Order Of Encounter

[Xerxes Aragon]

In thisgame if we encounter multiple cards on a space - like if somebody dropped all of their objects and followers when turned into a toad or died - the game determines which order we can try to pick them up. In the board game it's our choice which order we pick up the cards and followers on a space. That's broken. If there's more items than I currently have space to add I'm going to want to grab any mules or horses and carts first thing, then pick up the rest of them. The board game rules show an example of this under section 12.

Why are we being forced by the game to pick up things in the order which it determines rather than an order that we determine? I've tried to shuffle around and select the item or follower that I want to pick up next but am not being allowed that. All followers, objects and magic objects are type 5 cards and should be able to be picked up in whatever order we choose.

[Pompeji]

Isn't it supposed to based on the encouter number?

[Excommunicatus]

What the OP means is that all the objects and followers have the same encounter number, but the game usually *makes* us 'encounter' them in the order of its choice, not ours.

And yeah, I've run into this often enough as well, where I'm unable to take several objects because the game wouldn't let me grab the horse and cart first, *then* grab the objects.

I agree this should be changed to behave the same way it does when a character is killed. When that happens, all their objects and followers show up together in the card picker, and you get the choice of what to select in which order. But this is not the way it currently works when you encounter all that stuff on a space.

[Artaterxes]

The game is using the purest interpretation of the rules: cards with the same encounter number must be resolved "in the order drawn."

The game literally keeps track of every draw. If you have to pick up a sword before a mule, it's because someone drew that sword off the deck before someone drew the mule, however many turns ago that happened.

Ironically, this does not occur in the board game because without a pen and paper it is impossible to track.

Sam Bailey says in the new FAQ he might address this issue. He currently plays by encountering cards in the order in which they appear on the space, and as for objects followers and gold, encounter them in any order. So the digital edition might have to make a few changes once the new FAQ comes out.

But for now, it is actually the true interpretation of rules.

[Excommunicatus]

Trouble is that the game sometimes offers those cards in different orders. I think generally you're right, that the game tries to do that currently, but sometimes things... move.

I've seen situations where there was a pile of cards on a space from a character death. One character landed on it, with the Hag and full inventory, so couldn't take anything, but I watched the order the cards popped up for them since I was curious if they'd let the AI grab mules and such first, since it never seems to let me. A couple of turns later, another character lands there and starts taking stuff - lo and behold, the order cards were offered was different.

You'll see this as well if you quit out and restart a game - though I'm not sure if that's a case of the game 'forgetting' about things like the order cards were drawn. It certainly forgets about items being hidden in the Concealed Pouch when you quit out and restart, and un-hides them.

[Xerxes Aragon]

Originally posted by Artaterxes:

The game is using the purest interpretation of the rules: cards with the same encounter number must be resolved "in the order drawn."

The game literally keeps track of every draw. If you have to pick up a sword before a mule, it's because someone drew that sword off the deck before someone drew the mule, however many turns ago that happened.

Ironically, this does not occur in the board game because without a pen and paper it is impossible to track.

Sam Bailey says in the new FAQ he might address this issue. He currently plays by encountering cards in the order in which they appear on the space, and as for objects followers and gold, encounter them in any order. So the digital edition might have to make a few changes once the new FAQ comes out.

But for now, it is actually the true interpretation of rules.

Having played the board game for the past 25 years plus or so this is why I find the "feature" of the digital game to be out of step - broken - with the board game on which it is based, hence my complaint. When we encounter a pile of "stuff" on a space there should be no "in the order drawn". Everything in that pile is encountered simultaneously, all card numbers being equal that is.

And for that matter, if there are multiple strangers and places on a space those should also be able to be encountered in whatever order the player chooses, like the board game, as long as the general card numbering system is followed. The Ruins, Oasis and Hidden Valley could all possibly have 2 or 3 strangers or places and we may not want to encounter each one in the order that various players drew them earlier in the game.

[Thels]

I actually have no problem with encountering cards in the same order as they were originally drawn, even if I'm not the one drawing them, like 2 strangers or 2 places on the ruins. Heck, we even houserule this, making sure the cards stay in order on the tiles. It's quite obvious that the rules in the physical version are written the way they are since it's easy to lose track of the original order.

However, when a character dies, he doesn't get to pick the order in which he places the items.

Also, the order seems to not be fixed in the order they were discarded. I once had a game against the AI where I played a courtesan and had a truckload of cards (2 horse and cards, 5 mules, a bunch of other followers, the entire purchase deck except for the raft, and a few other items). Thinking it would be interesting to sort my cards, I dropped them all down one by one, to then pick them up during the next turn. Lo and behold! During the next turn I drew them in a totally different order than before.

Refresh my mind. Are there any followers that require a specific alignment or could be "equipped" or not "equipped" based on the presense or absense of an item? If that's not the case, an easy fix would be to let players encounter all the followers first and all the objects after.

[Excommunicatus]

None of the followers are item dependent, and only the Homonculus has an alignment restriction (non-Good only). Even if the Druid Staff were a part of the pile being encountered, you wouldn't have a chance to use it before encountering a Homonculus, so that's a non-issue as well.

