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Feeling something and something actually happening are two different things, I'm saying the bullying isn't happening and your feeling it is.
Of course your free to feel however you like and your free to think however you want to in regards to this ruling but I think you are deliberately making it a bullying and others are arrogant issue so you can justify their points as being otherwise motivated. But I fear that even if "the actual person from FFG" comes forward you will just not believe them anyway. So with that its best if I (and I sudjest anyone else) leave you to your reasoning.
I am not blindly arguing against "any ruling I don't like". What "ruling" are you talking about anyway?
I have been trying to analyse the problem of what happens when a Mind Steal Spell is cast on another character that personally possesses the Counterspell, that is all. My contributions are to that end and nothing else. I don't claim to be an authority, just someone interested in the discussion. I just want to understand what happens when a Mind Steal meets a Counterspell. I am in search of the truth on this, not in winning an argument or proving other people "wrong" and me "right". If others make a contribution that advances the search for truth on this conundrum then I will read it and if it is closer to the truth than my contributions then I will accept it, so I don't know what you mean by arguing against "any ruling I don't like".
As to me "sticking my head in the sand" what are you referring to here ? The phrase "sticking my head on the sand" means that I am deliberately ignoring reality. So, Count Dandyman, what reality am I supposedly deliberately ignoring ?
So please explain: what "ruling" are you referring to, and what reality am I avoiding by supposedly "sticking my head in the sand" ?
I have explained this to you previously.
The reality is that we cannot wait for "the FFG people" to issue the official rulings, because they almost never do. It would be a perfect standard, but it is untenable.
The reality is that it falls to Nomad to implement the rules any way they see fit.
The reality is that we, the community, people who use their product, can suggest changes and argue about rules, but ultimately, Nomad decides here.
That the rulesmakers at FFG let the discussion stand without comment indicates that they agree with the conclusions drawn in the end. I.E., Counterspell (and Reflection) negate Mind Steal before it has any effect.
I agree that FFG do not seem to be interested anymore in putting out official rulings, which is unfortunate, but that doesn't mean that they have surrendered their ownership of the game and their right to be the only authority on the rules. However in the absence of FFG official rulings Nomad Games can make temporary rulings but they are only ever temporary unless Nomad Games declares that they are no longer going to try to follow the board game by making an "accurate representation" of the board game as they declare on their internet site. Then Nomad Games will become an authority of their own product. In a sense unofficially Nomad Games are an authority of their own product anyway but it is not official as long as they continue to say they are replicating the board game.
And yes, I agree, the "community" can offer any suggestions they wish but these "suggestios" are not rulings, and they do not have any authority.
But listen Fugur14, I want to return to your points earlier, for they were interesting.
First If there is a time lag then how long is it and where is it mentioned in the rules ? I notice that in the Digital version of Talisman a time lag is given but this is something Nomad Games decided upon to allow players to cast their spells because otherwise it would be frustrating to cast a spell sometimes because things would go too quickly.
But this doesn't mean that a time lag actually exists in the board game. And it is the board game that I am basing my argument upon as Nomad Games says it is replicating the board game.
On the other hand if there isn't a time lag then, yes, you are right, the Counterspell does negate the spell immediately, but only if it can be cast ! And since I argue that once the Mind Steal is cast on another character's personal spells then if there is a Counterspell or two in that target character's personal hand of spells that Counterspell or Counterspells cannot be cast at that moment because the Mind Steal hasn't finished until the target spell is taken and the Mind Steal is replaced by the stolen spell and the MInd Steal itself is discarded. As I wrote earlier the only Counterspell that could be used to counter the Mind Steal must be a Counterspell that comes from outside the target character's own personal hand of spells because such a Counterspell is not being affected by the Mind Steal, that is how it would, and should, work, in my opinion.
