Is it confirmed that Jimmy... (spoilers)

[CrabNicholson]

(spoilers)

Is it confirmed that Jimmy r-p'd Anya? Yes it can easily be argued that he did, because she had his child and was scared of him and constantly trying to protect herself from him, and because he had that massive freak-out and crashed the ship; but given the reactions of the other crew, it doesn't seem like a r-pist would be treated so casually. Given their blase reactions (like Curly going to Jimmy and telling him he'll help him fix it, or Swansea just generally not caring), it seemed to me more like Anya slept with Jimmy consensually (before the events we see on screen) and then only afterwards became afraid of him due to his unhinged and violent tendencies. If Jimmy was actively going around assaulting crew members from the start it seems more likely he would have been arrested by at least one of the other crew, either before or after the crash.

[Rocketeer]

that's pretty much the point, Jimmy did do that but it was curly that took no action against jimmy because of favoritism as jimmy was friends with curly and curly was responsible for jimmy basically being on the ship. Curly's agency as a person is taken away in irony to the fact that he had complete agency to deal with Jimmy as the captain of the ship, but did nothing. Thats why the gun on the ship is labeled for dealing with crew unrest too, to show curly could have done something.

[jra.470]

You could make a case that he didn't assault her, but there's more implication that he did and that's what most people believe. There's a few things that are inconsistent with it for example Swansea and Curly apparently not doing anything to protect Anya, and how the "TAKE RESPONSIBILITY" stage of the game seems way more focused on taking care of an unwanted pregnancy than facing the consequences of sexually assaulting somebody.

That being saId, Anya asked why there wasn't locks in the sleeping quarters but there was a lock on the medical room. Then after the crash when they're all using sleeping bags hers is untouched, implying that she slept in the medical room, which meant she had a reason to want a room with a lock on it, and the developers made a point to get that message across.

When Anya tells Curly she's pregnant, and he questions her, she says "Captain. I told you." I know there's no voice acting but this feels like her way of saying "How could you play dumb when I told you what he did to me" and her firmly addressing him as "Captain." is her reminding him that he is ultimately responsible for dealing with this.

Another thing about that interaction that points to it being assault is that Curly, in spite of his initial confusion, did know right away that Jimmy was the father, and Anya did tell Curly what had happened. Now I ask you if this relationship had been consensual why would Anya even feel the need to tell Curly about it before she found out she was pregnant? Why would it not just be kept private between her and Jimmy? The only reason she would have to tell Curly is if it had happened against her will, and even then if Anya had told him it happened consensually why was he so freaked out when she told him she was pregnant? Why was his gut reaction "We can fix this" and why was it even his responsibility to fix it if it was consensual?

So anyways yeah, that's pretty much why it's universally agreed upon that Jimmy assaulted Anya, but go back and form your own opinion on it. The devs recently came out and defended the people shipping them so there's that. I personally found it to have kind of a negative impact on the story but that's just me.

[CrabNicholson]

Well there is the usual workplace ethics implications of not sleeping with your subordinates or getting them pregnant, which is more of an embarrassment or career blunder than a crime; and there is also the fact that they were all fired, and now they have a child to look after. So Curly's "I'll help you fix it" could have been more like "I'll get you a new job" rather than "I'll help cover up a SA", and judging by the tone of the conversation Curly did seem more like he was implying the former rather than the latter. By the events of the story Anya is definitely afraid of Jimmy, but he's already openly hostile to her at that point and generally unhinged. It could be more a case of her being afraid of his reaction to her being pregnant, rather than afraid of him because of an SA. There is also the fact that Swansea is openly abrasive and speaks his mind constantly, but never brings it up at all even after talking to Anya in private.

[TTV/imperfect_rain]

No it's not. but there's nothing that directly makes it unlikely. In games like this where things aren't directly stated, usually it's to let players draw their own conclusions. I don't think anybody's interpretation is wrong as long as it's based on their own feelings. I'm split, it is very likely that the SA aspect is the developer intended canon, but a lot of the in-game info is up to interpretation.

