What's with the hate? It's fun.

[Rataphract]

So, yeah. I'm enjoying it.

I mean, obviously games are subjective, and what one person enjoys another person might not, but I'm having fun passing the time with Massive Chalice. I will admit that I wasn't in on the Kickstarter, and I hadn't heard much about it before hand, so I'm not going into it with any expectations of things promised. I'm just going with what I see. If this thing was being sold as the GREATEST THING EVER YOU WILL NEVER WANT ANOTHER GAME, I can see that people might be annoyed, but...

Yeah. I like it. So what's going on?

[RockType]

There's both logical and illogical points against the game and the dev.

First, the Spacebase DF-9 debacle is kinda weighing down on Double Fine. They also have a history of poor management with projects, which matters because... I don't know. They've mostly been wasting their own money. The steam forum has been really charged since the beginning.

Just for the record, the game has delivered on all of the kickstarter promises, the backer rewards have been sent, and the game runs well and is generally pretty good. Oh, and the game is made by a different team than DF-9, and the EA project was well managed, so... a lot of misplaced hate here.

Second, the game very much resembles the new X-com, a popular older game that had a bigger budget and more developement time, and an active modding scene, and since this game isn't as good as X-com (at a third of the release price), a lot of people dismiss it entirely. X-com 2 was announced just now, and it looks great, or at least it will when we get some gameplay footage.

Lastly, the simple fact that this is a high-concept developed with a low budget and short time, and maybe a dev team that bit off more than they could chew. The game is good, but it isn't stellar, and all of the points of comparison are stellar. 8/10 isn't good enough for some. Even I noted in my review of the game that every playthrough features some boring parts. I do enjoy most aspects of the game, especially the aesthetics and combat, but there are flaws in the game.

So that would be the gist of it.

[Rataphract]

See. I'm a big fan of XCOM from way back, and I have to admit that I'm loving what Massive Chalice is doing to the formula. Is it simplified? Yes. But that doesn't seem to really hurt it, unless, I guess, if you were expecting something a lot chewier. You're right about there being a number of comparable games that are just a class above this, though I think the inventiveness here does a lot to offset that.

Didn't realize this was catching flak over the DF-9 thing. I really had high hopes for DF-9 too, but. Early Access is a gamble. Support what you hope for at a risk, in my view, or only buy it when it's done.

[MyFakeName]

I don't "hate" the game, I simply find it boring...

After the first five minutes it felt as if I'd seen and done everything and from then on all I'd be focused on is the inevitable repetition. The game lacks any depth...

I also found the combat absolutely mind-numbing, may as well play cookie-clicker...

[saluk]

I get not wanting to support another early access or kickstarter. But this game is finished. It shouldn't be lumped in with DF9. This project actually was managed well. And the game is finished, you aren't funding a project, you are buying a product. Or not. Don't buy it because you think it's not worth your money, or it isn't up your alley - fine. Don't buy it because you have decided not to give telltale money out of philisophical reasons - I can see that and it's your stance. But I see people not buying it because they don't trust telltale to finish the game... it's already finished!

And I would love to see a team that actually handled their kickstarter well, were COMPLETELY transparent about the process, and hit every milestone, be rewarded. It would send a message to the rest of the crew at telltale - anbd other crowdfunded projects - that they should follow this example. This is how it should be done.

[Rataphract]

Originally posted by カオス:

I don't "hate" the game, I simply find it boring...

After the first five minutes it felt as if I'd seen and done everything and from then on all I'd be focused on is the inevitable repetition. The game lacks any depth...

I also found the combat absolutely mind-numbing, may as well play cookie-clicker...

See. This is where that subjectivity comes in. I'm a big fan of the class remixing through breeding (Caberjacks with alchemist style exploding cabers are my current favourite), the enemies that start cropping up that do weird stuff like switch positions with your troops, yada yada. Figure out defensive formations, all that.

I enjoy all that. Maybe I'm just less smart than you, so I find it challenging.

[Foxbar]

The game is fun. People just have a hateboner for Double Fine. That's the Steam forums for ya.

[Mazey]

Originally posted by ApexHawk:

There's both logical and illogical points against the game and the dev.

First, the Spacebase DF-9 debacle is kinda weighing down on Double Fine. They also have a history of poor management with projects, which matters because... I don't know. They've mostly been wasting their own money. The steam forum has been really charged since the beginning.

Just for the record, the game has delivered on all of the kickstarter promises, the backer rewards have been sent, and the game runs well and is generally pretty good. Oh, and the game is made by a different team than DF-9, and the EA project was well managed, so... a lot of misplaced hate here.

Second, the game very much resembles the new X-com, a popular older game that had a bigger budget and more developement time, and an active modding scene, and since this game isn't as good as X-com (at a third of the release price), a lot of people dismiss it entirely. X-com 2 was announced just now, and it looks great, or at least it will when we get some gameplay footage.