As to your Divination Spell argument that is interesting but again if spells take affect immediately then the Divination Spell would not be able to be successfully cast if a Counterspell counterspelled it since the Counterspell would also take effect immediately. The Counterspell would have to be cast immediately or held to be cast immediately by the players after the Divination Spell was cast (once again I am talking here about the board game which is the what Nomad games says they are replicating online). In my board game experience when a player casts a spell other than the Mind Steal and another player casts a Counterspell all the Players in my group recognized that the Counterspell counterspelled the first cast spell but it had to be seen and held to be straight after the first spell was cast. I think that that is the key here: the spells do take effect in theory immediately that they are cast and a Counterspell cast on a Divinination Spell would immediately cancel the Divination but the Counterspell has to be cast immediately or be held by the other players to have been cast immediately. I think that that is probably the best solution.
Sorry but I don't agree that once a Spell is cast it cannot be countered. That would make Counterspells useless and they must have some use, it is just determining how they can be used that is the question.
As to the Alchemy Spell I think that if it is to be Counterspelled it must be done immediately. Once the Alchemise Spell alchemises one or more Objects it is too late. It is similar to the way the Command Spell works in realtion to the Counterspell. However even though there might be a time lag in play if the players in the board game see that the Counterspell was intended to be cast immediately after the Alchemise Spell was cast, or in the Digital version of Talisman, if the time lag in the game is not used up, then the Counterspell still takes effect and cancels the Alchemise Spell, that's how I see it at this time.
But in the end if there is a time lag allowed then what is it and when does it end ?
Counterspell should counter any spell, like explained by several people here, maybe the devs are just not aware of this issue.....
Now. In the board game this is not that important. Because in board game, players are capable of "rewinding" the game state, to some extent, go mentally back a few seconds and change the result of something that already happened if someone wants to interact with it.
This is not possible in DE. Thus the counterspell timer that artificially extends that little time interval that must theoretically exist, in order to give the players a chance to react at the rules-appropriate time.
Let me ask this: does anybody play the Mind Steal+Counterspell interaction in board game the way it's currently implemented in DE? I would think that it would be more normal for players to fire off a Counterspell before they let the other player touch their Spells with his grubby hands.
The rule makers at FFG might or might not be monitoring this dscussion but if they are monitoring this discussion their lack of committment or comment doesn't mean that they agree that a Counterspell negates a Mind Steal. Silence is not agreement with a certain position, it is just silence.
Bear in mind that this is a person that, if I remember correctly, once accused me of being corrupted by power when I tried to explain the role of community in determining the correct rulings.
Anyway, i linked this thread to the beta test thread and believe me we will get a answer soon from a dev about this issue ;=)
Yes, but it won't be the official FFG dev, and therefore his answer will be ignored.
We still have some rules, that doesnt fit the FFG rules, but in a digital version you have to make changes, i remember a testing game with the city when i was able to make 150 turns in a row (without the chance that another player could react).
So i now for sure that the devs arnt that rule gurus at all, sometimes they just need a hint or a helping hand (fe natural rolls).
But you and your friends in the "community" ARE corrupted by power, Fulgur14, if you and your friends in the "community" think that you are the authority. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Those in this discussion who keep telling me that I am "plain wrong" and that they are "100% correct" are examples of power corrupting people in this "community". The "community" is not the authority, just a group of gamers who play a game and talk to each other, nothing more. You can all make suggestions about how the game might be improved or bugs fixed, like I sometimes do, but that doesn't make anyone in the "community" the authority. FFG is the authority, they make the game, they make the rules.
If only FFG would release a new FAQ, that would help here, I think, to re-establish credibility as the only authority in the minds of those in the "community" who are having doubts. Because FFG have not released any more FAQs since 2011 it does contribute to a sense that FFG have given up caring, I think, but I still believe that they are the authority. I am still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. After all they haven't said that they have surrended their authority to anyone else so they must still be the authority as far as I know.
The developers at Nomad Games are only human and can take advice from other people, that is true, but that doesn't mean that FFG have surrendered their authority, that is my argument here.