proof he was getting it on with kids. (Although he has killed underage girls, I never found anything that he forced himself onto them like he did the others.) Someone can still be a degenerate of a human being without being ALL of the bad things in the world.

Again, thanks Blash, for helping to clear this up. Thanks for this post, and those that contributed to actually answering his question.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Knight of Catarina; 4. Dez. 2024 um 12:44
It is very heavily implied.
thunda 4. Dez. 2024 um 12:31 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von CrabNicholson:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kaczor24:
your forgetting the part where jimmy is the only person who knows how to make a spiked cocktail
also hinting that he drugged Anya
It's not a roofie, it's literally rubbing alcohol that he put into Swansea's drink. Nobody would ever try to drug a rape victim with rubbing alcohol because the effects are extremely conspicuous: vomitting, extreme sickness, and possible organ damage. It's the least stealthy way possible to drug someone. The only reason why it worked on Swansea was because Swansea was already drunk and Jimmy didn't care if Swansea knew he got drugged, he was just trying to get past him to get to Anya.
This gets to the level of speculation that I doubt even the devs were aware of. No way they thought of any of that. Its not that deep. "spiked drink = drugged" is what the logic amounts to in these type of scenarios
Zuletzt bearbeitet von thunda; 4. Dez. 2024 um 12:32
Ursprünglich geschrieben von thunda:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von CrabNicholson:
It's not a roofie, it's literally rubbing alcohol that he put into Swansea's drink. Nobody would ever try to drug a rape victim with rubbing alcohol because the effects are extremely conspicuous: vomitting, extreme sickness, and possible organ damage. It's the least stealthy way possible to drug someone. The only reason why it worked on Swansea was because Swansea was already drunk and Jimmy didn't care if Swansea knew he got drugged, he was just trying to get past him to get to Anya.
This gets to the level of speculation that I doubt even the devs were aware of. No way they thought of any of that. Its not that deep. "spiked drink = drugged" is what the logic amounts to in these type of scenarios
The stretch is all these bonkers fan theories trying to connect everything to rape instead of observing the themes of the game (taking responsibility for a pregnancy and crashing the ship) and the reactions of the other characters ("well you screwed up but we can fix things") which indicates the pregnancy as an inconvenience rather than a serious crime.

The stealth section in the cargo hold representing rape is a stretch. Jimmy sneaking around in the cargo hold is more symbolic of trying to hide his alcoholism by getting drunk in the cargo hold. (The horse represents both Polle, the workplace mascot, and Anya and the pregnancy, the theme tying both of them together being responsibility, and the segment ends with a cheeful-looking Polle offering Jimmy a bottle of mouthwash, IE - Jimmy is afraid of responsibility and copes with alcohol). This is further supported by Jimmy's freak-out at being asked to do everything on the ship instead of "being given time to think".

Jimmy drugging Swansea with rubbing alcohol is shocking because rubbing alcohol is poisonous. Rubbing alcohol deliberately has bittering agents added into it by manufacturers to make it disgusting and induce vomitting, specifically so people (IE alcoholics) won't accidentally (or deliberately) drink it and kill themselves. Jimmy drugging Swansea is really more of a statement on how desperate he is to save Anya and/or Curly, willing to trade Swansea's life for theirs by poisoning him. It doesn't indicate experience with subtly drugging people, if anything it is the most brute force method possible.

Anya's comment about being able to "see the dead pixel" is symbolic that she can see people's flaws, IE she is the only one who realizes Jimmy is going crazy. This entire symbolism would be lost if Jimmy raped her, because it would be blatantly obvious at that point, not just a missing pixel.

(etc.)
Iamus 4. Dez. 2024 um 13:29 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von CrabNicholson:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von thunda:
This gets to the level of speculation that I doubt even the devs were aware of. No way they thought of any of that. Its not that deep. "spiked drink = drugged" is what the logic amounts to in these type of scenarios
The stretch is all these bonkers fan theories trying to connect everything to rape instead of observing the themes of the game (taking responsibility for a pregnancy and crashing the ship) and the reactions of the other characters ("well you screwed up but we can fix things") which indicates the pregnancy as an inconvenience rather than a serious crime.

The stealth section in the cargo hold representing rape is a stretch. Jimmy sneaking around in the cargo hold is more symbolic of trying to hide his alcoholism by getting drunk in the cargo hold. (The horse represents both Polle, the workplace mascot, and Anya and the pregnancy, the theme tying both of them together being responsibility, and the segment ends with a cheeful-looking Polle offering Jimmy a bottle of mouthwash, IE - Jimmy is afraid of responsibility and copes with alcohol). This is further supported by Jimmy's freak-out at being asked to do everything on the ship instead of "being given time to think".