Lastly, the simple fact that this is a high-concept developed with a low budget and short time, and maybe a dev team that bit off more than they could chew. The game is good, but it isn't stellar, and all of the points of comparison are stellar. 8/10 isn't good enough for some. Even I noted in my review of the game that every playthrough features some boring parts. I do enjoy most aspects of the game, especially the aesthetics and combat, but there are flaws in the game.

So that would be the gist of it.

Well said.
There are a lot of people who could get a dose of reality by reading this.

[Link]

Originally posted by Psychohead:

The game is fun. People just have a hateboner for Double Fine. That's the Steam forums for ya.

I'm so mad about Spacebase!!!1111

[MyFakeName]

Originally posted by JimTheDog:

I enjoy all that. Maybe I'm just less smart than you, so I find it challenging.

It has nothing to do with intelligence, I'm just accustomed to more options in combat. The same could be said for the gameplay outside of combat, the world is bland and predictable. Naturally this is subjective but you asked why some dislike the game, so I explained from my own persepctive...

[LASD]

Originally posted by カオス:

Originally posted by JimTheDog:

I enjoy all that. Maybe I'm just less smart than you, so I find it challenging.

It has nothing to do with intelligence, I'm just accustomed to more options in combat. The same could be said for the gameplay outside of combat, the world is bland and predictable. Naturally this is subjective but you asked why some dislike the game, so I explained from my own persepctive...

How long did you play? Did you get a second generation of heroes with hybrid classes? Or even a single level 4 hero or a Bulwark or a Cradle? There's a lot of options and things to react to in the combat. It's just not all thrown into your face in the start.

[BoNeZ]

Dont hate it, it is a nice game, love the art style on it, obviously copying Endless Dungeon/Legend etc.

Thing is for me it is again being released too early, it needs more mechanics, after the initial awe you realise there is nothing to do really, it needs more but being released regardless again.

[Burusagi]

The fact that you don't have a cover system. Or a flanking system. Or any tactical combat whatsoever - that's what's keeping me from buying the game.

It doesn't need to be "fantasy XCOM" or anything, but even old games like Final Fantasy Tactics realized the importance of flanking at least!

[Sai Kyouji]

Originally posted by カオス:

I don't "hate" the game, I simply find it boring...

After the first five minutes it felt as if I'd seen and done everything and from then on all I'd be focused on is the inevitable repetition. The game lacks any depth...

I also found the combat absolutely mind-numbing, may as well play cookie-clicker...

My hat is off to you if you managed to feel that from playing hard or brutal mode.

I on the other hand likes combat in this game. Each type of enemy has a way to screw you over:
Seed will suck your hp,
Lapse will suck your exp as well as stun your heroes occasionaly at the moment of its death
Bulwark will always try to hit at least 2 heroes in a row
Cradle wil try to AOE at least 2 heroes and they do all know how to use environment to their advantage. for example if there is an exploding red bubble near your heroes, rather than atking you, a Seed will instead atk the bubble for the explosion (meanwhile a Rupture will explode near your heroes AND the bubble, to screw you twice over).
I know those situations might as well be my own fault but ... who can ALWAYS be on their guard?

On the other hand, if you have only tried Normal mode, I am not even gonna say anything to that. I will just keep the word "Underachiever" to myself.

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

The fact that you don't have a cover system. Or a flanking system. Or any tactical combat whatsoever - that's what's keeping me from buying the game.

There is no cover system but there is line of sight and obstruction of sight that can be used to your advantage and stealth, that cannot be triggered once you have already spotted and can only be triggered onced you have escaped from sight

There is no flanking but there are
Pushing to cause damage to multiple targets at once and stun them
Exploding bubbles
Enemy friendly fire
Motolov cocktail
Relics to be passed down
Potions
Blood sucking weapon
and more

Dont misunderstand me. I appreciate those things you mentioned just as much. I just appreciate other things, too.

[RockType]

Yeah, there's more to combat than just standing in the open like a lemon.

-You can take advantage of enemy sight lines and hide behind objects to get the iniative.

-You can knock enemies around to stun and hurt, as well as bring them into AoE range

-There's some customization depending on your items (though the limitation of one slot restricts this a bit on the higher difficulties)

-Different environment objects that provide tactical options (exploding, raising evasion, knocking around, cover..)

-There's a stealth for hunters.

I actually found the combat a stronger point than the strategic gameplay. The skill system is also very well done.

My biggest complaint about the combat is that on brutal, stunning becomes a bit too mandatory, and I would have liked some options to dealing with high-health enemies before level 6.

[Sai Kyouji]

Originally posted by ApexHawk:

My biggest complaint about the combat is that on brutal, stunning becomes a bit too mandatory, and I would have liked some options to dealing with high-health enemies before level 6.

hahaha :v
Just think of brutal as climbing Mount Everest without any clothes.

Most people laugh at the idea. Most people would not even try. Some would try and fail. One person succeeded it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_Hof)