Them really?

[Antera]

"Has a tendency to give up on their own desires and put others before themself."
WTF does this means? is MC Dude or Chick?

[Wolfberry]

Escrito originalmente por The Grungler:

The original Japanese text goes out of its way to avoid gendered pronouns for the purposes of allowing anyone to self-insert. I don't get why people can't understand this concept. The localizers didn't use "they" to serve some kind of "agenda". It's literally the path of least resistance in the English language to avoid using gendered pronouns. It was simply a way to preserve the basic concept the Japanese devs were going for, in a way that was available in a local language. That's the precise thing localizers are paid to do. "They" is a singular, non-gendered pronoun in English. People didn't have a problem with this stuff until a few years ago. Hell, my mother is an English teacher and if I use the singular "they" in a sentence, she doesn't lose her ♥♥♥♥, because get this, it's grammatically correct to use "they" in a singular manner and has always been in the English language. The majority of people I'm seeing having an issue with this are non-native English speakers. I understand that your native language likely forces use of gendered pronouns and that might make understanding parts of the English translation difficult, but English and Japanese allow people to use non-gendered language if they so choose. Broaden your horizons and stop thinking everything is designed to upset you.

People now seeing fear mongering over pronouns and gender for a dumb culture war grift also leads to witch hunts that hurt the people they claim to protect

[Wolfberry]

Again, this is a game about hot women with big boobies who want to smoke hookah, why the ♥♥♥♥ are you crying about pronouns. Enjoy the boobies

[Shea McD]

so like, does them being Non Binary stick through the entire game? Don't wanna be playing it then like 90% of the way through they just reveal they're a guy or something.

[MiaowGaiGar]

Man, the amount of effort people go through to be offended on principle.

[The Grungler]

Escrito originalmente por Shea McD:

so like, does them being Non Binary stick through the entire game? Don't wanna be playing it then like 90% of the way through they just reveal they're a guy or something.

The game is consistent in avoiding using gendered pronouns for the protagonist except for in one line in the game, and I have to assume that's a translation error for the line because it uses Toru's name instead in that line in the Japanese text and like I said, the game is consistent through the whole thing besides that. In the Japanese text, they have no problem using female pronouns for the girls, but they actively avoid it for Toru and either refer to them by first or last name. In English, it feels weird to constantly avoid pronouns and call someone by their name in every sentence, so the English localizers used they/them/their as well as Toru's name to make things not sound like a crazy person was talking.

[v1ckxy]

Escrito originalmente por The Grungler:

The original Japanese text goes out of its way to avoid gendered pronouns for the purposes of allowing anyone to self-insert. I don't get why people can't understand this concept. The localizers didn't use "they" to serve some kind of "agenda". It's literally the path of least resistance in the English language to avoid using gendered pronouns. It was simply a way to preserve the basic concept the Japanese devs were going for, in a way that was available in a local language. That's the precise thing localizers are paid to do. "They" is a singular, non-gendered pronoun in English. People didn't have a problem with this stuff until a few years ago. Hell, my mother is an English teacher and if I use the singular "they" in a sentence, she doesn't lose her ♥♥♥♥, because get this, it's grammatically correct to use "they" in a singular manner and has always been in the English language. The majority of people I'm seeing having an issue with this are non-native English speakers. I understand that your native language likely forces use of gendered pronouns and that might make understanding parts of the English translation difficult, but English and Japanese allow people to use non-gendered language if they so choose. Broaden your horizons and stop thinking everything is designed to upset you.

Few things:
First. As I stated some time ago during a meeting, as we do not encompass everything with a simple "the" word:

If you want simplicity, just use english 😃!
the boy, the girl, the car, the house, the keys

... so English should not be a reference for anything*.
It's simple enough* that not wanting to use one damned pronoun for a small boy (neither a macho man or a chulazo/ikemen) is even insulting.

And having said that...

Please go and travel to japan, go to arajuku, and meet the visual kei scene!

It seems like no one has seen guys who look like that.
Damn, it was totally normal 15-20 years ago, when the goth scene was more alive than now. It was somewhat similar with emo. 🤣

But of course, considering English speaking countries 🤔 ... those will be like unicorns nowadays, depending on the country.

// *AS Japanese as soon as you forget about formality 😊

[HimeAria]

Amazing how all these non-native English speakers can convince themselves they know more about the English language than native speakers....all so they can be pissed the ♥♥♥♥ off over literally nothing.

None of this is about being "woke". It's about "self-insert". Get over yourselves.

[HimeAria]

Escrito originalmente por v1ckxy:

Please go and travel to japan, go to arajuku, and meet the visual kei scene!

It seems like no one has seen guys who look like that.

IIRC, visual kei isn't about being purposefully ambiguous so that others can self-insert onto you, so I don't know why you think it's somehow relevant to the MC of this game?