Jimmy drugging Swansea with rubbing alcohol is shocking because rubbing alcohol is poisonous. Rubbing alcohol deliberately has bittering agents added into it by manufacturers to make it disgusting and induce vomitting, specifically so people (IE alcoholics) won't accidentally (or deliberately) drink it and kill themselves. Jimmy drugging Swansea is really more of a statement on how desperate he is to save Anya and/or Curly, willing to trade Swansea's life for theirs by poisoning him. It doesn't indicate experience with subtly drugging people, if anything it is the most brute force method possible.

Anya's comment about being able to "see the dead pixel" is symbolic that she can see people's flaws, IE she is the only one who realizes Jimmy is going crazy. This entire symbolism would be lost if Jimmy raped her, because it would be blatantly obvious at that point, not just a missing pixel.

(etc.)
Genuine question, is there anything to imply that it wasn't SA?
CrabNicholson 4. Dez. 2024 um 13:54 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Iamus:
Genuine question, is there anything to imply that it wasn't SA? [/quote]

Off the top of my head:
1) The missing pixel comment I made above. Anya is afraid of Jimmy because of something subtle (IE a missing pixel) not because of something blatant. She can see him going insane and increasingly aggressive and it makes her afraid of him.
2) None of the crew treat it as an SA. Curly treats it as a minor problem, Swansea mostly doesn't say anything about it. If it's an SA then it requires the character assassination of Curly and Swansea to be plausible, IE they are both enablers or uncaring. It ruins their character development.
3) The theme of taking responsibility. Jimmy stops Anya from drinking alcohol, implying he wants to help her take care of the baby. Jimmy tries to do something with the foetus during his insanity sequence (possibly tried to save it after Anya's suicide). The fact that he sees the foetus as a responsibility rather than, say, serving jail time or confessing, indicates that the character arc is about taking responsibility for getting Anya pregnant rather than him being a rapist. There are no themes of lust or unrequited love or anything like that in the game which would indicate Jimmy being obsessed or sexually frustrated or desiring Anya, rather he treats Anya as a burden and typically is annoyed whenever she asks him for anything.
4) Jimmy's desperation to save Anya when she commits suicide, leading to Swansea being poisoned (not drugged), and Daisuke being sent into the vents which got him killed. This is part of Jimmy's character development arc of seeing Anya as his responsibility.
5) Jimmy's character arc revolving around Curly, where Jimmy is shown to pretty much idolize Curly and see him as this noble and self-sacrificing leader, leading to Jimmy attempting to make things right by sacrificing himself for Curly. This is probably Jimmy's biggest arc, and the one which leads to the finale, where Jimmy redeems himself by "saving" Curly (at least in his mind). If he was a rapist, then that is something which would have been confronted as a plot arc, but it never was. In the end, Jimmy is more concerned with his failures as a leader. That's not because "he's so uncaring he doesn't feel guilt over it" because Jimmy's entire character arc he is consumed with guilt and feelings of inferiority and the need to take responsibility. The reason this is never part of the story, is because it's not part of the story.
That's a surprisingly optimistic view of someone like Jimmy.
Iamus 4. Dez. 2024 um 14:23 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von CrabNicholson:

Off the top of my head:
1) The missing pixel comment I made above. Anya is afraid of Jimmy because of something subtle (IE a missing pixel) not because of something blatant. She can see him going insane and increasingly aggressive and it makes her afraid of him.
2) None of the crew treat it as an SA. Curly treats it as a minor problem, Swansea mostly doesn't say anything about it. If it's an SA then it requires the character assassination of Curly and Swansea to be plausible, IE they are both enablers or uncaring. It ruins their character development.
3) The theme of taking responsibility. Jimmy stops Anya from drinking alcohol, implying he wants to help her take care of the baby. Jimmy tries to do something with the foetus during his insanity sequence (possibly tried to save it after Anya's suicide). The fact that he sees the foetus as a responsibility rather than, say, serving jail time or confessing, indicates that the character arc is about taking responsibility for getting Anya pregnant rather than him being a rapist. There are no themes of lust or unrequited love or anything like that in the game which would indicate Jimmy being obsessed or sexually frustrated or desiring Anya, rather he treats Anya as a burden and typically is annoyed whenever she asks him for anything.
4) Jimmy's desperation to save Anya when she commits suicide, leading to Swansea being poisoned (not drugged), and Daisuke being sent into the vents which got him killed. This is part of Jimmy's character development arc of seeing Anya as his responsibility.
5) Jimmy's character arc revolving around Curly, where Jimmy is shown to pretty much idolize Curly and see him as this noble and self-sacrificing leader, leading to Jimmy attempting to make things right by sacrificing himself for Curly. This is probably Jimmy's biggest arc, and the one which leads to the finale, where Jimmy redeems himself by "saving" Curly (at least in his mind). If he was a rapist, then that is something which would have been confronted as a plot arc, but it never was. In the end, Jimmy is more concerned with his failures as a leader. That's not because "he's so uncaring he doesn't feel guilt over it" because Jimmy's entire character arc he is consumed with guilt and feelings of inferiority and the need to take responsibility. The reason this is never part of the story, is because it's not part of the story.
1) why did she bring up lack of doors?
2) Curly did, unless you have another reason for Curlys 99% kill screen that kept flashing.
3) is the theme taking or avoiding responsibility? I mean not much responsibility has been taken in this game.
4) He seemed more concerned about being locked out by Anya, and worried about what she might do to Curly than what she does. He didn't even notice her when he came in.
5) i think the stronger point is how Jimmy never took responsibility for anything. Not Anya, Diasuke, Swansea, nothing. He didn't take responsibility for what he did to Curly. He just shoved a man who may never have a quality of life ever again, assuming he gets rescued. An assumption based on nothing. Meanwhile he kills himself thinking he somehow fixed everything. I honestly don't see Jimmy actually have an art, he had no growth, he avoided it.

