Questions about AI behavior

[Jhonny G]

Hey all.. Recently started playing again and while all the new expansions made for a slightly confusing start I got most of the new rules nailed down now. I do however have a few questions about the AI's behavior that I find a little odd. Like with..

Dark Fate - Even when I'm out of fate and get a "bad" roll, one the AI's will often waste a dark fate point to re-roll my die, which in turn ends up helping me instead. Like in this example from my current game;
- Warlock (me): Rolls '4' on the Werewolf chart (bad)
- AI: Dark fate reroll to '2' (good)
- Warlock: Rolls '3' on Werewolf chart (very bad)
- AI: Dark fate reroll to '6' (very good)
... then a few turns later ...
- Warlock: Rolls '2' on the Mystic chart (meh)
- AI: Dark fate reroll to '6' (good)
There have been few more similar cases like that, which honestly puzzles me a bit. Are they actually trying to help me or is it some sort of glitch where the just AI fails to properly identify the outcome of a die roll?

Warlock's Cave - So far two of the AI characters have completed a Warlock's Quest, but neither of them has taken a Talisman as reward yet. They simply took one of those quest reward cards and ran away to fight something. Seems like a waste of their time, so why do that?
Also, the AI Barbarian did something very stupid and weird with his 'The Magic Door' reward. On the next turn he used it to teleport to the square next to Earie the Eagle King, which had a Cloud Dragon AND Rock Mauler on it!! It was a instant lose that cost him a life and makes no sense what so ever.. So again, why?

Woodlands Expansions - Is there a logical explanation as to why 4 out of 5 AI characters rush to the Woodlands at the beginning of each game? Not that I mind having the rest of board mostly to myself, but it doesn't really seem as a smart move on their part as half of them ends up dead or spend the first 10 rounds as a toad..

[☼Desendos☼]

Dark fate usage: Likely a bug.

Taking a talisman: The value of a talisman is directly related to how close it is to having the stats to be able to make a go at winning. The quest reward is better most of the time.

Magic door: This also sounds like a bug.

Woodlands: The AI knows it will get a path card entering the woodlands. This can provide an immediate stat increase or strong ability which it tends to favour among other moves.

[Jhonny G]

Thanks for the quick answear, Desendos.

Is it worth taking the time to fill out the bug report form for strange AI behavior like this or wouldn't it be any help at all?

Also a little sidenote.. I read the manual and reset the tutorial hints in the game, but both seem to lack certain details about the trigger mechanisms for the Harbinger and Omens. Would it be possible to flesh out that part a bit?
(I'm still not sure on what makes omens of a specific prophecies advance or retract for example)

[☼Desendos☼]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dogmatius:

Thanks for the quick answear, Desendos.

Is it worth taking the time to fill out the bug report form for strange AI behavior like this or wouldn't it be any help at all?

Also a little sidenote.. I read the manual and reset the tutorial hints in the game, but both seem to lack certain details about the trigger mechanisms for the Harbinger and Omens. Would it be possible to flesh out that part a bit?
(I'm still not sure on what makes omens of a specific prophecies advance or retract for example)

Always worth doing. While making the AI as good as a human is difficult we keep striving to improve it from making bad moves.

With omens they have been interpreted to have 2 main effects. One which happens when the omen becomes the current omen and an ongoing effect. Though not all omens have both of these each omen will at least have 1.

Omens can advance or retract when cards in the expansion instruct you to do so or when the harbinger NPC instructs you to do so.

Check out this part of our online manual for the details on the harbinger mechanics.
https://www.nomadgames.co.uk/talisman-digital-edition-manual-uk/#harbingerfig

[Jhonny G]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Desendos:

While making the AI as good as a human is difficult we keep striving to improve it from making bad moves.

Having the AI throw a hissy fit after a bad streak and go suicidal is almost too human. That's the kind of reaction one would expect in a multiplayer match xD

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Desendos:

Omens can advance or retract when cards in the expansion instruct you to do so or when the harbinger NPC instructs you to do so.

Check out this part of our online manual for the details on the harbinger mechanics.
https://www.nomadgames.co.uk/talisman-digital-edition-manual-uk/#harbingerfig

Seriously though, I just read the entire manual again and no-where does it mention that omens is explicitly affected by Harbinger cards and the NPC himself. It is simply referred to as "an effect", which is a little too vague in my opinion as "an effect" could pretty much be anything.

Anyway, thanks for clearing that up. You're the boss ;)

Edit: Slight rephrasing to prevent misunderstandings

[My name is kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii]

Favoring the Woodlands in early game if they're close to it is a good idea, and I'm glad they do that as it makes the AI more difficult.

I've noticed lately that sometimes they seem to overrate the right side of the Deep Realms in early game though. The rewards are great, certainly, but getting through it with starting stats is not very easy or likely. I've seen all five AI opponents kill themselves on it and rush back to do it again. But it doesn't seem to happen in every game ...