Preeeeeeeetty sure the person you think has never seen visual kei before has, in fact, seen visual kei plenty of times before. I'm willing to bet they even know a thing or two about the culture.

[v1ckxy]

Escrito originalmente por HimeAria:

Escrito originalmente por v1ckxy:

Please go and travel to japan, go to arajuku, and meet the visual kei scene!

It seems like no one has seen guys who look like that.

IIRC, visual kei isn't about being purposefully ambiguous so that others can self-insert onto you, so I don't know why you think it's somehow relevant to the MC of this game?

Preeeeeeeetty sure the person you think has never seen visual kei before has, in fact, seen visual kei plenty of times before. I'm willing to bet they even know a thing or two about the culture.

Are you seriously answering that?

Gal, what can I say to you... you're from iu-es-ei, I am from the other side of the globe, and probably lived twice than you.

The guy looks like an ¿emo? or like some of us looked at as how we dressed at the beginning of the century (well, actually I don't know anyone who wore barbed wire, but instead, chains)

Those are just examples, given that it looks like nobody saw a not-macho male in his life. 🤔 TBH he looks EXACTLY like my cousin 15 years ago -but with silver hair instead of pure black-.

[HimeAria]

Escrito originalmente por v1ckxy:

Escrito originalmente por HimeAria:

IIRC, visual kei isn't about being purposefully ambiguous so that others can self-insert onto you, so I don't know why you think it's somehow relevant to the MC of this game?

Preeeeeeeetty sure the person you think has never seen visual kei before has, in fact, seen visual kei plenty of times before. I'm willing to bet they even know a thing or two about the culture.

Are you seriously answering that?

Gal, what can I say to you... you're from iu-es-ei, I am from the other side of the globe, and probably lived twice than you.

The guy looks like an ¿emo? or like some of us looked at as how we dressed at the beginning of the century (well, actually I don't know anyone who wore barbed wire, but instead, chains)

Those are just examples, given that it looks like nobody saw a not-macho male in his life. 🤔

...and?

You think I dont' know anything about this stuff because I'm "probably" younger than you and because I live in a different country? Get the ♥♥♥♥ over yourself. We live in a digital age. I've been exposed to all sorts of different cultures and have learned quite a lot about them. I go OUT OF MY WAY to learn about different cultures.

Maybe learn about other cultures/languages yourself before screaming at everyone else about how little we supposedly know about other cultures.

[v1ckxy]

Escrito originalmente por HimeAria:

Escrito originalmente por v1ckxy:

Are you seriously answering that?

Gal, what can I say to you... you're from iu-es-ei, I am from the other side of the globe, and probably lived twice than you.

The guy looks like an ¿emo? or like some of us looked at as how we dressed at the beginning of the century (well, actually I don't know anyone who wore barbed wire, but instead, chains)

Those are just examples, given that it looks like nobody saw a not-macho male in his life. 🤔

...and?

You think I dont' know anything about this stuff because I'm "probably" younger than you and because I live in a different country? Get the ♥♥♥♥ over yourself. We live in a digital age. I've been exposed to all sorts of different cultures and have learned quite a lot about them. I go OUT OF MY WAY to learn about different cultures.

Maybe learn about other cultures/languages yourself before screaming at everyone else about how little we supposedly know about other cultures.

I'm not saying younger, I'm saying that I double you 🤣
You know, I was hearing XJapan and DeG in the 90's, jfyi.

Anyway! One question:

Shall we call it cousin-insert instead?

Looks like my cousin when he was... 20.

[HimeAria]

Escrito originalmente por v1ckxy:

Escrito originalmente por HimeAria:

...and?

You think I dont' know anything about this stuff because I'm "probably" younger than you and because I live in a different country? Get the ♥♥♥♥ over yourself. We live in a digital age. I've been exposed to all sorts of different cultures and have learned quite a lot about them. I go OUT OF MY WAY to learn about different cultures.

Maybe learn about other cultures/languages yourself before screaming at everyone else about how little we supposedly know about other cultures.

I'm not saying younger, I'm saying that I double you 🤣
You know, I was hearing XJapan and DeG in the 90's, jfyi.

Anyway! One question:

Shall we call it cousin-insert instead?

Looks like my cousin when he was... 20.

There's only so far they can make a MC a "blank slate" for self-insert without making the MC TOO blank.

Personally, I don't look at the clothes as "I would never wear this ever!!!". I look at them as "this looks like what I would probably wear if I lived in this story's world" So I can still self-insert, even if it's not my personal style.

I would also never wear outfits that looked like I just slapped random straps of fabric on my body at random, but then again I don't live in a JRPG world

[Wolfberry]

This thread smells like funions and clapdat im out

[batmaia]

from my pov they made toru androgynous and do not label them with any specific gender so the players can see themselves on Toru, so it doesn't matter, it's up to the player and i liked that.

[Nev Nev]

A game for homosexuals