Demo looks great but some moves are impossible

[Numenorean]

Not sure who is this game aimed at, but I play other fighting games and some moves are really too much efforts. I hope they will have some sort of controls customization like other games do these days, as this game does not use the standard control method to do combos and super moves.

It looks great when you can chain some combos but for anything more complex it really get too much down to the timing and this is not ideal for people that really don't want to become proficient and just want to enjoy the game as occasional players.
Not talking to dumb down everything, but making a game accessible to everyone and hard to master is different from making it appeal only to dedicated fighter games fans... You can hit the middle ground with few options and everyone get to have fun as the game really looks and play great.

Looking forward to the full release

[Numenorean]

Postat inițial de Vidar:

Errr, I wouldn't dumb the game down any further, it's already quite flat with the minimal number of command already. Why do you say it doesn't follow standard control? It literally uses qcf qcb, and these are the basic stuff.

Auto combo is already in the game, you just need to hit either A or B and hold them and input either A or B again, did you do the basic tutorial? The auto combo literally do the special, EX special and super when ever it's available, you just need to hit confirm it.

I'm sorry but are you expecting this to be Ninja Storm level of input since you said that you would prefer one button combos. Seriously, either you enjoy FG and learn the game or you're in the wrong genre, because complaining about putting effort to become better is just nonsense.

I would not dumb it down, but I would make it like Guilty Gear or DBFZ with a one button mode, so you can use at least those characters with moves set that are not that simple to master. I will make a pass to other characters, as I just tried few, if you say that the controls for the others are pretty standard.
I went through the basic tutorial and got stuck at the "special tutorial" basically, which is why I was surprised. I then tried the mazinger tutorials and got some of them done but not all of them.

Don't want to make it like the DIMPS games for sure, but would be nice to give an option at least; I am not planning to put efforts in something I play few times... And I am not so sure why people get so scared to put simplified controls in fighting games when they can just use the regular controls and have their 7 hours a day of "fun" learning combos, without being bothered by what other people do :)

[Numenorean]

Postat inițial de Spicy Crab:

Postat inițial de SuprK03:

???? Their whole post is about how they wish they could engage with the game more easily. This is such a stereotypically elitist take. Most of my personality is just liking fighting games, and if someone wants to engage with them I'd welcome them instead of saying that it doesn't matter if they want to play it unless they're willing to dedicate their life.

If you check my account you will see that I play far more than just fighting games. The whole "dedicate their life" bs is such an ingenuine argument. A person that wants to engage with fighting games will be ready will put the effort to learn the game, autocombos or no. Same goes with any genre. The solution is not dumbing them down.

I disagree, and I will tell you why.

The notion that you have to "get gud" is a retrograde mentality that is mainly perpetrated by some groups to justify the fact that they want to keep specific areas of a hobby exclusive. It happens with "souls-like" games, it happens with racing games, it happens with fighting games all the way to MMOs.

A game that require you to spend hours to get good without being accessible is actually a failure; and it is mainly a prehistoric dinosaur left behind from ancient times of game development. Modern game design is able to make games where a player can tailor the experience to the smallest details. Look at MSFS2020 for example, where you can decide if you want to fly a plane like a pilot or fly an arcade plane model.

Do you want to spend 200 hours and take a flight license? Be my guest. Want to take off and fly around in 5 minutes without even know what a yoke is? Go ahead. This is what games are about. And no... Nobody will "take away" your precious record online for your beloved fighting game, because if someone is able to beat you with a one button easy mode, while you spent 200 hours training in combos and such, then it means that you are not that good after all (and in facts, no tournament is ever won by people using aids in driving games, nor easy mode in fighting games, as proof that good players need to be good).

So this idea that someone has to put time into something to become good at by default, just to play a game, is not only ridiculous, but borderline archaic these days. You are not learning an instrument to go play a concert; you are playing a game to chill on a evening LOL

I put efforts in games as I find enjoyable to have a challenge; although if I have to work on a game as if it was a second job, or if it was something like a workout or similar, I prefer to invest my little spare time into something that require less efforts. There are plenty of games, if some games are not that accessible and aim at "hardcore" players, so be it... I will simply move on. Then if the devs made you their spokeperson and delegated you their decisions, please let me know, as it seems that yours is the final word on the matter I assume.

