So did Anya actually got r... or is it something that the community decided happened?

[💗Blaaashyyy💗]

Maybe I didn't paid attention, or maybe it's because I don't like to imagine stuff and instead I wait for people to tell it straight, so that I'm sure they mean what I think they mean, but it seemed to me like the situation might be, that she might jut spent a night with Jim, got pregnant but he didn't wanted her, and that's why she was upset instead of straight up r situation (and he might not have known about the child either and she was afraid to tell him). But again, I might not have been paying attention at the right time. At which moment it's made clear, that this is what happened?

[Kain]

Escrito originalmente por Blash:

Escrito originalmente por Kain:

I mean either Jimmy as a violent man or as a rapist, those are both possibilities that fit very well with all the evidence presented. I get that some people won't subscribe to one possibility or the other, but losing their minds over it is silly.

The "it's a rape, no other option!" crowd is just heavily emotionally invested in this, thus they will lose minds over the topic, obviously.

For sure. Anyone who isn't willing to entertain another possibility is reading too much into the game. It's vague for a reason.

[Vyndasia]

Escrito originalmente por myraccoonhands:

Escrito originalmente por Something Hank:

Not a single one of Jimmy's hallucinations even /involve/ Anya at all. He's not guilty about the assault itself. At all. He's just feeling frantic for being caught. If he could get out of that whole situation scott-free, he'd never think about it again. He'd go on with his days.

A very real situation. Many real people are like that.

You are correct, yes.

The reason he doesn't feel guilt about the assault is because he doesn't much care about what he did. It's more about being caught and the consequences thereof.

Hence why he tried to kill everyone by crashing the ship and only had twisted manifestations of guilt about the baby in the form of Polle, as opposed to thinking about Anya much at all.

Again, if people cannot ascertain this, they're severely missing the point and are refusing to understand what the game is portraying... Anya being "erased" and Jimmy not having guilt about what he did to her are centrally thematic to the fact he assaulted her. It's why "TAKE RESPONSIBILITY" is repeated over and over-- Not because it means for him to play pseudo-captain or pretend to "save" Curly, it's strictly because he fails to own up to his transgressions and treats Anya like she's less than human.

Even if you consider the part where he is in the vents and the game intends for you to walk backward instead of actually moving TOWARD responsibility. It's all representational of him not owning up to what he did.

The game tells you she was r*ped in every conceivable way without directly telling the player she was r*ped.

The thing is, you're getting most of the information from Jimmy's POV. Which, to repeat, denies the fact he did anything wrong to start with. You're not meant to believe Jimmy because he is actively suppressing those details from the player.

So, no, Jimmy wouldn't have any guilt about assaulting Anya because 1) He doesn't see her as a person, he sees her as less than, 2) You're meant to pick up on the fact that he constantly manipulates people and bends over backward to justify his actions. 3) He sees his power and control over Anya as something he deserves because he felt scorned from so many failures. To him, she was an object he felt he was entitled to. He even made a comment to Curly about how he likes the job because "he's in control." (This is a man who wholly abuses power every chance he gets saying this.)

The only other perspective you have is Curly's, who failed to notice it, as I mentioned before. By design, you're supposed to doubt it because Jimmy pushes it down and Curly jumps right over it.

It's all blatant if you know what to look for. It tells us that Jimmy hurt Anya through sexual violence and Curly failed to do anything about it. In case it wasn't seen in my previous comment: Curly's state of being post-crash is supposed to be a metaphor for the agency Anya lacked because of his actions. (Or lack of actions.)

It's sad because the game is actually a brilliant critique on how sexual violence is overlooked and ignored with a backdrop of late stage capitalism and here we are with a bunch of people in the comments saying, "I don't think she was r*ped because it wasn't spelled out to me in the most blatant way." It's actually a bit frustrating.

As the previous comment said, "Many real people are like that."

Unfortunately, this EXACT type of story is all too common.

