Frustrations at 81-82

[duncan6894]

I think the developer needs to work on the scope creep that the game has. At this point, it is almost too confusing to figure out what needs to be done or what level something should be at.

At this point, there is almost no wiki information or guides, any information about where you need to be for a level, what next step should be done or even suggestions about how is best to advance, *all of which* can be done from a data perspective in game. Even the stats and info doesn't have updated information, like if you don't have the capital shard selected in the battle menu.

The way retrofitting end game is almost worthless and even counter productive. If you use a loadout from the "QOL" it automatically forces you into the highest weapon form rather than letting you select something that might be better. If you spend time building salvage to get weapons and shields up, retrofitting deletes all progress. You spend time doing computing and have to prestige and all the gains you made are gone.

You spend a run doing research/warp/bases and see small incremental improvements, move to the next sector and can't even progress past the first wave because you may have selected the wrong weapon/shield/option so you can't even gather resources there.

Focusing on the next shiny new thing rather than actually playing the game from the start, seeing where there is an information deficit and either updating the wiki or putting even a simple "your warp/research/base/crew/synth/fixture/reactor/compute/core is too low for this area" as a pointer to where to focus rather than flailing, letting the game run, maybe getting one incremental upgrade a day then seeing if there is any progression is pretty much worthless and completely frustrating from an end user perspective.

[Kyouko Tsukino]

Retrofitting shouldn't be deleting all progress at the point you're in. I'm at that same point. There's an upgrade (Base 3) that gives back 25% of what was spent on core upgrades. Considering how upgrade costs grow exponentially, that means you can automatically get back to almost the same point you were at.

Retrofitting is far from worthless either way. You can use Reconstruction Specialist to speed up sleeve generation, which will let you change your whole crew setups several times, allowing for several 'focused' tasks in one prestige. I use that to synth components I don't automatically max out yet, to increase my survival chances and be able to stay at higher sectors. Then I switch to a resource farming setup to try and get my weapons as close to maxed out as possible (T5 can get to level 90+ with enough time.)
Then I switch to computing to make my fighters actually do something. After that, depending on what I want to do, I switch my crew and devices to maximize whatever I want to work on.

Also, I don't manually run warps unless I see the numbers in them are way weaker than mine - I let the game run them automatically when I go to sleep, setting up so it takes less than one hour per core to charge up, which basically gives me six or seven warp runs without having to do a thing.

I also use the game as a background app, so I'm not worried about things taking a few hours to get done. I'll be shouting at dragons, or robbing banks, or forcing weird monsters to fight each other for money and glory, or something else.

Heck, it was only one week ago that I got the first reinforce, took me at least a month to get to sector 80 last time, so thing are definitely speeding up by a lot. If that continues on subsequent reinforces, it's going to be (slightly annoying at times) fun.

[76561199215865625]

Originally posted by duncan6894:

I think the developer needs to work on the scope creep that the game has. At this point, it is almost too confusing to figure out what needs to be done or what level something should be at.

At this point, there is almost no wiki information or guides, any information about where you need to be for a level, what next step should be done or even suggestions about how is best to advance, *all of which* can be done from a data perspective in game. Even the stats and info doesn't have updated information, like if you don't have the capital shard selected in the battle menu.

there are too many ways to improve, different player completion stats vary, and reworks make old info useless

Originally posted by duncan6894:

The way retrofitting end game is almost worthless and even counter productive. If you use a loadout from the "QOL" it automatically forces you into the highest weapon form rather than letting you select something that might be better. If you spend time building salvage to get weapons and shields up, retrofitting deletes all progress. You spend time doing computing and have to prestige and all the gains you made are gone.

while in battle cruiser, retrofitting refunds 100% of all spent resources. compute also scales terrible with time in r1+ so you shouldnt farm compute for very long(you are also nowhere near lategame)

Originally posted by duncan6894:

You spend a run doing research/warp/bases and see small incremental improvements, move to the next sector and can't even progress past the first wave because you may have selected the wrong weapon/shield/option so you can't even gather resources there.

