The Harbinger Expansion

[Gallifrey - CSSC Gaming Founder]

I usually get every expansion as they come on sale - I've played a ton of Talisman and got nearly everything.

However - Harbinger - five reviews - all negative.

Should I skip this one ? I mean I liked Dragon expansion over all but there was some (really) good stuff in the packs as well as a lot of really powerful dragons (and other nasties).

Is Harbinger just a downer ?

S.x.

[UncleJohn65]

It is all a matter of personal taste and preference.... that said Dragons is probably my favorite expansions so far, and Harbinger my LEAST favorite - I really just don't like it, seems to devolve the game into "try and survive 1st 12 turns" ... again though this is just my opinion, others do like it. Best way to know though is play a few online games with it and see for yourself :)

[cheshirecatgirl]

We all have our favorites, I wouldn't say Harbinger is a bad expansion.
It can be brutal and deadly, but it also has some interesting mechanics.
I like the Omen feature and the fact that you have to win a game before the last Omen is discarded, or else all players die/lose.

I do think though that Harbinger and Dragons or Firelands together makes for a potentially very deadly game!

But who says you have to use all expansions?

Personally I think skipping the Harbinger would be a shame!

My least favorite expansion is Firelands btw.

FYI if you create an Asmodee account then you can try out expansions.
They rotate the expansions and there is a free one each week, so that would be a way to try it out.

Or.....buy it in the Lunar Sale as it has a 51% discount atm.

[Driss]

I love the Harbinger expansion, it's one of my favorites. It includes several different versions so it really adds a lot of variety. The main problem with it is the AI do not try to avoid drawing adventure cards while in the Harbinger's region. They really need to fix that.

[Maelstrom]

When you are hopelessly losing and permadeath is disabled, it can be quite tedious knowing it is unlikely you can ever catch up.

I see the harbinger expansion as a way for players in these situations to cause the game to end without needing to win. If you think about it, these players can seek out the harbinger and pray at all the altars to advance the omens rather than attempt to take the lead. Players with a certain magic object from the harbinger deck could even win despite how far behind they are!

I think it gives unfortunate players a purpose.

If you do want to win the game normally, I agree that it can make it very difficult so in that regard it does transform the game into something else.

[majkel2111]

The key to the success in this expansion is to avoid drawing Harbinger cards at any cost. Change realms often, land on the Harbinger, visit shops in the City. If one can understand that and teach other players to see that too, you are golden.

[Gallifrey - CSSC Gaming Founder]

Originally posted by cheshirecatgirl:

We all have our favorites, I wouldn't say Harbinger is a bad expansion.
It can be brutal and deadly, but it also has some interesting mechanics.
I like the Omen feature and the fact that you have to win a game before the last Omen is discarded, or else all players die/lose.

I do think though that Harbinger and Dragons or Firelands together makes for a potentially very deadly game!

But who says you have to use all expansions?

Personally I think skipping the Harbinger would be a shame!

My least favorite expansion is Firelands btw.

FYI if you create an Asmodee account then you can try out expansions.
They rotate the expansions and there is a free one each week, so that would be a way to try it out.

Or.....buy it in the Lunar Sale as it has a 51% discount atm.

Yeah, I don't love Firelands. The "take a life" unless you have a rare magic item is particularly irritating and I tended to head out to the Highlands far quicker once that expansion was activated. That said now I have the Dragon expansion the effect of Firelands seems far more diluted. There were also some fun firelands cards - like the Caves of Wonder that were just "Draw 3" no matter how many other cards are on the space already and the market where you get to buy which of the next five cards you want.

Firelands, Dragon, and now Harbinger shake the game up. I'd got into a settled routine against the AI - hang around the outer region until I've picked up a few stat boosts and some extra carrying capacity, then to the stetch of the Highlands around the fate and life restoring waterfall until my stats were high enough to beat the Eagle King, trade in all the gems at the City, head into the City and buy a Flail and a Spellbook, then into the Dungeon to beat the LoD by at least 8.

Firelands, Dragon, and people say Harbinger too make such tight planning impossible because squares just get taken out. You definitely need back up plans.

S.x.