I just got through the game a few hours ago and I was immediately excited to see other people's thoughts and commentary on it and read some wonderful thoughts (including yours) and expand my thinking, but WHOOPS! Forgot we live in a society! So I have speedrun all the way to jaded unsurprise that the point would be missed this hard, because of course it was.

I can't speak for Johanna, THE WOMAN WHO WROTE THE STORY, for yet another impressive layer of woefully missing the point, but if I were her, I would be screaming into a pillow for a week. Or smothering people with it. Both, I like to keep things interesting.

You're engaging in good faith. They aren't. People who don't want to believe, won't want to believe, because they have that luxury. It's hilarious, heartbreaking, and infuriating that they are, very literally, proving the game's thesis in real time! Right now! Amazing! Art imitating life at its best, baby! /s

Honestly, the writing is just multiple layers of absolutely brilliant in that you can engage with the surface of it and still have a good time but it isn't REALLY what the game is actually about.

Regardless, I wanted to say thank you for taking the time and spending the energy to pen out your thoughts with references to what actually happens in the game, very articulately and thoughtfully. A lot of stuff was already clear to me but there were some things that were mindblowing to me too that you pointed out that were as delightful as they were very sobering. And it was also just very cathartic because I went looking for comments like yours to give me some glimmer of hope and I got a beacon instead.

[Sir Aurelius of Skalitz]

Good thing in court you need actual proof and not just "feeling" to convict some1 cuz all of the "evidence" everyone can come up with is what they "feel" Jimmy did off of some very vague context clues.

Also she had major MAJOR help with writing the story and making it dont even try to make it sound like she did it all on her lonesome.

[Something Hank]

Escrito originalmente por Brother Aurelius:

Good thing in court you need actual proof and not just "feeling" to convict some1 cuz all of the "evidence" everyone can come up with is what they "feel" Jimmy did off of some very vague context clues.

Also she had major MAJOR help with writing the story and making it dont even try to make it sound like she did it all on her lonesome.

This is probably the worst possible angle you could take it from. Real life doesn't have convenient foreshadowing, or thematic symbolism in random places, or unreliable narrators making us see people different literally through our own eyeballs, or a literal /writer/ intending to make a story.

Hell, no one here is even talking about real sexual assault cases. Step back. Breath.

[Sir Aurelius of Skalitz]

Escrito originalmente por Something Hank:

Escrito originalmente por Brother Aurelius:

Good thing in court you need actual proof and not just "feeling" to convict some1 cuz all of the "evidence" everyone can come up with is what they "feel" Jimmy did off of some very vague context clues.

Also she had major MAJOR help with writing the story and making it dont even try to make it sound like she did it all on her lonesome.

This is probably the worst possible angle you could take it from. Real life doesn't have convenient foreshadowing, or thematic symbolism in random places, or unreliable narrators making us see people different literally through our own eyeballs, or a literal /writer/ intending to make a story.

Hell, no one here is even talking about real sexual assault cases. Step back. Breath.

Your willful ignorance is funny, many people are talking about irl cases so there goes that argument. That and everyone just assumes this game has unreliable narrators cause it helps their argument aswell even though its never stated that a case for this game.

So how about you take a step back, get outside of your comfort thinking zone and expand your mind.

[Something Hank]

Escrito originalmente por Brother Aurelius:

Escrito originalmente por Something Hank:

This is probably the worst possible angle you could take it from. Real life doesn't have convenient foreshadowing, or thematic symbolism in random places, or unreliable narrators making us see people different literally through our own eyeballs, or a literal /writer/ intending to make a story.

Hell, no one here is even talking about real sexual assault cases. Step back. Breath.

Your willful ignorance is funny, many people are talking about irl cases so there goes that argument. That and everyone just assumes this game has unreliable narrators cause it helps their argument aswell even though its never stated that a case for this game.

So how about you take a step back, get outside of your comfort thinking zone and expand your mind.

Bro ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ WHO is talking about that here that hasn't been disregarded as insane?

Like--- Do you not see the issue of taking /real life sexual assault cases/ into this discussion?

This is no longer a 'discussion about game', this is you being /very, very gross/.

