Shape Shifter

[jaxon]

Hi everyone,

As promised, here are the details for the Shape Shifter, the next character available for purchase.

Stats -

Strength: 2
Craft: 4
Lives: 4
Fate: 3
Gold: 1
Starting space: Tavern
Alignment: Evil

Abilities...

When you attack another character, you may choose to make the attack psychic combat. You may not do this when you are attacked by another character.

Whenever you defeat another character in battle or psychic combat, if you choose to take their life, you may shift into their shape and use all of their special abilities. If you do so, the other character's special abilities replace your own special abilities (except this one). If you lose a life in battle or psychic combat whilst in this form, you immediately revert back to your original shape. You may not do this when you are attacked by another character.

Whenever you fight a character or creature, you may morph into the shape of one of your trophies and use its Strength or Craft instead of your own. If you are defeated, you do not lose a life and the trophy is discarded instead.

You cannot be turned into a Toad; ignore any effect that would turn you into a Toad.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=350035756

Her most interesting ability is the Shape Shift, which allows her to copy another character's abilities and use them herself. Here it is in action...

The Shape Shifter decides that a bit of assassination would be a good thing, so she lands on the Assassin.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=350035948

She beats the Assassin in psychic combat, and to be able to Shift, she needs to take a life from the Assassin...
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=350036084

After the Assassin has lost his life, the Shape Shifter has a 'Shape Shift' option...
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=350036260

She shifts into the Assassin's shape, and chaos reigns as there are now TWO Assassins on the board!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=350036459

She now has the Assassin's abilities and will only lose them when she is beaten in combat and loses a life. Whilst in the Assassin shape, she can assassinate another character and choose to take their abilities if she wishes, without having to turn back to her original shape first.

I hope you've enjoyed this preview of the Shape Shifter. Many thanks to Marcin "Nemomonnemo" Chrostowski, Jon "TalismanIsland" New and Kamil Lewicki for their help with this character.

[CreakyCroaky]

This character looks like lots of fun! Though shape shifting will be interesting, I'm even more entranced by the ability to _not_ become a toad...

[Little Nemo]

Originally posted by xigxagga:

This character looks like lots of fun! Though shape shifting will be interesting, I'm even more entranced by the ability to _not_ become a toad...

Though remember that if You will shape shift into another character You will lose that ability to evade being toaded.

[Fulgur14]

The "You may not do this when you are attacked by another character." seems out of place in the second ability. Does it mean that you can only shift into another character when you attack, not when you're attacked? Seems more like a copy/paste artifact to me.

From the wordings, it seems that you don't have to actually take a character's life (you merely have to choose the option, but if the character saves his life, you can still change shape), but you actually have to lose the life to fall out of the transformation. And "losing a life in battle or psychic combat" covers not only the loss, but also situations like an unlucky use of Elixir of Might in battle, correct?

As for copying abilities, what happens if you copy Knight? Will it's "always good" ability be treated just like "no alignment changing" or will it actually override your normal alignment?

[Deaf Can Dance]

with powerful chars in game like Sage, Black Witch, Warlock or later Alchemist - shape shifter is supreme in adv tactics.

[jaxon]

Originally posted by Fulgur14:

As for copying abilities, what happens if you copy Knight? Will it's "always good" ability be treated just like "no alignment changing" or will it actually override your normal alignment?

You will become Good, and stay Good whilst in the Knight's shape. Other abilities which take effect at the start of a game, such as starting with X spells, won't have any effect for the Shape Shifter.

[ToothlessNightFury]

Originally posted by Fulgur14:

From the wordings, it seems that you don't have to actually take a character's life (you merely have to choose the option, but if the character saves his life, you can still change shape), but you actually have to lose the life to fall out of the transformation. And "losing a life in battle or psychic combat" covers not only the loss, but also situations like an unlucky use of Elixir of Might in battle, correct?

What about this?

[Fulgur14]

There might be some unexpected interactions between Shape Shifter and Woodland characters who use special tokens.

[Little Nemo]

Originally posted by Fulgur14:

There might be some unexpected interactions between Shape Shifter and Woodland characters who use special tokens.

Perhaps. Though the Shape Shifter doesn't have to take the shape of the losing character. It is her free will.

Though I imagine when the Woodland will be released Nomads will "fix" the Shape Shifter and will give her the tokens despite that she didn't start the game with them.

[jaxon]

Originally posted by Fulgur14:

From the wordings, it seems that you don't have to actually take a character's life (you merely have to choose the option, but if the character saves his life, you can still change shape), but you actually have to lose the life to fall out of the transformation. And "losing a life in battle or psychic combat" covers not only the loss, but also situations like an unlucky use of Elixir of Might in battle, correct?