What we have
-The Gun
-Locks on Door
-Conversations Between Anya/Curly
-Swansea Dialogue

There's a possibility that Anya/Jimmy had a consensual relationship pre-crash, but Jimmy ended up being an abusive pos which would be an extremely valid reason to be scared of him. Her fear about protecting herself could just stem from physical/emotional abuse rather than something purely sexual, and I believe that the developers at least wanted the players to consider this, or else they would have tightened the grip on interpretation. Jimmy is clearly VERY mentally unwell, but is he capable of something like that, no actual idea. What Swansea says (again intentionally vague) could either mean Anya told him he assaulted her, or she opened up about his abusive personality.

The whole "take responsibility" thing is language more in line with an unwanted pregnancy, but could also just be "take responsibility for assaulting someone and forcing this pregnancy onto them" again, intentionally hazy.

The developers wanted some things to be hazy to a point, and then cleared it up later; main example being that you're unsure if Curly/Jimmy crashed the ship until later, and the devs have stated that it was intentional and used to be a more focal idea. That goes to show that if they want players to know something, they will give info that lets us fully know, otherwise we can interpret what we want. The "fandom" as a whole is in a bad place rn, and there's A LOT of vitriol when it comes to any debate. It's unfortunate since the game itself is quite interesting, and you have a vocal group of people acting like treating Jimmy like a complex character similar to the rest of the cast means you're excusing assault. No, Jimmy did bad things, most of the cast did bad things, maybe not to his extent, but nobody in the game (okay Daisuke excluded :) ) was perfect.

People need to understand that people like the developers embrace the idea of players coming up with their own view of events. There's enough directly fed to the player that we know is canon, and everything else is just left to us to think about.

[CrabNicholson]

In reality there is a lot more grey area to abusive relationships than a dichotomy of "abusive" vs "loving", a person can be both abusive and loving and a woman can both want to be with a man while also being afraid of his dark side. Though by the events of the story, Anya wants to be away from Jimmy, Curly seems to view the things she does (such as stealing the gun) as being an over-reaction, and it seems to indicate that he thinks Anya and Jimmy are just having a lover's spat, rather than a violent crime taking place. Granted Anya might be justified in her fear, but if she was afraid of a r-pist I feel like Curly and the others would take her fears more seriously. In terms of story depth, I think that just having Jimmy being the town's resident r-pist takes away a lot of potential nuance from the story and makes it a pretty clear cut good guy-bad guy scenario instead of something more like what you will commonly see among people who are troubled or alcoholics. A lot of the time Jimmy does seem like his mood alternates between extreme outbursts and genuine attempts to make amends, though his methods of making amends are always flawed and increasingly insane as the story progresses, as the stressful situation he is in only compounds his pre-existing emotional dysregulation.

[.°• Sheep ༄𖦹]

Originally posted by CrabNicholson:

I feel like Curly and the others would take her fears more seriously.

this is the point of curly's character, he's oblivious and doesn't see what's going on for what it is. that's what the conversation about the dead pixel on the night time screen is about, he's only capable of seeing "bigger picture" and doesn't notice smaller, easier to miss details. remember, when he first finds out anya took the gun he doesn't even assume it has anything to do with jimmy, he thinks it's anya being suicidal. the idea that jimmy might be involved and negatively affecting her isn't a thing in his mind until she literally says as much to his face. there's also the fact that he's just kind of... dumb about jimmy? he seems convinced that jimmy's a good guy deep down and that he can help him out, while jimmy goes out of his way at every opportunity to prove otherwise. once anya spells things out and curly decides to confront jimmy he doesn't even really actually confront him, he engages in a completely unrelated conversation ("engages" is a strong word as he basically lets jimmy control the entire conversation) which ultimately ends with jimmy deciding to crash the ship, and curly more or less letting him. it's pretty clear that curly simply wasn't capable of handling the situation properly regardless of how much he knew, he's too willing to cut jimmy slack for anything meaningful to come from it. as for sanswea and daisuke, it's not that they knew and just didn't think it was a big deal, it's that they didn't know. anya didn't say anything pre-crash to them about it and jimmy certainly wouldn't have either. anya does end up telling sanswea post-crash (implied by finding them talking alone, as well as sanswea more or less confirming she told him later on while they're tending to daisuke's injuries) but at that point he's too apathetic (and probably drunk off of mouthwash) to do anything about it. daisuke i don't think ever found out, it was probably kept from him because the parties who knew didn't want him to worry (with the exception of jimmy, who's motive would be avoiding responsibility obviously), i'd like to think he would have tried to do something if he did know, though.