[Kain]

I admit I haven't read EVERY single comment in this thread, but those whose comments I did knew we were talking about a game.

I've seen some people bring real life examples or comparisons like for example saying that people like Jimmy exists which I think is fine. I think the belief we can just and interpret art, specially one filled with narrative gaps and symbolism without personal experiences is just being pretentious. You'll find absolute objectivity very rarely in real life, let alone art.

[Sir Aurelius of Skalitz]

Escrito originalmente por Something Hank:

Escrito originalmente por Brother Aurelius:

Your willful ignorance is funny, many people are talking about irl cases so there goes that argument. That and everyone just assumes this game has unreliable narrators cause it helps their argument aswell even though its never stated that a case for this game.

So how about you take a step back, get outside of your comfort thinking zone and expand your mind.

Bro ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ WHO is talking about that here that hasn't been disregarded as insane?

Like--- Do you not see the issue of taking /real life sexual assault cases/ into this discussion?

This is no longer a 'discussion about game', this is you being /very, very gross/.

You need to calm down and stop trying to steer the subject to IRL. Until then I will be ignoring you since you cant seem to not let your emotions get the better of you.

[Something Hank]

Escrito originalmente por Brother Aurelius:

Escrito originalmente por Something Hank:

Bro ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ WHO is talking about that here that hasn't been disregarded as insane?

Like--- Do you not see the issue of taking /real life sexual assault cases/ into this discussion?

This is no longer a 'discussion about game', this is you being /very, very gross/.

You need to calm down and stop trying to steer the subject to IRL. Until then I will be ignoring you since you cant seem to not let your emotions get the better of you.

You can not cover up being a gross wierdo with 'ermmm i'm ignoring you now, im better than you'. It is now known.

[💗Blaaashyyy💗]

Escrito originalmente por Vyndasia:

Escrito originalmente por myraccoonhands:

You are correct, yes.

The reason he doesn't feel guilt about the assault is because he doesn't much care about what he did. It's more about being caught and the consequences thereof.

Hence why he tried to kill everyone by crashing the ship and only had twisted manifestations of guilt about the baby in the form of Polle, as opposed to thinking about Anya much at all.

Again, if people cannot ascertain this, they're severely missing the point and are refusing to understand what the game is portraying... Anya being "erased" and Jimmy not having guilt about what he did to her are centrally thematic to the fact he assaulted her. It's why "TAKE RESPONSIBILITY" is repeated over and over-- Not because it means for him to play pseudo-captain or pretend to "save" Curly, it's strictly because he fails to own up to his transgressions and treats Anya like she's less than human.

Even if you consider the part where he is in the vents and the game intends for you to walk backward instead of actually moving TOWARD responsibility. It's all representational of him not owning up to what he did.

The game tells you she was r*ped in every conceivable way without directly telling the player she was r*ped.

The thing is, you're getting most of the information from Jimmy's POV. Which, to repeat, denies the fact he did anything wrong to start with. You're not meant to believe Jimmy because he is actively suppressing those details from the player.

So, no, Jimmy wouldn't have any guilt about assaulting Anya because 1) He doesn't see her as a person, he sees her as less than, 2) You're meant to pick up on the fact that he constantly manipulates people and bends over backward to justify his actions. 3) He sees his power and control over Anya as something he deserves because he felt scorned from so many failures. To him, she was an object he felt he was entitled to. He even made a comment to Curly about how he likes the job because "he's in control." (This is a man who wholly abuses power every chance he gets saying this.)

The only other perspective you have is Curly's, who failed to notice it, as I mentioned before. By design, you're supposed to doubt it because Jimmy pushes it down and Curly jumps right over it.

It's all blatant if you know what to look for. It tells us that Jimmy hurt Anya through sexual violence and Curly failed to do anything about it. In case it wasn't seen in my previous comment: Curly's state of being post-crash is supposed to be a metaphor for the agency Anya lacked because of his actions. (Or lack of actions.)