[Liquid ID]

Harbinger is fantastic... thematically. The mechanics and the cards are pretty interesting.
The problem with Harbinger, like most expansions honestly, is balance. The mechanics, as written in the rules, suck. The official rules create an incredibly difficult game that can be impossible to drag yourself out of.
Drawing from the Harbinger deck is a bad deal early on. If the Harbinger is in your region, you will unleash chaos. The problem is that the Harbinger stick around too long.

I don't think the Harbinger should appear until the 3rd or 4th omen drops. Then things get nasty. But at least there is a chance for early game to build to midgame.
Or... once a character lands on and encounters the Harbinger, it should return to it's card off the board.
Or... the Harbinger should have a chance to appear on Event, and not on every Event.
Regardless of the mechanism, the Harbinger needs to be around less earlier on.

However, if you choose to use Runestones, you can skip some of the early game bog and kickstart a game to be more competitive with Harbinger's harsh start.

Harbinger has awesome card art, great theme, interesting omens, decent endings, OK chaarcters, and generally every part of it other than the proliferation of early dificulty is solid. BUt if you try to play raw, especially without expansion boards, it's just a big, salty, frustrating experience.

[Driss]

The Harbinger expansion only seems extremely difficult because the AI do not know how to avoid drawing Harbinger cards which can affect everybody.

[jamielatkinson]

Originally posted by Meretrix:

The Harbinger expansion only seems extremely difficult because the AI do not know how to avoid drawing Harbinger cards which can affect everybody.

In my experience with the AI I've found that if it gets the opportunity; on a particular turn; to escape the region the Harbinger is in, it always takes it, however it is less good at thinking ahead and beelining an escape route if it finds itself with the Harbinger where it cannot immediately escape the region.

[Lombardic De Valter]

I love it. Great atmosphere

[HavokVonFaust]

I particularly dislike this expansion. Why the Hell should a player be punished (very severely, in some cases) for succeding in a challenge? Why should every character suffer the failings of another? It's not a cooperative game, for crying out loud.

If you play with AI, and specially if you like playing with Cataclysm and Woodlands, stay the hell away from this expansion.

I haven't tested with human players yet, but based on what I've seen so far I doubt I'll even try.

(Edit) I decided to give it another opportunity, but I think the situation I've just experienced is a great example of the MAJOR flaw of this expansion: I had 3 spells and 5 fate and C:6 (Prophetess with a couple of encounters with fountains); I faced a Crypt Horror (C: 5). Because I won, I lost ALL of my fate AND spells. That kind of BS is what you're in for with this expansion.

[David]

Its all a matter of personal opinion as you can see from the opinions posted , but put in its simplest terms, Harbinger makes it a different game overall - a game of survival IE being the last character still alive at the end - in all the other expansions it is a game of getting to the crown of command with whatever your chosen ending is, and really winning the game but with Harbinger that is impossible - even if you play with real players as opposed to the AI - I must admit I don't enjoy it much

[arneb_nihal]

On the contrary, I think Harbinger brings many interesting aspects to the game, most importantly the fact that simply getting stronger is not gonna solve all your problems.

One of the things I don’t like about Dragons (to make an example concerning one of those expansions considered “hard”) is that, while in the beginning is quite demanding, as soon as a few dragon scales are gathered encounters with dragon enemies become almost trivial. This brings a huge flow of strength/craft increases (by exchanging trophies), which in turn brings more scales, and so on.

On the contrary, Harbinger requires much more strategy to be handled: having a way to quickly escape a region is a must; bringing down Harbinger enemies is rarely the best solution; and players are almost forced to unwillingly cooperate to delay the prophecy completion (at least, until someone decide to throw caution away and start using altars!).
On top of that, the feeling of impending danger given when the game is on the fifth/sixth omen is hardly achieved by anything else in this game IMO.

I have to agree that, as many others said before me, it’s a matter of personal opinion.

[Palumtra]

Harbringer makes the game harder. Is it good? Well, as others mentioned , it makes so that simply getting stronger will not be enough to win.
The thing I dont like about it is that it adds a lot of powerful enemies to the adventure decks, pulling out 9 str/cr creatures on the 2nd round is not fun, among woth certin cursed items and events.

On the other hand it requires cooperation from others to avoid the impending doom and players have to be more alert in general. So it depends on you and on the others as well....so if you play with randoms....well.....things can get out of hand fast. WIth friends it's definitely worth to have/use it.