Grumpy wizard spell casting

[enickerson9]

The Grumpy Wizard has cast some cards that I feel don't follow his rules as written, but just now takes the cake. One or two spells that (loosely) he could have cast, then Craft is drawn, and it shows the next player casting it on the Thief. Craft states explicitly that it is cast on yourself and the Wizard states that it must be a spell you can cast on another character.

[s54113]

Wrong. There's no "another" in Grumpy Wizard's description, and there's "ignoring any restrictions" in it.

[enickerson9]

OK, then he should have 'cast' the Preservation spell that was passed over.

[s54113]

At the time, Preservation would have no effect. Healing cannot be cast on a character at max health, Transmute don't work if you don't have non-magical weapons/armor, Shatter can't do anything if you don't have items and so on.

[Shrub]

Grimpy wizard is more for casting a spell that can effect you at the time he draws it. But causing the nxt player to cast it on you.
So if a card is drawn like Preservation that can't be cast because because no one is losing a life. When you have that spell you can't cast it if no ones losing a life...
Finger of death drawn by grumpy wizard will make you lose 2 lives as it is the nxt player who casts the spell. So not all cards drawn can be cast right away so it continues to draw spells until there is one that can affect you. Whether it be a good spell or bad...

[enickerson9]

Those are restrictions, and the Wizard states that ,alas, he has none.

[enickerson9]

Like anything else in Talisman you can expect a good result, a bad result, or, very very often, no result at all. No where does it state that the Spell must DO anything, only that it can be cast on a character. So the Preservation, Teleport and some others I saw, were fair game.

[Simon]

I think you're questioning a fundamental interpretation of the game rather than the Grumpy Wizard per se.

The game simply doesn't let you cast spells when they have no effect. Doing so would let spellcasters ditch unwanted spells too easily and they're already at an advantage. So the rules are appropriate in my opinion.

[enickerson9]

I can see your point, but there are also lots of times you can waste a spell, whether or not they have a valid target, or can cause an effect is very subjective.

[enickerson9]

In the case of Preservation it CAN be cast on a character, to no effect, and Teleport can be, and the only restriction on it is the phase of your turn it can be used, so it should have been cast.

I have no objection to Craft being cast by the GW, but with it's "beginning of your turn", "self only" text and being treated as cast by the player on your left, it seems to have the exact same restrictions as teleport, which wasn't allowed and Craft was.

[enickerson9]

So if I take your meaning, the game won't let the wizard cast any spell that you or another character couldn't play even with the restrictions followed (mainly due to no valid target), but Teleport is only restricted by 'before you move' and 'on yourself'. It should be an acceptable spell for the GW to cast.

[Simon]

I think maybe the distinction is "can have no effect" not "will have no effect". The former seems to be ok but not the latter.

[enickerson9]

Maybe the Teleport is coded in some way that it is a 'move replacement' and therefor CANNOT be used outside of move phase ? Because in a RL game it's a no brainer. No casting restriction, you get Teleported. But in a mechanical system it may be implemented to be a movement choice, and without a movement, can't work.

[Esplin]

The Talisman FAQ has this to say:

"Spell Targets : Characters cannot cast Spells unless the Spells have a valid target. Characters may not discard Spells just to get rid of them.

Example: A character has the Mesmerism Spell which allows him to take a Follower from another character. If none of his opponents have any Followers, he cannot cast Mesmerism
just to get rid of the Spell because there are no valid targets available."

Hope it helps.

[enickerson9]

Yeah, the thing is that the GW isn't specific about the scope of 'no restrictions'. Apparently the basic spellcasting restrictions are still in play, and card specific ones are not. BUT the Teleport had a valid target, unless not having a move available somehow prevents this, which must be something in the mechanics of the code.

[enickerson9]

Or perhaps it's because you, and not the caster, would choose where to teleport to.