It's sad because the game is actually a brilliant critique on how sexual violence is overlooked and ignored with a backdrop of late stage capitalism and here we are with a bunch of people in the comments saying, "I don't think she was r*ped because it wasn't spelled out to me in the most blatant way." It's actually a bit frustrating.

As the previous comment said, "Many real people are like that."

Unfortunately, this EXACT type of story is all too common.

I just got through the game a few hours ago and I was immediately excited to see other people's thoughts and commentary on it and read some wonderful thoughts (including yours) and expand my thinking, but WHOOPS! Forgot we live in a society! So I have speedrun all the way to jaded unsurprise that the point would be missed this hard, because of course it was.

I can't speak for Johanna, THE WOMAN WHO WROTE THE STORY, for yet another impressive layer of woefully missing the point, but if I were her, I would be screaming into a pillow for a week. Or smothering people with it. Both, I like to keep things interesting.

You're engaging in good faith. They aren't. People who don't want to believe, won't want to believe, because they have that luxury. It's hilarious, heartbreaking, and infuriating that they are, very literally, proving the game's thesis in real time! Right now! Amazing! Art imitating life at its best, baby! /s

Honestly, the writing is just multiple layers of absolutely brilliant in that you can engage with the surface of it and still have a good time but it isn't REALLY what the game is actually about.

Regardless, I wanted to say thank you for taking the time and spending the energy to pen out your thoughts with references to what actually happens in the game, very articulately and thoughtfully. A lot of stuff was already clear to me but there were some things that were mindblowing to me too that you pointed out that were as delightful as they were very sobering. And it was also just very cathartic because I went looking for comments like yours to give me some glimmer of hope and I got a beacon instead.

Perfect example of emotionally invested person being unable to come to the facts, that we talked about earlier.

[Rumi]

you know you don't have to censor the word "raped", right? unless you're asking "So did Anya actually got retarded or is it something that the community decided happened?" instead? i haven't played the game, so maybe she actually did bump her head slightly too hard, but that doesn't seem to be the context of this post. rape isn't a bad word, it's just a plant, or a horrible act :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83OILqFV1gw

[💗Blaaashyyy💗]

Escrito originalmente por Something Hank:

Escrito originalmente por Brother Aurelius:

Your willful ignorance is funny, many people are talking about irl cases so there goes that argument. That and everyone just assumes this game has unreliable narrators cause it helps their argument aswell even though its never stated that a case for this game.

So how about you take a step back, get outside of your comfort thinking zone and expand your mind.

Bro ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ WHO is talking about that here that hasn't been disregarded as insane?

Like--- Do you not see the issue of taking /real life sexual assault cases/ into this discussion?

This is no longer a 'discussion about game', this is you being /very, very gross/.

So you're mad because he undermined your argument? Good to know. And now you only focus or trying to assassinate his character? Ok then.

[Kain]

Steam forums sometimes are more entertaining than gaming.

[💗Blaaashyyy💗]

Escrito originalmente por Rumi:

you know you don't have to censor the word "raped", right? unless you're asking "So did Anya actually got retarded or is it something that the community decided happened?" instead? i haven't played the game, so maybe she actually did bump her head slightly too hard, but that doesn't seem to be the context of this post. rape isn't a bad word, it's just a plant, or a horrible act :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83OILqFV1gw

That is not true at all that you can just say it. Valve doesn't have a problem with that, but subs run on their own rules, 90% of these rules aren't listed anywhere either. So you never know.

[Rumi]

Escrito originalmente por Blash:

Escrito originalmente por Rumi:

you know you don't have to censor the word "raped", right? unless you're asking "So did Anya actually got retarded or is it something that the community decided happened?" instead? i haven't played the game, so maybe she actually did bump her head slightly too hard, but that doesn't seem to be the context of this post. rape isn't a bad word, it's just a plant, or a horrible act :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83OILqFV1gw

That is not true at all that you can just say it. Valve doesn't have a problem with that, but subs run on their own rules, 90% of these rules aren't listed anywhere either. So you never know.

they woulda already taken dis down just for implying it then, i swear