Edit: fixed formatting.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Iamus; 4. Dez. 2024 um 14:27
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knight of Catarina:
That's a surprisingly optimistic view of someone like Jimmy.
Jimmy is crazy and has a lot of flaws, but his flaws make sense. They're part of a story arc. He doesn't like hurting people or just screw with people for no reason, he has justifications for the way he acts. Usually the problem arises from the fact he is so short-sighted and extreme in his actions.

Jimmy's arc goes :

He hated his life before the ship, he likes the ship because he's second in command and he has authority and it gives him a private world where him and Curly are in control. He has an inferiority complex comparing himself to Curly and aspires to take Curly's place.

When Curly tells the crew that they have been laid off, Jimmy reveals his issues with assignment of blame. He places all the responsibility and blame for the crew's layoffs on Curly, scapegoating him unfairly.

When Curly tells Jimmy that Anya is pregnant, Jimmy again tries to scapegoat Curly. He then has a mental break and crashes the ship.

After the ship is crashed, Jimmy seems to become increasingly obsessed with taking responsibility. It outright flashes on the screen. He runs around trying to fix the ship while everyone else pretty much just wallows in self-pity. Jimmy believes that he can find a way to fix the ship and save everyone. He also occasionally shows an interest in taking responsibility for Anya (EG. stopping her from drinking alcohol while pregnant).

Things go downhill, Anya commits suicide. Jimmy tries to save her, he focuses entirely on saving her (or Curly, it's not clear at this point) to the point that Daisuke dies, driving Swansea insane. Jimmy arrests Swansea and Swansea reveals that he was saving the cryopod for Daisuke. Jimmy tells Swansea he will "fix things", reassuring him before killing him. "I'll fix things" is almost like a mantra for Jimmy at this point, and he keeps saying it no matter how absurdly unfixable things become. It shows his obsession with correcting his mistakes.

Eventually, he has the "redemption" arc with Curly, mentioned above. It's a horror game, and Jimmy is a tragic hero, so the redemption arc is inverted, with it actually coming across more like Jimmy is torturing Curly, but in his mind Jimmy is saving Curly, and that's the important thing. This is a common literary theme, I think it's called "reconciliation with the father", where an authority figure is rebelled against and then as the character matures, they understand the authority figure's motivations and come to identify with them. Jimmy is internalizing the ideas that Curly represents to him.

So that being said, it's not that Jimmy is a misunderstood hero, he's a lunatic, but his story arc shows an incredible level of anxiety and guilt and an obsession with trying to make things better. Most of Jimmy's mistakes come from his insane outbursts that occur during moments of extreme stress that seem to cause him to act with tunnel vision. He crashes the ship as an insane way of fixing the problem where he lost his job and has a baby to take care of. He poisons Swansea and gets Daisuke killed because he's trying to save Anya and Curly. He tortures Curly in his attempts to save him. Etc. He alternates between taking extreme actions and attempting to fix the problems caused by these extreme actions; and he has a pathological anxiety towards responsibility, these are his fatal flaws.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Iamus:
1) why did she bring up lack of doors?
2) Curly did, unless you have another reason for Curlys 99% kill screen that kept flashing.
3) is the theme taking or avoiding responsibility? I mean not much responsibility has been taken in this game.
4) He seemed more concerned about being locked out by Anya, and worried about what she might do to Curly than what she does. He didn't even notice her when he came in.
5) i think the stronger point is how Jimmy never took responsibility for anything. Not Anya, Diasuke, Swansea, nothing. He didn't take responsibility for what he did to Curly. He just shoved a man who may never have a quality of life ever again, assuming he gets rescued. An assumption based on nothing. Meanwhile he kills himself thinking he somehow fixed everything. I honestly don't see Jimmy actually have an art, he had no growth, he avoided it.