[Doctor_Akiba]

Now as for "who this game is for". The devs literally made Iron Saga playable in EVO Japan back in April this 2024 (I was there, that's how I got to first play it) because that is their core audience: the venn intersect of mecha fans who are hardcore fighting game players. People who grew up on the crazy indie fighting games that never made it out of Japan (or only just recently).

Yes, some fighting games are more accessible then others, but based on the demos, the devs don't seem to be focused on that. Classic mecha anime is niche, hardcore fighting games are niche. They're going for extra niche. Ease of access for first time players will be a steep learning curve.

If you come in here expecting SRTaisen/Scramble Commander menus, or the more conventional FromSoft ACE or AC controls, then don't expect to be able to achieve combat mastery in Iron Saga. This is a fighting game. Not a tactics game, not a third person mech sim, not a Gundam VS title. The controls in Iron Saga are much closer to a traditional fighting game than Gundam Battle Assault (which is actually a whole lot closer to a Naruto or Smash style controls but with some motion inputs and other typical 2D FG caveats). Sorry, if you are just a casual fighting game fan and a major fan of Nagai, Ishikawa, Obari, etc. then you will be sorely disappointed that this game isn't going to be instantly accessible unless you come in here with the right mindset for it. You need to be deeply invested in both.

"Training rooms" are a norm in FG titles. Providing various details like frame data, visuals for inputs, damage values, etc (depending on the game). You think that all of that is just to practice basic QCF+1 motions? Mashing the autocombo button? Training rooms exists because the developers expect its core audience to spend literal days in those modes learning the deepest and most subtle nuances of the game they painstakingly coded.

That being said, investing the literal hours and days learning the combat mechanics IS THE FUN of fighting games. This is the equivalent of being used to traditional cockpit controls and then suddenly being forced to pilot using the Mobile Trace System. It is a whole new system in itself that needs to be learned in full. You can't blindly button-spam in DMC or just mash the attack on Monster Hunter, so don't expect to be good at a fighting game without respecting and acknowledging the skill and time it needs.

At the very least be thankful they didn't adapt SNK's inputs.

Now if you really don't want to "spend days learning combos"... Then maybe you shouldn't be playing fighting games at all because that is literally what fighting games are all about. All you want to play is single player? Wait for the full game to release. Set the difficulty to easiest, then just button spam your way while praying for victory, and then enjoy the ending cutscenes - but don't complain about the difficulty of inputs or other such things when the inputs aren't even that difficult.

And no, not all games need a "ease of access" mode. Yes, some sims offer a "realistic" and "arcade" mode. Most don't. Take JR Train Simulator and Assetto Corsa -they are made for specific audiences. The audiences who want to invest time in a game that requires a time investment to learn.

Don't get me wrong. I'm busy. I'm old. I won't waste my time on a game that does not respect my time. There's a difference between that and a game that makes it worth it. There is no chore, no pointless grind. Learning and improving in a good fighting game is its own reward. If feels good to actually master the inputs and timing (even better than just memorizing and reacting to all the tells of a typical FromSoft boss fight). Iron Saga is not making pretenses about being a game for everyone to easily get into. This isn't Smash where the entry barrier is a whole lot more accessible (though Smash's mastery curve is just as steep as any other good fighting game).

[the yappiest cat]

90% of the stuff is quarter circles though? It's not like the game has some insane 90s SNK motion inputs, it's not like you're gonna have to do a pretzel motion or something. It's all very simple stuff so I'm really confused as to what "impossible" moves you might be referring to?

[orig4mi]

Look, I don't know how to tell you this any nicer than this, but this game's execution requirements are incredibly light. I would even argue that a basic SF6 drive rush into level 3 super has a higher execution barrier than anything that's in Iron Saga VS' combo trials. I don't believe for a second that you "play other fighting games" because you only have about 20 minutes in some of them, and 9 hours of SF6 is not enough to have a sufficient opinion on the execution barriers of fighting games. The moves in this game are not "impossible", you are just bad.

[Dobiqwolf]

Postat inițial de Numenorean:

Not sure who is this game aimed at, but I play other fighting games and some moves are really too much efforts. I hope they will have some sort of controls customization like other games do these days, as this game does not use the standard control method to do combos and super moves.

