How can we make Preservation work?

[Artaterxes]

Hey, so I've been having the following problems with Preservation.
1. Can't use it during a fight, because if I queue it, it'll automatically preserve the loser. Well, I can't tell who the loser will be until the last die is rolled, but then the fight immediately ends and Preservation is activated - and often on a target I don't want to preserve.
2. Can't use it on an effect that targets multiple characters (e.g. Pestilence) because I don't think a queued Preservation can tell who I want to preserve in that case.
3. Can't use it on an opponent's turn because they click too fast through their encounters for me to queue up my Preservation.

Ideally each loss of life would have a timer like Counterspell where you can cast Preservation but logically, that's silly. How else can we make this spell work? Or am I missing something?

[shenanigans]

Simple: add a "Cancel" UI action option to just not cast the spell.

This would mean that when say Pestulance is thrown down, and if you have Preservation queued, you'd get a prompt on each loss of life asking to either execute the spell or cancel.

Frankly, there needs to be a "Cancel" option when ever you cast a spell to avoid accidentally queuing or casting a spell card that you didn't mean to anyway. In real-life, you'd just throw down a card to play it. But in a PC game, a simple mis-click of the mouse button or spacebar tap will execute the action when you never intended it.

Edit: well not so simple now that I think about it. This would require adding a 5 second timer whenever a battle is played out or a loss of life occured so that anyone can play such a card. I'm pretty sure devs didn't add a death timer after every single kill to avoid dragging on the game. Say if you were on CoC, this death timer would be painful.

[Excommunicatus]

Brainstorming:

For the Pestilence case, a queued Preservation might bring up a character selector to choose the recipient of the Preservation, just like a character selector pops up for Random or Nullify. But then, depending on your AI speed setting (if an AI draws the Pestilence), the window for using Preservation might be too short to react.

Perhaps if Preservation has been queued, and before the outcome of any combat is resolved, a confirmation box could pop up.

"(Player Name) lost the battle - continue with Preservation?" (Yes / No). Downside - it telegraphs that *someone* had a Preservation queued when that wait time occurs.

Alternately, a 3-5 second delay could be added after combats, but before resolution to allow a short time for Preservation casts. Downside - slows down gameplay with every last battle, on the off-chance someone *might* want to cast one spell in the game. If it's even been drawn.

Neither solution seems perfect to me. Preservation right now is tricky to use for some, impossible for others (probably depends on AI speed settings) - so would one of the above options, warts and all, be preferable to a game spell simply not being user-friendly when all should be? Is there an even better option? Up for discussion.

[Artaterxes]

Yeah that's what I mean. Preservation needs a timer but it's just silly. The game flows so smoothly as is, I'd hate to muck about just for one spell. It's gotta be done within the context of Preservation itself. Something unique to that spell that makes it work.

EDIT: Adding a cancel spell option is tricky because it shows everyone that you have a spell. Even if nothing shows up on other people's screens, the delay would give something away.

[Packrat]

Perheps change the queueing system to make it conditional? You would queue up the spell and target, and the spell only goes off if it would be cast on that target. There should be sufficient time before and after combat to queue and, if necessary, cancel the spell to not interrupt the overall flow of the game.

[Artaterxes]

OK some more brainstorming...

Multiple Life Losses
If someone has Preservation queued, a simple target selection would work well. Excommunicatus, this is basically your suggestion - and I think the AI speed is something we'll just have to live with. The game would have to individually identify which effects do this, but so far I think only Pestilence and the Command Spell cause multiple characters to lose life.

Followers Killed
If a follower is killed, a timer like the Counterspell timer can appear after each follower is killed. Shouldn't be too obtrusive, as so far the only effects that kill followers are the Chasm and the Leper, I think. (Other effects don't kill followers, they're just discarded.)

Fighting
During anyone's fight, above each combatant is a glowing preservation spell (rather than being in the lower box). Just queue the one you want to preserve.

[CreakyCroaky]

Originally posted by Packrat:

Perheps change the queueing system to make it conditional? You would queue up the spell and target, and the spell only goes off if it would be cast on that target. There should be sufficient time before and after combat to queue and, if necessary, cancel the spell to not interrupt the overall flow of the game.

I'd love to see something like this for all kinds of spells - pick your spell AND your target, and the spell is now "queued" to go off only on that target. I think it would make the spellcasting/queuing system much more workable -- though I suspect it'd be a big change now that the game's released...

Originally posted by Artaterxes:

EDIT: Adding a cancel spell option is tricky because it shows everyone that you have a spell. Even if nothing shows up on other people's screens, the delay would give something away.

I think showing everyone that you have a spell you could cast is a valid "price" to pay for cancelling your spell. In fact, I think showing everyone the actual spell you tried to cast is a valid price to pay to be able to cancel it. It's like throwing your spell card down on the table, then changing your mind (or realising you've cast it wrongly) - everyone's seen your spell (because you made a mistake) but at least you still have it and - more importnantly - you're not forced to accidentally cast it on yourself! (That's the mistake I mostly make in the digital version...)

[shenanigans]

Originally posted by xigxagga:

more importnantly - you're not forced to accidentally cast it on yourself!

I always love queuing up a spell like "Shatter" only to have it automatically cast on myself. This is why I suggested a "cancel" option.

The "queue" is a concept made by game devs probably to help out with the fast-paced gameplay, or at least make it faster so players aren't kept waiting for others. In the boardgame, you don't have a "queue" spot on the board where you place a potentialy playable card where everyone can see. You keep your thumb on a card you want to keep ready to play at just the right time. I don't agree that revealing your cards under any circumstances (save some rule or ability) is justifiable.

Instead, I think the "queue" concept should be redesigned entirely. Treat it like raising your hand in-game or calling out "Wait!". If you have a playable card queued up, then the game should give you 10 seconds to throw it down or else you're ignored and your card isn't played. If you have no card queued that works in the given situation, then you're ignored.

[Packrat]

Originally posted by who cares:

Instead, I think the "queue" concept should be redesigned entirely. Treat it like raising your hand in-game or calling out "Wait!". If you have a playable card queued up, then the game should give you 10 seconds to throw it down or else you're ignored and your card isn't played. If you have no card queued that works in the given situation, then you're ignored.

This has the immense potential for griefing in multiplayer games.

[Bif]

Talk about a ♥♥♥♥ spell. Queued it up, fought and beat a monster, bloody spell triggered and SAVED THE MONSTER. Why the holy eff would I ever want to do this???

[[FOAD]Iron]

Originally posted by Bif:

Talk about a ♥♥♥♥ spell. Queued it up, fought and beat a monster, bloody spell triggered and SAVED THE MONSTER. Why the holy eff would I ever want to do this???

Jesus Christ! That sounds pathetic.

[Bif]

Originally posted by FOADIron:

Originally posted by Bif:

Talk about a ♥♥♥♥ spell. Queued it up, fought and beat a monster, bloody spell triggered and SAVED THE MONSTER. Why the holy eff would I ever want to do this???

Jesus Christ! That sounds pathetic.

abjectly so