[Lamalas]

Today I played a basic game standard ending against 3 AI's (no respawns). After I died due to a stupid mistake, I fast- forwarded to the end. To my suprise the AI's never went for the crown of command. One of the AI's even got over 100 strength and still didn't go for the crown, see screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/GRwKXvg

[New Moon On Monday]

I find that when a bunch of AI players go for the Woodlands at once at the beginning of the game, the Woodlands quickly turn into a minefield that no one can navigate. I don't know how many Paths are actually worth the risks early in the game, unless the character has a special ability to exploit the Woodlands. There are only a few characters I would take to the Woodlands at the beginning of the game; otherwise, I'm happy to let the AI players engage in that early toad-fest.

[Jhonny G]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von gorelando:

I've noticed lately that sometimes they seem to overrate the right side of the Deep Realms in early game though. The rewards are great, certainly, but getting through it with starting stats is not very easy or likely. I've seen all five AI opponents kill themselves on it and rush back to do it again. But it doesn't seem to happen in every game ...

That sounds a bit strange.. So far I haven't seen a single AI try to enter that area. In a matter of fact they seem to avoid it like the plague, even when they're more than powerful enough to complete the journey.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von New Moon On Monday:

I find that when a bunch of AI players go for the Woodlands at once at the beginning of the game, the Woodlands quickly turn into a minefield that no one can navigate. I don't know how many Paths are actually worth the risks early in the game, unless the character has a special ability to exploit the Woodlands. There are only a few characters I would take to the Woodlands at the beginning of the game; otherwise, I'm happy to let the AI players engage in that early toad-fest.

This is pretty much my experience as well. Even though I would proberly change the word 'minefield' with the less diplomatic term 'clusterf**k'. There are some crazy AOE cards in the Woodlands that can have devestating impact in the beginning, and that's without considering the battle royal gank fest on wounded characters ^^ But as you said, it can be quite enjoyable to just stand back and watch.

[New Moon On Monday]

I just started a game with 5 AI player, and the City, Highland, Dungeon, and Woodland Expansions. 4 of the AI players immediately went into the Dungeon and made their way to the Throne Room.

Two of the treasures in the Throne Room were the Orb of Prophesy and Clockwork Owl, which are among the best objects in the game. It's a positive that the AI prioritizes getting those objects, if that is what was going on. However, unless very lucky on the card draw, characters just aren't powerful enough to survive through to the Throne Room at the beginning of the game.

Indeed, by turn 15, 3 of the 4 AIs who went after the Throne Room had already been killed and respawned. The other gave up and made an escape.

(Edit: After I posted this and returned back to the game, the other AI went right back to the Catacombs. A Pirate with Strength 5, Craft 2, 3 Health and no Fate, a Crystal of Power and Armour, and high hopes.)

While generally I think it's a good strategy to pursue high reward at high risk early in the game, the AI's opening moves can be more foolhardy than risky.

[Jhonny G]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von New Moon On Monday:

While generally I think it's a good strategy to pursue high reward at high risk early in the game, the AI's opening moves can be more foolhardy than risky.

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Their starting moves often seem more foolish than anything else, like in the scenario you're describing. Taking the Dungeon head-on is/was possible with certain characters, but it still required a certain amount of luck and farming before you could head too deep into it. Otherwise you would just end up trapped with not enough lives left to get out.

Just had a similar experience where 3 AI's rushed through the Dungeon and into the Deep Realms right from the start. Needless to say it didn't end well for either of them.. Weirdest thing is none of them wanted to pick up any objects on the way. They simply choose not to pick up awesome stuff like Psychic Crystal, Pharaoh's Crown and Spell Ring, which makes no sense to me what so ever. If they're going on a borderline suicidal run, then they should at least grab everything they can on the way.

[Jhonny G]

Yup, something is definitely wrong with my current game.. The AI doesn't pick up any objects, magic objects or trinkets at all. Also, for some reason I never have to roll on the Harbinger chart when I encounter him.

Bug reported.

[vidal22]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dogmatius:

Yup, something is definitely wrong with my current game.. The AI doesn't pick up any objects, magic objects or trinkets at all. Also, for some reason I never have to roll on the Harbinger chart when I encounter him.

Bug reported.

Are you playing as the scout-there is a known issue with the ai if you play the scout-they don't pick up items

[Jhonny G]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von vidal22:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dogmatius:

Yup, something is definitely wrong with my current game.. The AI doesn't pick up any objects, magic objects or trinkets at all. Also, for some reason I never have to roll on the Harbinger chart when I encounter him.

Bug reported.

Are you playing as the scout-there is a known issue with the ai if you play the scout-they don't pick up items

In a matter of fact, yes, I were actually given the Scout to begin with in two different games in a row. Was starting to believe my entire game had somehow become corrupted, so I'm glad I read your comment before reinstalling the whole thing.

Thank you for sharing this valuable piece of information =)