It looks great when you can chain some combos but for anything more complex it really get too much down to the timing and this is not ideal for people that really don't want to become proficient and just want to enjoy the game as occasional players.
Not talking to dumb down everything, but making a game accessible to everyone and hard to master is different from making it appeal only to dedicated fighter games fans... You can hit the middle ground with few options and everyone get to have fun as the game really looks and play great.

Looking forward to the full release

Did you try the auto-combo option?
If you did, what was your experience with it?
The most damaging combos require timing, this is not something that would be possible with auto-combos, keep that in mind.
Please note that the demo is aimed at testing online infrastructure and PvP, single player was not the focus.

[Orbister]

Postat inițial de Numenorean:

Postat inițial de Spicy Crab:

Your steam account says that you've only played Street Fighter 6 for 10 hours. I don't really think you can say that you "play" other fighting games.

Well, what does "casual play" means for you? 500 hours? :D
On steam I think I have 5-6 fighting games... SF6 is the one I played the most, mainly for the story mode; the rest of the games I play are on console (Guilty gear, Tekken, Blazeblue, DBFighters Z and others).

And no, I don't spend my days learning combos; I hop in, do the story mode, play a game for a bit and call the day; don't even play online. Now what... Am I not a player? Oh no!

What it means is that your opinion on the difficulty of execution of moves it not trustworthy. Because you, as you said yourself, do not put the effort to even learn the basics of the game. And i'm not hating on you here. In fact i believe fighting games should focus more on sigle player content since "competitive" content is much more work to do. However... as i said before i don't think you can actually say what is difficult or not if, by your own admition, do not engage enough with the game to learn the mechanics.

[Orbister]

Postat inițial de Numenorean:

Postat inițial de gurrenbuster:

This game only has quarter-circle moves, plus a couple half-circles, and a SINGLE z-input. I'm a rank amateur at fighting games and these are not hard inputs. Hard inputs are the air Hyper Viper Beam.

I was doing the training for few of the characters and could not even chain a couple of combos. Like the "super" for susanoo (I think that is the mech name?) which is a double half circle or something like that and could not get it once :D

Got some luck with Mazinger, and didn't try the others.

Double quarter circle supers are the most basic kind of supers in fighting games, if you can't even do one quarter circle then it's clearly a problem on your side, not the game's.

[Orbister]

Postat inițial de Numenorean:

Postat inițial de Spicy Crab:

Technically you are a player. But since you don't engage with fighting game's primary game mode, your opinion doesn't have value.

Well, if it does not have value for you; I guess I won't sleep at night.

Excuse me; gotta go to get some tissues to dry my tears

Not just for him, also for the developers. Double quarter circle supers are the most basic supers in fighting games and have been the most common one for literally decades, You are not the majority, you are an outlier.

[Orbister]

On a more positive note I recommend you try Tekken, most characters do not have an execution barrier. It's pretty fun.

[C.C.]

Postat inițial de Numenorean:

Postat inițial de Spicy Crab:

Your steam account says that you've only played Street Fighter 6 for 10 hours. I don't really think you can say that you "play" other fighting games.

Well, what does "casual play" means for you? 500 hours? :D

Postat inițial de Numenorean:

Postat inițial de Spicy Crab:

Your steam account says that you've only played Street Fighter 6 for 10 hours. I don't really think you can say that you "play" other fighting games.

Well, what does "casual play" means for you? 500 hours? :D
On steam I think I have 5-6 fighting games... SF6 is the one I played the most, mainly for the story mode; the rest of the games I play are on console (Guilty gear, Tekken, Blazeblue, DBFighters Z and others).

And no, I don't spend my days learning combos; I hop in, do the story mode, play a game for a bit and call the day; don't even play online. Now what... Am I not a player? Oh no!

you are a story enjoyer and thats fine but you dont really play fighting games lets be real. its not a shock you cant do combos. i was able to do the sword girls trials and use them in actual fights in around 20 minutes. im what the fgc would consider "casual." i have 750ish hours in sf6 so there ya go.

[D. Flame]

Try Hayate's throw in DOA, or Ivy's Summon Suffering in Soul Calibur.