I still think that if a great pile of stuff in encountered, it should be treated in the same way as when a character is killed; just bring it all up in the card picker at once. I understand where draw order can make a difference in timing for encountering Places or Strangers (since sometimes it does have a real effect), but really - picking up a pile of stuff isn't drawing from the deck or dealing with a proper encounter in my mind. Any Enemy, Place or Strangers also on the space have to be dealt with in their encounter order before the stuff can be taken anyway, and isn't that really the point of encounter order - to make you deal with the guardians first before taking away the goodies?

What makes no sense to me is having any restriction on the order of objects or followers. If one found a bunch of stuff lying on the side of the road, and a few mules happily chomping grass nearby, why on earth should you be forced to leave some of the items and come back later hoping to still find them there when you could just load it all up on the mules and be on your way?

[Xerxes Aragon]

Encountering cards with the same type number (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) in the order drawn should ONLY be an issue on THE TURN they are drawn IMO. On any subsequent runs that a character lands on that space and has to deal with them he/she should be free to encounter cards with the same number in whatever order they choose. It makes NO SENSE, to me, to have to go through the Magic Portal before I have the chance to visit the Shrine. I want to visit the Shrine then step through the Portal. Same with Strangers. Let me get a spell from the Sorceror before the Imp teleports me away.

[Thels]

The Imp is an Event, not a Stranger, so it doesn't work there. Also, the chance that an Imp is not encountered and discarded during the turn in which it's drawn is really small. I guess if it's drawn in combination with an Angel or Devil that kills the player encountering it.

If you want to keep rules official, then yes, players should be allowed to choose the order in which they encounter strangers and places. As I said, I personally don't mind if they always remain in the order they were drawn in.

For objects and followers this could be a bit messy, as there could be a lot of them. Is there any disadvantage to letting players encounter the followers one by one and then the objects one by one?

On that note, Ghosts are rolled for the moment they are encountered for the first time, rather than when they're first drawn. Is this intended? It can be a bit odd, as they still take up a card slot on the ruins/oasis/valley.

[Xerxes Aragon]

Originally posted by Thels:

The Imp is an Event, not a Stranger, so it doesn't work there.

Bad analogy on my part. I couldn't remember exactly what type of card the Imp was, but I think you get my drift.

[Mr. Neutron]

I came here to post the exact same complaint about the order of picking-up objects. I really hope they change it to allow choosing what order items are picked up. Totally agree that the encounter number should only matter when the cards are drawn from the deck.

[Thels]

No, the encounter number matters always. The order in which the cards were originally drawn only matters during the turn in which they were drawn.

[Artaterxes]

Originally posted by Thels:

No, the encounter number matters always. The order in which the cards were originally drawn only matters during the turn in which they were drawn.

Are you referring to what the DE does? Because DE takes draw-order into account for every turn.

Or are you referring to what should be done? Because the actual board game rules don't tell you how to resolve this problem; anything we do is a house rule, technically.

Really, there is no right answer until the new FAQ comes out.

[Thels]

I was referring to Giant Demon Bat, who said the encounter number should only matter when the cards are drawn from the deck.

The encounter numbers always matter. Regardless of you drawing the cards yourself, you visiting cards that were drawn by another player, or a mixture of both. You always encounter the cards in this order:

1) Events, nasty followers and Strength/Craft enemies.
2) Strength enemies.
3) Craft enemies.
4) Strangers.
5) Items, other followers and bags of gold.
6) Places.

It's the order in which you meet multiple cards of the same number that can get confusing. In the boardgame, if you were the one to draw them, you encounter those in the order you drew them. If you were not the one to draw them, you may choose the order in which you encounter them. This is most likely because it's hard to keep track of the order in which they were drawn.

If the DE version wants to remain completely true to the game, they should allow players to choose the order in which they encounter cards with the same number. This could lead to a LOT of clicking, and I personally wouldn't mind if they locked the order, so cards are always encountered in the order they were drawn (or perhaps arrived on that space in case of wandering cards) for everything except 5.

5 includes not only cards that were drawn, but also followers and items abandoned by other players, or left behind when players died. These items are then sorted in a totally random order. Having players encounter followers first and items after should solve the issue that players can't pick up items while the mules are standing there, waited to be collected.

[Artaterxes]

Originally posted by Thels:

In the boardgame...If you were not the one to draw them, you may choose the order in which you encounter them. This is most likely because it's hard to keep track of the order in which they were drawn.

I do agree that this is the ideal way to play, and it is certainly how I play it... but unfortunately all our solutions are house rules, because that specific issue hasn't been addressed in any of the rulebooks or FAQ. This may be why Nomad hasn't changed it yet. (Apart from the advantage of forcing a player to click quickly rather than slow the game down.)

A similar situation exists regarding enemies with both a Strength and Craft stat. The creative content developer of the board game has repeatedly said (via email, forum posts, etc.) that he wants us to trade such enemies (e.g. Cerberus) for either stat, regardless of what was used to fight it. However, until it comes out in the new FAQ, Nomad doesn't have to adhere to it.

I anticipate if either the encounter order or trophy issue (or numerous other concerns) are addressed in the new FAQ, Nomad may have to go back and make some changes.

But like I said... yes I certainly play it so you can take things of number "5" encounter in any order. I definitely don't use a pen and paper in the game to keep track of draw order!