Edit: fixed formatting.
1. Foreshadowing her committing suicide in the medbay and because she perceives Jimmy's increasing insanity when nobody else does. Wouldn't you want security against an insane (ex) boyfriend you are trapped on a ship with?
2. I'm not sure what you mean by this, Curly tells Jimmy he'll help Jimmy out after talking to Anya.
3. It's both, that's Jimmy's character development arc
4. Jimmy has a complicated relationship with Anya and Curly. He seems to try to avoid thinking about her, but the monster horse segments do often seem to represent her, so when he does think about her, it causes massive stress
5. It's a horror game, and Jimmy's probably more of a villain protagonist than a hero, but he does have his motivations, and he does act in a way which is consistent with these motivations
Zuletzt bearbeitet von CrabNicholson; 4. Dez. 2024 um 14:33
Iamus 4. Dez. 2024 um 14:34 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von CrabNicholson:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knight of Catarina:
That's a surprisingly optimistic view of someone like Jimmy.
Jimmy is crazy and has a lot of flaws, but his flaws make sense. They're part of a story arc. He doesn't like hurting people or just screw with people for no reason, he has justifications for the way he acts. Usually the problem arises from the fact he is so short-sighted and extreme in his actions.

Jimmy's arc goes :

He hated his life before the ship, he likes the ship because he's second in command and he has authority and it gives him a private world where him and Curly are in control. He has an inferiority complex comparing himself to Curly and aspires to take Curly's place.

When Curly tells the crew that they have been laid off, Jimmy reveals his issues with assignment of blame. He places all the responsibility and blame for the crew's layoffs on Curly, scapegoating him unfairly.

When Curly tells Jimmy that Anya is pregnant, Jimmy again tries to scapegoat Curly. He then has a mental break and crashes the ship.

After the ship is crashed, Jimmy seems to become increasingly obsessed with taking responsibility. It outright flashes on the screen. He runs around trying to fix the ship while everyone else pretty much just wallows in self-pity. Jimmy believes that he can find a way to fix the ship and save everyone. He also occasionally shows an interest in taking responsibility for Anya (EG. stopping her from drinking alcohol while pregnant).

Things go downhill, Anya commits suicide. Jimmy tries to save her, he focuses entirely on saving her (or Curly, it's not clear at this point) to the point that Daisuke dies, driving Swansea insane. Jimmy arrests Swansea and Swansea reveals that he was saving the cryopod for Daisuke. Jimmy tells Swansea he will "fix things", reassuring him before killing him. "I'll fix things" is almost like a mantra for Jimmy at this point, and he keeps saying it no matter how absurdly unfixable things become. It shows his obsession with correcting his mistakes.

Eventually, he has the "redemption" arc with Curly, mentioned above. It's a horror game, and Jimmy is a tragic hero, so the redemption arc is inverted, with it actually coming across more like Jimmy is torturing Curly, but in his mind Jimmy is saving Curly, and that's the important thing. This is a common literary theme, I think it's called "reconciliation with the father", where an authority figure is rebelled against and then as the character matures, they understand the authority figure's motivations and come to identify with them. Jimmy is internalizing the ideas that Curly represents to him.

So that being said, it's not that Jimmy is a misunderstood hero, he's a lunatic, but his story arc shows an incredible level of anxiety and guilt and an obsession with trying to make things better. Most of Jimmy's mistakes come from his insane outbursts that occur during moments of extreme stress that seem to cause him to act with tunnel vision. He crashes the ship as an insane way of fixing the problem where he lost his job and has a baby to take care of. He poisons Swansea and gets Daisuke killed because he's trying to save Anya and Curly. He tortures Curly in his attempts to save him. Etc. He alternates between taking extreme actions and attempting to fix the problems caused by these extreme actions; and he has a pathological anxiety towards responsibility, these are his fatal flaws.
I do feel like you see the best in people. I envy that.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von CrabNicholson:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knight of Catarina:
That's a surprisingly optimistic view of someone like Jimmy.
Jimmy is crazy and has a lot of flaws, but his flaws make sense. They're part of a story arc. He doesn't like hurting people or just screw with people for no reason, he has justifications for the way he acts. Usually the problem arises from the fact he is so short-sighted and extreme...

That's an interesting way to see him! Almost everything is never directly said in the game for a reason, so to interpret his actions as someone giving a genuine attempt at redeeming themselves instead of him just trying to console himself is pretty unique.

I personally still feel like the assault on Anya is much more plausible, just because of how dismissive and aggressive he was to her.
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