core loadout is not as important(unless you use 4.0 weapons instead of 5.0 or something like that). its much easier to increase damage/shields through other systems

Originally posted by duncan6894:

Focusing on the next shiny new thing rather than actually playing the game from the start, seeing where there is an information deficit and either updating the wiki or putting even a simple "your warp/research/base/crew/synth/fixture/reactor/compute/core is too low for this area" as a pointer to where to focus rather than flailing, letting the game run, maybe getting one incremental upgrade a day then seeing if there is any progression is pretty much worthless and completely frustrating from an end user perspective.

the updates/reworks make this game easier. a pointer like that removes almost all choices you can make in this game and you literally just push whatever the game tells you to

[Kyouko Tsukino]

Originally posted by ryan180322:

while in battle cruiser, retrofitting refunds 100% of all spent resources. compute also scales terrible with time in r1+ so you shouldnt farm compute for very long(you are also nowhere near lategame)

Oh, I must have read the battle cruiser text while half-asleep, because I didn't see that. No wonder it's so easy to 'get back' all improvements after a retrofit.

Also agreeing on core loadout. I'm still using two kinetic, one missile, one disruptor, one beam laser and one bomb, and as long as I at least have close enough damage than the enemy's shields (which is easy with T5 weapons/shields) I'll chew through anything that wasn't going to 1-shot me anyways (namely, mostly the capital ship.)

[phenir]

I'll write you a guide right now.
Step 1: max out a mechanic
step 2: wait for 30 minutes or whatever time you want
step 3: repeat from step 1 with a different mechanic.

[duncan6894]

Originally posted by ryan180322:

while in battle cruiser, retrofitting refunds 100% of all spent resources. compute also scales terrible with time in r1+ so you shouldnt farm compute for very long

Unless your game is different than mine, no it doesn't. All of the core weapons reset, some is refunded but not 100%

Originally posted by ryan180322:

the updates/reworks make this game easier. a pointer like that removes almost all choices you can make in this game and you literally just push whatever the game tells you to

Direction is what I'm asking for. An idle game should have some progression, not just running in the background using CPU resources. If the user is missing something important, it should be at least referenced that it is missing.

Originally posted by ryan180322:

(you are also nowhere near lategame)

Agreed from what I can see, but if so then there should be *ALOT* more information. This information should come from the game, but at the absolute bare minimum it should be on a wiki. As with all idle games, the numbers being used are almost irrelevant because they are so large. I swap a device, a number changes, is it good or bad? I change a module, another number changes, good or bad? Check the "Info" page, no information. Maybe it says something is missing, maybe it doesn't.

I refer to this: warp/research/base/crew/synth/fixture/reactor/compute/core as things that need to be checked and possibly improved. Or you can spend a day trying to increase something that doesn't need to be increased with no information. I have base 1 at 1.09e22x, is that good enough for now? Do I need to let it idle on base generation for a day again to get 1.5x more? Who knows, because the game gives NO information about what my progress is.

There are so many options it becomes scope creep to figure out what is happening. And ALL of it can be something that the dev puts some time into, since he knows what the numbers will be needed for progression and not just wasting CPU cycles

[76561199215865625]

in stats&info->misc->retrofit cost recuperation. if it says 1 that means its 100%. make sure your compute isnt draining too much salvage and turn off crew xp autobuy(the one that costs salvage)
base 1 1e22(done)
base 2 1e12
base 3 1e6
base 4 4e3
s82 is a bit of a wall yes but not a week long wall. s83 unlocks a system upgrade that will help you reach s85

[Sparkled]

Originally posted by duncan6894:

Originally posted by ryan180322:

while in battle cruiser, retrofitting refunds 100% of all spent resources. compute also scales terrible with time in r1+ so you shouldnt farm compute for very long

Unless your game is different than mine, no it doesn't. All of the core weapons reset, some is refunded but not 100%

I have a guess. Before you refit go to the crew page and uncheck the auto buy for crew XP. It's being refunded, but it's getting spent there before you have a chance to re-buy things.

[Sylv]

I am not opposed to better in game guidance, in fact the upcoming minor rework patch has some things to improve pain points (those being challenges and the task list). But nothing like your suggestion here.