[TTV/imperfect_rain]

Originally posted by Scylla:

Originally posted by CrabNicholson:

I feel like Curly and the others would take her fears more seriously.

this is the point of curly's character, he's oblivious and doesn't see what's going on for what it is. that's what the conversation about the dead pixel on the night time screen is about, he's only capable of seeing "bigger picture" and doesn't notice smaller, easier to miss details. remember, when he first finds out anya took the gun he doesn't even assume it has anything to do with jimmy, he thinks it's anya being suicidal. the idea that jimmy might be involved and negatively affecting her isn't a thing in his mind until she literally says as much to his face. there's also the fact that he's just kind of... dumb about jimmy? he seems convinced that jimmy's a good guy deep down and that he can help him out, while jimmy goes out of his way at every opportunity to prove otherwise. once anya spells things out and curly decides to confront jimmy he doesn't even really actually confront him, he engages in a completely unrelated conversation ("engages" is a strong word as he basically lets jimmy control the entire conversation) which ultimately ends with jimmy deciding to crash the ship, and curly more or less letting him. it's pretty clear that curly simply wasn't capable of handling the situation properly regardless of how much he knew, he's too willing to cut jimmy slack for anything meaningful to come from it. as for sanswea and daisuke, it's not that they knew and just didn't think it was a big deal, it's that they didn't know. anya didn't say anything pre-crash to them about it and jimmy certainly wouldn't have either. anya does end up telling sanswea post-crash (implied by finding them talking alone, as well as sanswea more or less confirming she told him later on while they're tending to daisuke's injuries) but at that point he's too apathetic (and probably drunk off of mouthwash) to do anything about it. daisuke i don't think ever found out, it was probably kept from him because the parties who knew didn't want him to worry (with the exception of jimmy, who's motive would be avoiding responsibility obviously), i'd like to think he would have tried to do something if he did know, though.

Good point about the pixel, haven't actually considered that scene at all

[Shadowblade]

I'm of the opinion that Jimmy didn't necessarily SA Anya, I feel the two maybe had a consensual relationship at one point, or maybe even a one night fling that ended with Anya unknowingly becoming pregnant. And given as how unhinged Jimmy is, Anya js naturally just a little nervous around him. The no lock on the door comment could just be her being scared of Jimmy (not because of any SA) Or just scared in general. I know if I was locked in a giant box flying through space for 7 months I'd be a little scared too, and would probably want to lock my door when I go to bed.

[DiscoNemesis]

Yes.

[Gooxgox]

Nah, the theme of the story has been responsibility and our insecurities selfishly neglecting them. If she was SA'd by Jimmy, I don't think the rest of the crew would tolerate or overlook it and would take the situation seriously. Also, I honestly believe it would be a cheap cop out for shock value and poor writing.
Anya and Jimmy likely had a consensual relationship that went south. Jimmy's insecurities started to manifest in emotionally abusive ways towards the crew. Anya being the closest to him, saw the worst of it. I think when it comes to Anya, her theme when it comes to the story, is her neglect to nurture. Shown by her reluctance to treat Curly, her negligence at monitoring the mental health of others, and finally her unwanted pregnancy. The whole dead pixel on the TV screen was a commentary on both Curly's and Anya's character faults. Curly's is so focused on the mission, his career, and the crew as a whole that he misses the finer details in his life and how his actions or inactions affect others. While Anya is so focused with her own failed ambitions, her own feelings, and her own fears and insecurities, the things that only affect her, that she neglects her own responsibilities. Suicide is the ultimate selfish action, Her killing herself also killed the life inside her, since it follows her theme so perfectly.