You do have to take a life, that's a wording issue that I'll change. Yes, it must be in combat that you lose a life in order to revert back to the Shape Shifter's default abilities.

[Fulgur14]

Originally posted by jaxon:

Originally posted by Fulgur14:

From the wordings, it seems that you don't have to actually take a character's life (you merely have to choose the option, but if the character saves his life, you can still change shape), but you actually have to lose the life to fall out of the transformation. And "losing a life in battle or psychic combat" covers not only the loss, but also situations like an unlucky use of Elixir of Might in battle, correct?

You do have to take a life, that's a wording issue that I'll change. Yes, it must be in combat that you lose a life in order to revert back to the Shape Shifter's default abilities.

Then I'd suggest:
Whenever you defeat another character in battle or psychic combat and then cause him to lose a life, you may shift into their shape and use all of their special abilities.

What about the "You may not do this when you are attacked by another character." at the end of the second ability? Is that supposed to be there?

[Black Guy]

Pretty much what I was expecting with this new character, and it's awesome. The trophy ability is odd, but it has some limited applications like using low strength and craft cards to save a life.

I like it :D When does it come out?

[sanityismyvanity]

Originally posted by Fulgur14:

What about the "You may not do this when you are attacked by another character." at the end of the second ability? Is that supposed to be there?

That is the same as the Assassin/Martyr restriction on their abilities, so it's seems very reasonable that you must initiate the combat to use the ability. Otherwise, it would increase the risk factor too much for other characters to choose to attack the Shape Shifter if doing so could cause the Shifter to steal their abilities. I think treating it as Assassinate/Sacrifice Life is a good balancing measure for it.

I also like that there is a choice to be made, keep the Psychic Combat/Trophy Shifting/Immunity to Toading abilities, or trade them out for another characters abilities should you defeat them and take a life. This makes for an interesting tactical decision as each game develops.

As far as the debate concerning "Start the game with" abilities, it's similar to the debate regarding the Transformed card in Woodlands, since the effects are almost the same (except the Shifter does not take on the other characters Str/Craft/Fate/Life/Gold Values like Transformed does). I'm not really sure if the "Start the game with" abilities should be ignored or not concerning either of these. It's a very confusing issue to me, and I can see a case for either arguement being correct. I do think though that Tokens used with the Woodlands characters should be copied and used, and only things like start with an Armour and Sword, or start with X Spells should be ignored if that is how it is going to be interpreted.

[sanityismyvanity]

Originally posted by Black Guy:

Pretty much what I was expecting with this new character, and it's awesome. The trophy ability is odd, but it has some limited applications like using low strength and craft cards to save a life.

I like it :D When does it come out?

Remember though, you only lose the Trophy if you lose the combat. So, now you have a reason to just hang onto that Miser Dragon trophy you killed with a Finger of Death spell, and use it as a beat stick in Battle instead of trading it in for 1 Strength. Also, should you be faced with an Auto-lose situation, burn that dead Snow Goblin trophy as a meat shield to protect the loss of life. It's all about options and choosing when to trade in trophies.

[Fulgur14]

Originally posted by sanityismyvanity:

Originally posted by Fulgur14:

What about the "You may not do this when you are attacked by another character." at the end of the second ability? Is that supposed to be there?

That is the same as the Assassin/Martyr restriction on their abilities, so it's seems very reasonable that you must initiate the combat to use the ability. Otherwise, it would increase the risk factor too much for other characters to choose to attack the Shape Shifter if doing so could cause the Shifter to steal their abilities. I think treating it as Assassinate/Sacrifice Life is a good balancing measure for it.

Even if it's reasonable, it's a very odd wording. See the whole ability:

Whenever you defeat another character in battle or psychic combat, if you choose to take their life, you may shift into their shape and use all of their special abilities. If you do so, the other character's special abilities replace your own special abilities (except this one). If you lose a life in battle or psychic combat whilst in this form, you immediately revert back to your original shape. You may not do this when you are attacked by another character.

A better wording to be: Whenever you attack and defeat another character... This way, the ability specifies conditions for ending the effect, and only then it says "oh, and by the way, you must attack for all this to happen". Add the fact that the sentence "You may not do this when you are attacked by another character." is ONLY used in Talisman in conjunction with abilities that let you initiate psychic combat, and you can see why I suspect it's just a copy/paste artifact, as if developers copied the first ability to create a new paragraph, rewrote the text and forgot to delete this last sentence.

[sanityismyvanity]

Ah, I see what you are saying. It's an issue with how it is worded, not confusion as to why it exists in the first place. Gotcha, I misunderstood.