The issue with telling you what system you are behind on, is that its not really possible to have anything even close to granular enough to handle that I think. While you do need to improve all the systems you have, you can generally push a good bit while neglecting some slightly or at least being suboptimal about it. I just dont know how I'd get a concrete "You are at 82, your base 4 should be e20x and A/F research on row 13" or something. Some SUPER loose thing that triggers when a system is waaaaaaaay too low could be doable, but the risk even there is if one is a bit off, you have the game providing incorrect directions. Or at least misleading, as Synth Speed being way too low could be a result of your research being too low but not quite triggering whatever the cutoff is, but the game tells you to focus synth not research etc.

If I had a way to do some light guidance, that wont be innacurate and is realistically implementable in a way that wont potentially break on balance tweaks etc, I would do it. I just cant figure a way. The way you progress is just not quite linear enough in sense of raw stat numbers.

I am unsure what you mean by the stats & info not having updated information. It should show you any optional stat upgrade you are not using, otherwise thats just a bug that needs fixing.

[Tech Enthusiast]

Originally posted by phenir:

I'll write you a guide right now.
Step 1: max out a mechanic
step 2: wait for 30 minutes or whatever time you want
step 3: repeat from step 1 with a different mechanic.

It may not come across as best advise, but it really is.
No matter the creep of features and functions you get, the principle remains the same.

At the start you have like 2 or 3 systems, you max em out and repeat.
In the mid game you have 5-8 systems that interact with eachother. So the order in which you max them, becomes a point you should think about. BUT: You don't have to. Just circle them all in whatever order and you will advance. Just slower if you don't wanna think about it.
In the end game nothing really changes. Some systems vanish, some new emerge... you have more than 8 at most points and you just circle max em all.

There is no big need for a wiki either. What would the wiki tell you anyways? You need to max each system and move to the next... repeat untill you beat what you want to beat, then you get a new system, max that out...

[Gene]

I hit the same wall. Completely forgot to update my bases. So thanks for the thread, all.
OP, phenir's advice is the answer. I plan to follow it.

[Neferneith]

Same, I'm always neglecting the bases.

Side question, on R1 massive reactor (83) and massive warp unlock a lot of crew mastery bonus. It would be possible to raise to mastery 3 with planning and a bit of time. But seing that R2 is at sector 85, I wonder if mastery 3 is to be left in R2 and sector 85 to be rushed as soon as possible.

[Tech Enthusiast]

Mastery 3 is not needed before r3.
Mastery is infact kinda strange when it comes to Reinforce. You kinda get the r-perk to have it at the same level as you got it, right after you get it.
So shortly before you get mastery 3 for free, you will have done it. I did it like 5min before that lol.

Even more extreme with base 5: The R-Perk that unlocked the whole grid came before I unlocked the last 4 slots myself ;-)

[Gene]

After that base run, I got T5 weapons. WTAF?! My bottleneck is now capital damage, and it's not even close. Small ships dying with Small set to 5%. Is there a hack for capital weapons on the same level somewhere?

I got 2 M3s while derdling last prestige.

[Neferneith]

Before 83 , you can get Capital damage/shield by farming pulverium/thinganium, with Synth, with alternate synth and with massive warp perks (and a bit with massive science IIRC)

If i'm not mistaken, the Capital/Small slider in core page is dangerous. You can gain a little boost if you lack a bit of balance but you lose far more in one than you gain in the other.

[Kyouko Tsukino]

A couple hours farming sector 76 (for quicker pulverium/fortifium) or sector 82 (if you want your crew quarters to do anything at all) can let you get quite far into the capital core upgrades. I do that while I'm synthing up my modules (have less and less to work on each run, getting more of them to infinite) and farming non-capital core upgrades (Cyb Spec+Mat Eng+Logistic M+Rec Specialist) and that also lets me farm biosleeves, so later on I can switch to research, compute, bases or whatever else I want to strengthen in the same prestige.

As a side note: Experimental Material is evil. I got it to level 12 but still, kill it with fire, I say.