[TTV/imperfect_rain]

Originally posted by Dao:

Nah, the theme of the story has been responsibility and our insecurities selfishly neglecting them. If she was SA'd by Jimmy, I don't think the rest of the crew would tolerate or overlook it and would take the situation seriously. Also, I honestly believe it would be a cheap cop out for shock value and poor writing.
Anya and Jimmy likely had a consensual relationship that went south. Jimmy's insecurities started to manifest in emotionally abusive ways towards the crew. Anya being the closest to him, saw the worst of it. I think when it comes to Anya, her theme when it comes to the story, is her neglect to nurture. Shown by her reluctance to treat Curly, her negligence at monitoring the mental health of others, and finally her unwanted pregnancy. The whole dead pixel on the TV screen was a commentary on both Curly's and Anya's character faults. Curly's is so focused on the mission, his career, and the crew as a whole that he misses the finer details in his life and how his actions or inactions affect others. While Anya is so focused with her own failed ambitions, her own feelings, and her own fears and insecurities, the things that only affect her, that she neglects her own responsibilities. Suicide is the ultimate selfish action, Her killing herself also killed the life inside her, since it follows her theme so perfectly.

I don't necessarily think he didn't SA her, but your way of looking at the characters feels pretty perfect and I like that interpretation

[.°• Sheep ༄𖦹]

Originally posted by Dao:

I think when it comes to Anya, her theme when it comes to the story, is her neglect to nurture. Shown by her reluctance to treat Curly, her negligence at monitoring the mental health of others, and finally her unwanted pregnancy.

extremely poor interpretation of her character tbh, do not see it at all.

she doesn't neglect curly, she's the person single-handedly keeping him alive for a majority of their time post-crash. i understand interpreting her this way given her avoidance of the painkillers, but that's a singular aspect of his treatment and considering what possibly happened with jimmy i think it's fair to say she has justifiable reasons to be uncomfortable with it. i've mentioned this before in other threads, but there is something noteworthy about how she's never gotten into nursing school and yet she's able to keep curly alive in his state using basic, likely cheap medical supplies and nothing else.

not sure what you mean by neglecting the crew's mental health? she performs regular psych evals as instructed, the only person she struggles with is jimmy and it's because he's non-compliant and intentionally dismissive of her.

as for her feelings about the pregnancy... blaming her for being less than thrilled about it feels a little uh... insensitive, lol.

calling her selfish, or interpreting the dead pixel scene as her only being able to focus on things that "directly affect her" feels a little nonsensical, and ultimately based on nothing. i don't think anya is meant to be another example of avoiding responsibility, i think she (and daisuke as well) is meant to be an example of how people avoiding their responsibilities can directly, and severely, negatively impact somebody. curly (unintentionally) avoids responsibility by failing to hold jimmy accountable for his treatment of her, jimmy avoids responsibility for his treatment of her by blaming her and making excuses for it, sanswea is intentionally apathetic and avoids responsibility by convincing himself none of it matters, and all three of them hurt anya in some way by doing so.

as for the comment about her being selfish for killing herself while pregnant... i don't have anything to say here that wouldn't be incredibly rude or pointlessly aggressive, so i'll hold my tongue, but jesus christ lol.

[CrabNicholson]

I figured that Anya was closer to Curly than Jimmy by the timeframe of the game. Any idea of what kind of relationships Anya had with the rest of the crew is speculative, but it's possible she was "with" him at that point. It doesn't seem like Anya isn't nurturing, it seemed more like Anya was anguished at Curly's state, and that is why she couldn't feed him his painkillers. I suppose she was the one bandaging him and feeding him his regular food, so I am not sure what special significance the painkillers have. In a game with a major theme of alcoholism I'm surprised that painkillers never came up explicitly as part of that theme of substance abuse. Maybe while caring for Curly, Jimmy's slipping a few pills for himself and it's helping mellow him out, so Anya was subtly encouraging it by leaving him alone with the meds?

It seems Jimmy DID try to take care of Anya. The scene where she is considering drinking a bottle of mouthwash shows his concern. The implication is - drinking while pregnant is harmful to the baby - so his concern implies that he wants to help her raise the baby. Jimmy also sacrificed Daisuke to try to save Anya. So there are recurring themes of him trying to take responsibility for her. There's also the implication that after she died, he tried in his madness to save the foetus (represented as a horse). Only after everyone else died, he tried to save Curly.

[.°• Sheep ༄𖦹]

Originally posted by CrabNicholson:

I figured that Anya was closer to Curly than Jimmy by the timeframe of the game. Any idea of what kind of relationships Anya had with the rest of the crew is speculative, but it's possible she was "with" him at that point. It doesn't seem like Anya isn't nurturing, it seemed more like Anya was anguished at Curly's state, and that is why she couldn't feed him his painkillers. I suppose she was the one bandaging him and feeding him his regular food, so I am not sure what special significance the painkillers have. In a game with a major theme of alcoholism I'm surprised that painkillers never came up explicitly as part of that theme of substance abuse. Maybe while caring for Curly, Jimmy's slipping a few pills for himself and it's helping mellow him out, so Anya was subtly encouraging it by leaving him alone with the meds?

i didn't really get this vibe with anya and curly, they're friendly, but that felt like the extent of it. the painkillers have significance because they have to be forced down his throat, and the entire time he chokes and gags,. if you believe jimmy sexually assaulted anya (which i feel is what happened) then her discomfort with the pills would be tied to the choking and gagging, as well as having to forcefully grab him and hold him down while forcing his mouth open to administer them. as for feeding him, we don't really see them eat anything except non-solid foods post crash, so i don't think the same level of force would be necessary.

i don't know about jimmy sneaking the painkillers for himself, considering we play the game from his pov i feel like it would have been more explicitly obvious that it was happening if it was. anya's attitude towards giving curly the pills doesn't feel like how somebody would act if they were trying to subtly encourage somebody else to take them, especially considering the first time jimmy gives curly the pills anya has to run out of the room and is next seem on the floor either panicking or suffering from some kind of nausea (or potentially both). jimmy's attitude doesn't ever really seem to change before and after giving curly his pills either, so i don't think that's what's going on.

Originally posted by CrabNicholson:

It seems Jimmy DID try to take care of Anya. The scene where she is considering drinking a bottle of mouthwash shows his concern. The implication is - drinking while pregnant is harmful to the baby - so his concern implies that he wants to help her raise the baby. Jimmy also sacrificed Daisuke to try to save Anya. So there are recurring themes of him trying to take responsibility for her. There's also the implication that after she died, he tried in his madness to save the foetus (represented as a horse). Only after everyone else died, he tried to save Curly.

i don't think it's concern we're seeing, he doesn't try to talk her out of it and doesn't make much of a comment on it at all outside of his initial question. i feel like it's more surprise than anything, he probably felt that even if she didn't like him she'd still go through with the pregnancy, so the implication that she's as apprehensive about it as he is is worth noting to him.

as for the rest of his behavior, it's important to remember that jimmy has this weird complex where he wants to be the "captain", the rock everyone turns to who always does the right thing and saves everybody, but he doesn't actually want to put in the effort and doesn't actually care about their well being. he wants respect and admiration, but doesn't want to earn it. sending daisuke into the vents is evidence of this two-fold, he's too cowardly to do it himself and he's willing to potentially sacrifice daisuke's life to accomplish his goal. there's something to be said about the fact that it's almost certainly too late for them to actually save anya anyway, they likely wasted too much time making the cocktail for sanswea and debating about actually going inside the vent (also worth noting that jimmy convinces daisuke here using his own insecurities, promising daisuke that he'll be brave and a hero for going through with it). as for the fetus bit during his hallucinations, again i feel like this is something else, the way the "fetus" reacts when you focus on it implies distress and discomfort, and it actively moves to avoid whatever we're doing to it, i think this is him trying to kill it, since he likely sees it as the source of all of his problems (he never would have thought to crash the ship if he hadn't gotten anya pregnant), but he's too late and he's forced to deal with it head-on regardless, resulting in the vent chase. him "saving" curly (this is not saving him, pony express is defunct and absolutely will not be sending help, all he's done is prolong curly's misery for 20 years) is his last resort because he's failed everywhere else, and in recognition of this failure he takes his own life, finally realizing that he was the problem that needed to be fixed (far too late for it to mean anything unfortunately).

[.°• Sheep ༄𖦹]

would like to add that i hope i'm not coming across as too aggressive or anything, i'm just very passionate about this game and it's characters and like discussing them lol.